ATF Classifies SS109 and M855 as Armor Piercing

[1LtCAP 4,264]

meh. the panic will pass again. i just can't believe that people act like a bunch of pavlovian dogs with this shit.

 

 it's like bread, milk and gas. it snows, and people panic.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Washington Fraternal Order of Police says M855 historically not a threat:

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/police-say-obama-bullet-ban-isnt-needed-ar-15-round-isnt-a-threat/article/2560964

 

 

 

"Any ammunition is of concern to police in the wrong hands, but this specific round has historically not posed a law enforcement problem,” said James Pasco, executive director of the Washington office of the Fraternal Order of Police, the world’s largest organization of sworn law enforcement officers, with more than 325,000 members.

 

He told Secrets that the round used mostly for target practice “is not typically used against law enforcement.”

 

While he said that he is “not finding fault” with the surprise move last month by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to classify the round as “armor piercing” and then ban it, Pasco added, “While this round will penetrate soft body armor, it has not historically posed a threat to law enforcement."

[CMJeepster 2,778]

"Sensenbrenner Bill Would Abolish ATF Over Bullet Ban"  http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/sensenbrenner-bill-bullet-ban-abolish/2015/03/05/id/628598/

[mipafox 438]

meh. the panic will pass again. i just can't believe that people act like a bunch of pavlovian dogs with this shit.

 

it's like bread, milk and gas. it snows, and people panic.

There is bread, milk, and gas in the stores when the snow storm is over. There's not going to be much ammo for a long time, and certainly not at a good price. Not to mention M855, which will go away forever (many like it). So I'd say the people that panicked have been proven to have had good reason.

[45Doll 5,877]

Apparently the 'Comment Period' was just a snow job. They decided last year to ban them no matter what anyone said. See the following story, but take note of the note at the end where dates are corrected from 2014 to 2015, to make more sense.

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761

[mipafox 438]

 

Apparently the 'Comment Period' was just a snow job. They decided last year to ban them no matter what anyone said. See the following story, but take note of the note at the end where dates are corrected from 2014 to 2015, to make more sense.

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761

 

 

Apparently they didn't read the letter from the ATF - the letter in which the ban and the comment period was announced? The ATF already said the decision was already made.

 

"ATF recognizes that this ammunition is widely available to the public. Because it is legally permissible to possess armor piercing ammunition under current law, withdrawing the exemption will not place individuals in criminal possession of armor piercing ammunition. However, with few exceptions, manufacturers will be unable to produce such armor piercing ammunition, importers will be unable to import such ammunition, and manufacturers and importers will be prohibited from selling or distributing the ammunition. ATF is specifically soliciting comments on how it can best implement withdrawal of this exemption while minimizing disruption to the ammunition and firearm industry and maximizing officer safety."

[CMJeepster 2,778]

What are they going to do about the rounds already sold and in storage?

[Scorpio64 5,156]

What are they going to do about the rounds already sold and in storage?

That's what I'd like to know too.  If the ban is already in effect, how are retailers still selling it?

[mipafox 438]

It applies to manufacturers and importers for sure. For example, I think (I don't really know) Wideners is an importer.

 

It doesn't seem to apply to retailers. Further, keep in mind, there is no FFL required to sell ammo in America. But FFLs do have requirements to follow when they sell ammo.

 

The ATF announcement said it is still legal to own. However, many states have laws banning "AP" ammo and if the ATF says it is that may be good enough for a long jail term.

 

Of course, they can change all of that tomorrow. Since M855 does not even meet the definition of AP under federal law, and the ATF did not comply with the Administrative Procedures Act. What they are doing is illegal 6 ways from Sunday. They can do whatever they want.

[NickySantoro 211]

Interesting thread that begs an equally interesting question. When Byron Todd Jones, the political hack who heads up the ATF, leaves his Obamessiah's office, does he spit or swallow ?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Withdrawal of the exemption under the guise of "Officer Safety"??? Unless LEO's have taken to wearing hard-plate body armor a regular .223/5.56 round will easily penetrate the soft body armor normally worn - are they going to ban those next?? This is just the next increment in the gun-banner's agenda.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[45Doll 5,877]

Hey, everybody chill. It was all just a 'publishing mistake'.

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/07/atf-calls-stripping-exemption-for-ar15-green-tip-ammo-a-publishing-mistake-n1967168

 

Your voice will still count. Right?

[Screwball 483]

Hey, everybody chill. It was all just a 'publishing mistake'.

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/07/atf-calls-stripping-exemption-for-ar15-green-tip-ammo-a-publishing-mistake-n1967168

 

Your voice will still count. Right?

Yes and no...

 

The mistake was information that the ATF put out that said the M855 exemption was revoked (meaning it was banned). They are still looking to make it illegal.

 

It is not over yet... don't consider it a victory.

[45Doll 5,877]

No cheering here. I was being sarcastic. They're just trying to put a good face on, like the NJ Assembly Committee.

 

Remember "we'll hear the testimony after we vote"?

[Carcano 14]

Good thing I no longer shoot 556

 

308 only in semi-autos.

 

I feel bad for AR owners but did you not see this coming? AR pistols have been on the market for years now.

[Carcano 14]

meh. the panic will pass again. i just can't believe that people act like a bunch of pavlovian dogs with this shit.

 

 it's like bread, milk and gas. it snows, and people panic.

 

Not buying into the BS again, plenty of M855 is floating around.

 

I still get cans of Chinese steel core 7.62x39, sure I pay twice as much per round as people did in the 90's but it still exists...

 

And if you reload you can still find loose bulk green tip bullets on gunbroker...sure it would be illegal to manufacturer but hard to prove if you used mil-surplus brass.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Looks like we won this round.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/10/atf-shelves-controversial-bullet-ban-proposal/

[T Bill 649]

Guess the price will drop now until the next time something stupid happens.  Still I believe the bullet's days are numbered.  It will come back in a different form somehow, liberals always find a way, especially our exalted ruler!

[falcone 89]

It's good news for now. But they will try it again. 0boma still has two years in office and then Hillary after that.

[Carcano 14]

It's good news for now. But they will try it again. 0boma still has two years in office and then Hillary after that.

 

It will not pass, the response ATF got over this was incredible.

[WP22 1,558]

 Eight thousand comments out of 80 to 100 million gun owners and around 4.5 million NRA members? Sorry, I would call that a pittance, not incredible.

 

[M1152 713]

Looks like we won this round. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/10/atf-shelves-controversial-bullet-ban-proposal/

thanks for the update

[DeerSlayer 241]

You got 10K, put 5K on gun Broker. I would. Ask Mexican cartel Coyote prices and see how many fools you can get in the truck.

There go my dreams of a vacation home in Belize, funded by selling my stock pile of green tips

[Carcano 14]

NRA email I just got:

 

BREAKING NEWS: NRA Forces Obama to Wave White Flag on Proposed Ammo Ban … For Now

Fairfax, Va. – The National Rifle Association (NRA) was instrumental in stalling the Obama Administration’s initial attempt to ban commonly used ammunition for the most popular rifle in America, the AR-15. The announcement that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) will suspend its proposed framework to ban M855 ammunition validates the NRA’s assertion that this effort was nothing more than a political maneuver to bypass Congress and impose gun control on the American people. 

"Today’s announcement proves what we have said all along – this was 100% political. President Obama failed to pass gun control through Congress, so he tried to impose his political agenda through executive fiat. But every gun owner in America needs to understand Barack Obama’s hatred of the Second Amendment has not changed," said Wayne La Pierre, Executive Vice President of the National Rifle Association. 

Chris Cox, Executive Director of NRA-ILA criticized the dishonest campaign to ban this common ammunition: “The lies used to justify the ban were shameful. This proposal was never about law enforcement safety – it was about the Obama Administration’s desire to pander to billionaire Michael Bloomberg and his gun control groups.  Since they haven’t been able to ban America’s most popular rifle, they are trying to ban the ammunition instead.”

Since the BATFE announced its plan to ban commonly used ammunition less than a month ago, the NRA rallied its five million members and tens of millions of supporters across the country in strong opposition.  In addition, the NRA worked with congressional leaders in both the U.S. House and Senate to oppose this misguided proposal.  

“The NRA would like to thank House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley and House Commerce, Justice, Science Appropriations Subcommittee Chairman John Culberson for leading the fight against this unconstitutional attack on our Second Amendment freedoms,” continued Cox.  “This was a significant victory for our five million members and tens of millions of supporters across the country. 

“Make no mistake, this fight is not over. We will remain vigilant and continue to fight against President Obama’s attempt to dismantle the Second Amendment,” concluded LaPierre.

To view the congressional letters to BATFE, along with the Member signatures, click here and here.

To view recent op-ed in the Daily Caller by Chris Cox on the proposed ammunition ban, click here.

[jackandjill 683]

 Eight thousand comments out of 80 to 100 million gun owners and around 4.5 million NRA members? Sorry, I would call that a pittance, not incredible.

I agree, but we cannot even afford that pittance in NJ. By the same percentage, NJ should have atleast 8000 2A supporters who care to let Govt know.

I have never seen 8000 proponents show up in NJ to oppose ridiculous laws like OGAM, Pistol Permits, FPID or force to bring ccw.

 

At the end of the day, it may (or may not be) the 80K that mattered. May be its Senators and others from political spectrum writing in too.

[mipafox 438]

Anybody wanna buy some M855? Please?

[1LtCAP 4,264]

well since it's only a temporary reprieve, i guess the panic'll continue, as people continue to pay outrageous prices for this stuff.

 

 weren't they gonna ban ar's all together in the 94awb?

 

 what everyone seems to forget......and these clowns(atf)seem to fail to even realize, is that for every roadblock they throw up, a number of :"workarounds" happen.

[Carcano 14]

Anybody wanna buy some M855? Please?

 

Mipa Ranch still has some in stock? are they bad rounds or something?

[mipafox 438]

Mipa Ranch still has some in stock? are they bad rounds or something?

Actually, if you are looking for floor sweepings, I do have a can of 2006ish XM855PD

[Carcano 14]

Actually, if you are looking for floor sweepings, I do have a can of 2006ish XM855PD

 

Isn't that the stuff that said "TRAINING USE ONLY" on the box?