Jump to content
High Exposure

USG Sues L3 for Fraud over EOTech issues

Recommended Posts

This is my shocked face.

 

Of course people will still defend their choice in optic - no one like to admit the have an ugly baby - hopefully this will keep new purchases from disappointing recreational shooters and endangering people that carry rifles for a living.

 

In "unrelated" news :rofl: FBI HRT has switched to Aimpoints.

 

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/24/us-government-sues-l3-communications-for-fraud-involving-eotech-sights/

 

US Government Sues L3 Communications for Fraud Involving EOTech Sights

 

We can finally tell you the rest of the story regarding L3 Communications’ EOTech Sights. The Department of Justice has been investigating EOTech for some time and has finally filed suit (US v. L-3 Communications EOTech Inc., 15-cv-09262) in US District Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).

 

Specifically, the Government’s allegations concentrate on the performance of the Holographic Weapon Sights at temperature extremes as well as in high moisture environments. The Government also claims that EOTEch failed to disclose testing that demonstrated the inaccuracy issues in those environments.

 

In addition to naming L-3 and EOTech as defendants in the Government’s suit, they also named EOTech’s president, Paul Mangano which isn’t very common. They are seeking unspecified triple damages plus civil penalties of as much as $11,000 for each fraudulent claim.

 

L-3 has been aware of the pending action, having mentioned the issue in their July 2015 SEC filing as well as setting aside $26 million.

5CAA0AE7-A534-40A1-AAF3-09534E537359_zps

 

ETA: Earlier topic on EOTech issues and a safety notice to all USG users:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/78404-ussocom-issues-safety-of-use-message-for-eotech/page-3#entry997216

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think both Eotech's and Aimpoint's suck.  Irons or ACOG are all that I like.  Of course this is just personal preference.  I have owned both Eotech's and Aimpoint's, no use for them.  They provide me nothing that irons can't do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think both Eotech's and Aimpoint's suck. Irons or ACOG are all that I like. Of course this is just personal preference. I have owned both Eotech's and Aimpoint's, no use for them. They provide me nothing that irons can't do.

That's fair. Based on your avatar I assume you were/are USMC so you have your frame of reference.

 

I prefer RDS (Aimpoint in particular) over irons and ACOGs all day long.

 

In my experience, there are a great many things that a RDS can do faster, more accurately, and from a greater variety of positions, environmental conditions, and gear loadouts, than irons or ACOGs are capable of.

 

But that's a conversation for another topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little more info. Looks like L3 voluntarily settled...

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TD27U20151124

 

Military contractor L-3 pays $25.6 million to settle U.S. fraud lawsuit

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - L-3 Communications Holdings Inc agreed to pay $25.6 million to settle a lawsuit accusing the military contractor of defrauding the U.S. government by selling thousands of holographic weapon sights that it knew were defective.

 

Tuesday's settlement resolves civil claims that L-3 and its EOTech unit violated the federal False Claims Act by concealing defects that caused the sights to fail in extreme cold or humidity, including one defect that was hidden for 8-1/2 years.

 

Also known as combat optical sights, the sights are mounted on weapons and used by special operations forces and law enforcement to target and accurately return fire in extreme environmental conditions, according to papers filed by U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara in Manhattan federal court.

 

Bharara said New York-based L-3 hid the defects from the Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security and FBI, even as it sold them tens of millions of dollars of the sights beginning in 2004. He also said L-3 touted the military's use of its products to improve its image and boost commercial sales.

 

In a statement, L-3 said it cooperated fully with the government and is pleased to settle. The company previously set aside money for the accord, which requires court approval.

 

Bharara's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

Shares of L-3 fell as much as 6.1 percent to $118.30 after the lawsuit was filed, but before the settlement became public.

 

In afternoon trading, the shares were down $2.37, or 1.9 percent, at $123.65 on the New York Stock Exchange.

 

The case is U.S. v. L-3 Communications EOTech Inc et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, No. 15-09262.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those interested, Soldier Systems has published the actual settlement documents as a .pdf :

 

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/27/the-l-3-communications-settlement-with-the-us-government-over-fraud-charges-stemming-from-eotech-holographic-weapon-sights/

 

According to this paper work, the known/concealed Eotech zero drift, due to temperature change, was as much as 6 MOA in the carbine/rifle optics, and up to 12 MOA in the support/indirect fire weapon optics!

 

Parallax shift at 32 degrees Fahrenheit was 12 MOA, and at 5 degrees Fahrenheit it was 20 MOA!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude, you should hear the shitstorm this is causing. I can't tell you how many guys are getting in trouble for sending this info up the chain of command in Emails or writing safety memos to their admin.

 

The "leaders" don't want to know about any of this. Their attitude is akin to "Ignorance is bliss", and apparently they think it negates liability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

honestly the fact that my Pro is always on and ready (setting #7) is a huge selling point.  3 spare batteries at 30,000 hours each in my PG compartment and I'm good for 9 more years.  can't beat that

 

the comp m4 is looking pretty sweet too at 80,000 hours

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the messed up part I learned about today.

 

L3/EoTech knew all about the loss of zero issue, but they kept it to themselves for years for fear of being dropped from SOPMOD II.

 

They recently figured out how to fix the issue in old models and produce new optics without the problem.

 

Then they tried to sell the fix to Uncle Sam as an upgrade. :facepalm:

 

"I'll take 'What are Ethics?' for $1000 Alex."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to excuse L3 or anything, but I'm going to say something slightly unpopular: the consumer is partially at fault here as well. 

 

How in the the name of your favorite deity did we get to the point was this was not properly tested by the military, we are not talking about extreme temps here, were are talking about a cold fall day in NJ. Once the military bought them and deployed them, someone somewhere must have noticed they can hit for shit between say .. November and March, and may have mentioned that up the chain.

 

In fact from the court documents it seems that Crane knew about this for some time, the "improvement" HE mentions was proposed in 2008, but this hasn't come to light until 2015 when the FBI bothered to turn on one of these things during a particular quarter of the year and ask "Yo, wtf?".  Anyone wonder if anyone lost their life between 2008 and 2015 because of this? Is the US Government complicit in those death?

 

And for the civilian consumer ... I'm having a very hard time feeling bad about it. I mean sure, you were taken for a ride and that is bad and unethical, but people have been telling you for decades these things shit the bed a lot more then they should.  The crap quality of eotech has been an open friking secret, but some how the consumer chose to buy the hype and the marketing glossies and ignore all the warning. No, I'm not saying you deserved to have been raped for wearing a short skirt, but getting into the creepy van and drinking that "awesome flavored' vodka from the unmarked container is not smart either.

 

Call me names if you want, but when picking bits of kit that your life may depend on (in the case of the Mil/Leo the lives or many) you need to test the crap out of it make up your own mind, because how the hell does this happen?  I'll bet you a lawyer somewhere is looking through old papers right now to figure out if a hostage somewhere was ever hurt buy a LEO using a Eotech as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Call me names if you want, but when picking bits of kit that your life may depend on (in the case of the Mil/Leo the lives or many) you need to test the crap out of it make up your own mind, because how the hell does this happen?  

 

it's hard to "test the crap" out of stuff we buy.  so the best thing we can do is research most times.  but it seems there was plenty of open information on the issues with eotech that weren't present with the aimpoint, but then again, you can't get a micro t1 in the newest call of duty i suppose.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



  • AlderferBanner.jpg

  • Supporting Vendors

  • Latest Topics

  • Similar Content

    • By liquidrazer
      Hello All,
       
      I own 2 eotech HWS (xps2-0 and xps2-2) and am curious if anyone has experienced thermal drift issues with their sights. Long story short, I have noticed that my eotechs will not hold zero from range trip to range trip. At 100 yards I cannot hit a 12”wide by 14” tall (guesstimate) steel torso when aiming at center mass. When I co-witness the eotech and foldable irons I can clearly see that the eotech zero has changed. Both my eotechs have this issue and sadly the newer one has a bigger issue with thermal drift than my older one. I never noticed the thermal drift issue until I joined cherry ridge and was able to shoot at 100 yards regularly when I used to only shoot at 25 yards.
       
      Which leads me to my question.
       
      Has any1 pursued legal action against eotech in NJ? Or is there a class action lawsuit in NJ? I am sure ppl have heard or seen http://www.eotechlawsuit.com/ and am wondering if anyone has contacted them or similar attorney/law office ect.
       
      I know they have a refund/repair but this is a HUGE issue and I believe they should not get a free pass by using their refund loophole.
       
       
      Extra credit question.
      What is everyone using in place of an eotech? IE a 1x sight.
       
    • By AlexTheSane
      LAPoliceGear has a 12% off coupon code for Eotech sights.
       
      XPS2 comes out to $439.11 with free shipping.
       
      http://www.lapolicegear.com/eotech.html
       
      Code EOTECH12
    • By Bugsy732
      So i finally got to take "Krystal", my Umbrella Corp. build to the range yesterday. Robs609 and my self helped Firearms Training Sepulveda Firearms Training film some instructional videos at Shooters last night. While Robs609 got to shoot her more than i did, i was able to pop off a few rounds and give a quick test to the Umbrella Corp BCG and SSA trigger i installed yesterday. Rob, Kharis and myself agree... the SSA Trigger is where it's at! So much smoother and tighter than the Spikes Battle Trigger i had in there before.
       
      shot about 50 rounds w/no FTF or FTE with the new Umbrella BCG. More info on that after i get some more trigger time on her.
       
      anyway, here are a few photos and vids from yesterday.. check out that muzzle flash! lol
       
       


       
       
       
       


       
       
       
      Thanks to ROBS609 for being our designated shooter for the videos.
       
      anyway, thought we would share!
    • By Howi
      So for the most part I'm finished with my first ar. I'm still struggling with what optic to put on it. I am a good shot with iron sights out to 500 and went with the a2 upper and flip rear so I would always have that option. That being said I'd like to be spoiled and get an optic with a little magnification. I'm used to the trijicon rco with a chevron, but at 1100-1300 dollars I'm open for suggestions lol. I was also looking at eo tech holo sight with a magnifier, but seeing as I have never used one its lost on me. (I know they can be equally expensive, but I'm not so much worried about price as I am quality and applicability)
       
      Some key points:
      -target acquisition. Short and long
      -durability (not gonna treat this rifle like a new born)
      -how well it holds a zero
      -if talking about optics using batteries please at least estimate battery life
       
      Thanks for any suggestions or input/personal experience
       
      -Jim
  • Posts

×
×
  • Create New...