Displaced Texan

Night vision experts...talk to me

24 posts in this topic

This trip to the ranch has emphasized my need to see in the dark.

 

My preference is to have a clip on device. Something that I can use in front of my existing ACOG, but I am not opposed to setting up a dedicated rifle with a weapons sight.

 

The other question is, night vision or thermal??

 

I have seen some suitable weapons sights from ATN, both in thermal and digital NVS.

 

Main use is night hunting for hogs and predators.

 

Share your knowledge base, please!!

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I'll be following this thread because I'm interested as well.

Just got the can for my 300BO and it sounds like a loud air rifle.

I've looked at Armasight and entry level Gen I is 500 bucks but comes with IR.

 

Let's see what you guys think.

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An ACOG is not really designed to work with NODS. The only device I know of that is ACOG compatible is the Knights UNS SR and you are talking $6000-$8000.

 

I have heard that some people have had success mounting a PVS14 behind an ACOG, but you will deal with terrible image quality, parallax and eye relief issues, and shifting zero.

 

One of the other guys may know something else, but if i were you and planning on dropping coin investong in quality NODS, I would get a more appropriate optic as well,

 

Another concerns is an IR flood that will work at the ranges your magnified optic will let you engage.

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Gentlemen,

 

Don't skimp on NODS. You will be disappointed and angry.

 

Avoid Russian and 2nd gen tubes. You will not be pleased and will have wasted money.

 

If it is in Sportsman's guide, or cheaper than dirt don't look twice at it. EGAY and Amazon is buyer beware. If it looks too good to be true, it is. Lots of Chinese knockoffs.

 

Expect to pay north of $2000 for a quality, but basic NOD.

 

I get all my stuff from TNVC. Quality gear, good prices, excellent customer support.

 

Personally, I think a PVS 14 is the most versatile and affordable NOD out there and is the best selection for a casual user.

 

Old School,

 

Most NODS that are quality and affordable are only image enhancers and they have no integral aiming device. You need to either mount them to a weapon behind or in front of an optic of some kind or mount to your head and have an IR laser or modified TTP for deployment. Both have pluses and minuses with head mounted and an IR laser being the better option of the two.

 

I PMd both of you my number if you want to all and chat about it

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Ok then, a dedicated weapons sight may be the best option. Skip the Russian or Gen 2. Gen 3 or better.

 

Still begs the question, NVS or thermal?? And why?

 

 

I wouldn't have missed that damn coyote last night had I been using sort of night vision. I'm a little pissed about boffing that shot.

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Ok then, a dedicated weapons sight may be the best option. Skip the Russian or Gen 2. Gen 3 or better.

 

Still begs the question, NVS or thermal?? And why?

 

 

I wouldn't have missed that damn coyote last night had I been using sort of night vision. I'm a little pissed about boffing that shot.

I would go with traditional IR NODs.

 

I don't have a lot of experience with thermal. I do know this:

Thermal is much more expensive.

 

Thermal can't see through insulators such as glass, so they are useless trying to look in or out through a car or house window.

 

Thermal does make living animals stand out pretty well but you lose some definition.

 

Also, depth perception goes right out the window with NODs. It is very difficult to estimate distance looking through a NOD tube.

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Maybe a hand held PVS-14 system for search, and a dedicated weapons sight for targeting. In a hunting situation, I'd hate to be swinging the rifle around to search for targets. That could be very awkward for several reasons.

 

This looks like this could expensive fast. My wife is gonna HATE that....

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I would go with traditional IR NODs.

 

I don't have a lot of experience with thermal. I do know this:

Thermal is much more expensive.

 

Thermal can't see through insulators such as glass, so they are useless trying to look in or out through a car or house window.

 

Thermal does make living animals stand out pretty well but you lose some definition.

 

Also, depth perception goes right out the window with NODs. It is very difficult to estimate distance looking through a NOD tube.

 

This is untrue.  A good friend and business associate has several FLIR thermal cameras that he uses for imaging hot spots on electrical panels and power plants on ships.  One night, about 15 years ago, at his office, we were messing with one of the high end ($25Kish) cameras.  Looking through a glass window at the street and sidewalk, we could see the thermal tire tracks, hot engines, transformers and even footprints on the sidewalk after someone walked by the office.

 

Now, we were inside looking out, I cannot attest to how it works from the outside looking into a window.  Though I don't imagine many coyotes live indoors.

 

Thermal rifle scopes may not have a large enough or very sensitive pickup, but thermal imaging is very capable of seeing through windows, at least from inside to outside.

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I have a Gen1 4x ATN (I believe) that I got for airsoft.  If I could use it to 150 feet, I'd be surprised.  It has a built-in IR illuminator, and I added another 3W or 5W LED IR light which helps the range a bit...  Resolution is pretty poor, outdoors with a lot of branches in the way is fairly problematic (foreground branches are super illuminated because of the IR lights, while anything beyond a few feet is still dark, and unless there's a lot of ambient light (moon), you HAVE to use the IR illuminator), but in wider open areas it works well enough within its limitations.  It works quite well in dark warehouses.  Mine has a cap with a tiny aperture that you can use in bright areas to filter out bright lights that could damage the tube - but it is also useful for navigating closeup with the IR on - it "changes" the minimum focus distance and allows you to navigate inside a house, for example.

 

I refuse to use a Gen2 or better device because it will spoil the one I have for me.

 

I did not have high expectations for a Gen1 scope.  My scope does exceed *my* expectations for my uses, but I also do not have delusions that it is anything special at all.  For any serious work at all, unless conditions are PERFECT (like some moonlight) - a Gen1 is worthless.  I'd look at a Gen2+ or better if I were doing anything serious and it weren't just a toy for me.  I don't know if you know anyone who has one, take a look through theirs and see what it is like.  I'd try a Gen2, Gen3, digital?, and/or thermal and get a feel for the differences...

 

BTW, I saw someone came out with a micro thermal for pretty cheap, it seemed like an interesting way to get you in the ballpark if mounted with another, better scope.  Found it....  http://tplogic.com/thermal-solutions/t12/

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The NV monocular I recommend is the Night Enforcer (NE) / PVS-14 by Harris (formerly ITT / Exelis). Harris has the Omnibus contract to supply the Army-Navy (AN) / PVS-14 to the U.S. Military, and the NE/PVS-14 is produced in the same assembly facilities with the same component sourcing as the AN/PVS-14. The only difference between the NE/PVS-14 and AN/PVS-14 Is that the latter has to complete U.S. Military acceptance testing to officially confirm it as "mil-spec".

 

The NE/PVS-14 is Gen 3 Pinnacle, Autogated by default. Meaning, you will not get screwed with Gen 2 intensifiers if you buy genuine NE/PVS-14 monoculars. Pricing is about $3,800 each, but LE can usually gain discounted pricing. The Harris / Exelis / ITT warranty on the NE/PVS-14 intensifier is an awesome 5 years - nobody else offers a warranty like that, and on the intensifier tube itself.

 

Quick detach mounts are available to allow you to rapidly swap the NE/PVS-14 between your head mount and rifle rail mount. Just know that you will not want to use the NE/PVS-14 on any rifle chambered for anything greater than .223 / 5.56x45mm otherwise the recoil will eventually damage the intensifier tube (e.g. 'shaken baby' syndrome, literally).

 

I still consider thermal imaging to be a supplement to light-intensified (i^2) night vision. Thermal imagers are principally best for the detection of warm bodies; but there are many environmental and climate conditions that can drastically reduce thermal contrast and detail which makes identification and navigation with them difficult to impossible. Plus, thermal scopes cannot see (sense, detect) through glass or water generally. It reall depend on how the glass filters certain wavelengths

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I like the idea of the PVS-14. It seems to be the best bang for the buck unit out there.

 

I'm trying to figure how best to incorporate this unit into a weapons sight.

I have 4x32 ACOGs, which I am not sure they would be best combined with he PVS-14.

Also have a Trijicon SRS.

 

If it was your rifle(presuming a 5.56mm AR) and your $$, how would you set it up?

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On 3/22/2017 at 1:56 PM, Displaced Texan said:

I like the idea of the PVS-14. It seems to be the best bang for the buck unit out there.

 

I'm trying to figure how best to incorporate this unit into a weapons sight.

I have 4x32 ACOGs, which I am not sure they would be best combined with he PVS-14.

Also have a Trijicon SRS.

 

If it was your rifle(presuming a 5.56mm AR) and your $$, how would you set it up?

If it was me I would put an ir laser on your rifle and use helmet mounted or head mounted nv.  The laser and flood on a good unit will go out way further than you will be shooting.  The laser and illuminator on my dbal a2 at high power are crisp past 1k yards.

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