NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[Malaka 4]

30 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

 

Regardless of what the government wants, why would you want to carry a gun that you can't shoot accurately?

The purpose is to be able to hit the aggressor in order to make them discontinue their attack - either through making it too painful for them to continue, or physically unable to continue. Missing your target is not effective at either of those things and endangers anyone else in the area. It just doesn't make sense.

There are very few handguns that are mechanically unable to shoot an 12" wide group at 25 yards - that's works out to be over 48moa! Seriously, it is not the gun.

Edited after measuring a Q target. The milk bottle is 12" wide, not 18".

Rule of 3s

I hope you won't try to defend against a attacker at 25 yards even with a full size. You won't ever perform as well as you do in the range. That's the true danger of missing the target. Like I tell my friends, your better off fleeing or fixing that distance before ever trying to engage anything at a far distance. We can't all be like that mall hero who took a shot at 40 yards. He did miss a few btw.

Mechanically secured in a vise, of course the handgun is absolutely capable of accuracy. But a 2 inch barrel in a hand, maybe in movies but not realistically expected.

[Vdep217 63]

14 minutes ago, Malaka said:

Rule of 3s

I hope you won't try to defend against a attacker at 25 yards even with a full size. You won't ever perform as well as you do in the range. That's the true danger of missing the target. Like I tell my friends, your better off fleeing or fixing that distance before ever trying to engage anything at a far distance. We can't all be like that mall hero who took a shot at 40 yards. He did miss a few btw.

Mechanically secured in a vise, of course the handgun is absolutely capable of accuracy. But a 2 inch barrel in a hand, maybe in movies but not realistically expected.

U are correct about being engaged and fire back but we need to be the best we can under good conditions.  Even shooting some uspa matches will help.  But your comment about a 2 inch barrel I can hit 50 out of 50 on a qu target at 50 yrds with my taurus ultralite 38.  Practice practice and practice some more.

[124gr9mm 859]

23 minutes ago, Malaka said:

I hope you won't try to defend against a attacker at 25 yards even with a full size.

You don't get to choose the distance, the bad guy does.

If you're using 25 yards as your boundary for what's practical (or not) to shoot accurately then I'd suggest spending more time at the range.

Targets for Bullseye matches are at 25 yards (and 50 when space permits I believe), and action shooting matches (thought typically 5 - 15 yards) frequently have them setup at 25 yards.

If you can't consistently/comfortably hit a target at 25 yards with a small gun then keep moving to a bigger one until you can. 

For what it's worth, I think qualifications for a Constitutional Right should not happen, but I also think a responsible gun owner should be well practiced with any gun that's owned.

 

[High Exposure 5,664]

[Malaka 4]

49 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

You don't get to choose the distance, the bad guy does.

If you're using 25 yards as your boundary for what's practical (or not) to shoot accurately then I'd suggest spending more time at the range.

Targets for Bullseye matches are at 25 yards (and 50 when space permits I believe), and action shooting matches (thought typically 5 - 15 yards) frequently have them setup at 25 yards.

If you can't consistently/comfortably hit a target at 25 yards with a small gun then keep moving to a bigger one until you can. 

For what it's worth, I think qualifications for a Constitutional Right should not happen, but I also think a responsible gun owner should be well practiced with any gun that's owned.

 

This is no competition or calm day at the range. Chances are you're gonna be ambushed at 3 yards. That's just how these situations go. Police officers may be engaging someone at a distance like 25 yards and with their training, oh boy do they miss.

I'd suggest taking a step away from confidence and realizing that reality isn't gonna be a still paper target with hearing protection and a prepared mind. I hope no one ever gets into a self defense situation but don't be so hard on yourself when you may miss. Maybe take some self defense classes and practice how to deal with a situation. Sometimes that is more important than accuracy. 

[124gr9mm 859]

3 minutes ago, Malaka said:

This is no competition or calm day at the range. Chances are you're gonna be ambushed at 3 yards. That's just how these situations go. Police officers may be engaging someone at a distance like 25 yards and with their training, oh boy do they miss.

I'd suggest taking a step away from confidence and realizing that reality isn't gonna be a still paper target with hearing protection and a prepared mind. I hope no one ever gets into a self defense situation but don't be so hard on yourself when you may miss. Maybe take some self defense classes and practice how to deal with a situation. Sometimes that is more important than accuracy. 

Your mindset is just very different than mine.

I compete in action shooting matches (indoor and outdoor), take training classes, as well as punching paper at the range.

It seems like you simply practice to be good enough to deal with an ambush at 3 yards.  While it's better then nothing I suppose, to me it's a limiting mindset.

I'd suggest you step away from 'good enough' and train more.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 hour ago, Malaka said:

Rule of 3s

I hope you won't try to defend against a attacker at 25 yards even with a full size. You won't ever perform as well as you do in the range. That's the true danger of missing the target. Like I tell my friends, your better off fleeing or fixing that distance before ever trying to engage anything at a far distance. We can't all be like that mall hero who took a shot at 40 yards. He did miss a few btw.

Mechanically secured in a vise, of course the handgun is absolutely capable of accuracy. But a 2 inch barrel in a hand, maybe in movies but not realistically expected.

 

9 minutes ago, Malaka said:

This is no competition or calm day at the range. Chances are you're gonna be ambushed at 3 yards. That's just how these situations go. Police officers may be engaging someone at a distance like 25 yards and with their training, oh boy do they miss.

I'd suggest taking a step away from confidence and realizing that reality isn't gonna be a still paper target with hearing protection and a prepared mind. I hope no one ever gets into a self defense situation but don't be so hard on yourself when you may miss. Maybe take some self defense classes and practice how to deal with a situation. Sometimes that is more important than accuracy. 

I'm repeatedly puzzled by this mindset.

Simple scenario - you are out with your spouse, kid, parent, or whoever you care about. Are they ever farther than 15 yards from you? If they are attacked is your best strategy to run away?

Even if they are right next to you, if an attacker has a firearm, do you think their rounds are going to be no threat to you if you are 25 yards away? Bullets go way farther than that and move way faster than you can. Also, bad guys usually don't care what they hit. Being hit by chance is just as devastating as being hit on purpose - the bullet doesn't care.

Just because you haven't built the skills to pull off a shot, don't pooh-pooh the idea that someone else may have. Yes, skills degrade under stress. However, if you start from a low skill with no stress and degrade that you have next to no skill. It is way worse than starting with a well developed skill that is practiced and tested under the (albeit minor) stress of a timer in competition and degrading that by a similar amount. Additionally, taking part in the practical shooting sports builds your mental capacity too. You get multiple reps of running your gun while having to think about all the things you need to do to solve the 'problem' in front of you. Running the gun becomes subconscious freeing your conscious mind to process what's going on around you.

It appears you may have absorbed some of the "highly trained police officer" doctrine although you acknowledge that they often miss. That is bunk. LEO get minimal training at the academy. Those that take it seriously spend time (and often their own ammo) to build and maintain their shooting skills. Others worry about passing their quals twice a year. Most are in between.

Regardless, what other people do is irrelevant. What you do is what counts. How would you feel if you found yourself in a dire situation, fired a few shots and hurt of killed an innocent bystander. Would you feel a little less bad if you had taken steps to mitigate the risk of that by building and testing your skills instead of ducking that responsibility by saying "nah, I don't believe that's even possible."

Hitting a 12" target at 25 yards with a 2" barrel off hand is absolutely achievable - repeatedly too. 

[High Exposure 5,664]

 

35 minutes ago, Malaka said:

This is no competition or calm day at the range. Chances are you're gonna be ambushed at 3 yards. That's just how these situations go. Police officers may be engaging someone at a distance like 25 yards and with their training, oh boy do they miss.

I'd suggest taking a step away from confidence and realizing that reality isn't gonna be a still paper target with hearing protection and a prepared mind. I hope no one ever gets into a self defense situation but don't be so hard on yourself when you may miss. Maybe take some self defense classes and practice how to deal with a situation. Sometimes that is more important than accuracy. 

This sounds like you took a couple shooting classes and took away all the wrong information. One of the most important components of training for any gunfights - regardless of the distance - is to have an accuracy component at distance (typically 25 yards is the standard) in your training. 

Hitting at 3 yards does not translate to getting hits at 10, 15, 25, or beyond.

Getting hits at 25 or 50 directly correlates to better performance up close.

28 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Your mindset is just very different than mine.

I compete in action shooting matches (indoor and outdoor), take training classes, as well as punching paper at the range.

It seems like you simply practice to be good enough to deal with an ambush at 3 yards.  While it's better then nothing I suppose, to me it's a limiting mindset.

I'd suggest you step away from 'good enough' and train more.

1000000% This is right.

Do not aspire to mediocrity. Be an asset with your firearm. Be more capable than you need to be. Carry the gun you shoot the best (in a duty caliber), be confident in your ability, and know your limitations.

[Vdep217 63]

There's an old saying those who are good practice till they get it right those who become great practice till they can't get it wrong.  When shit hits the fan muscle memory will take over because your thought process and reaction will be skewed

[Vdep217 63]

Think of it thus way granted not under stress but I have taught many people to shoot a bow. (Compound)  but most of them can hit a target at 20 yrds eyes closed.  Not saying 10 ring but a normal sized block at 20 yrds .  Why because they're form is consistent and the body and brain know about where to hold after doing it time and time again

 

[High Exposure 5,664]

5 hours ago, Vdep217 said:

There's an old saying those who are good practice till they get it right those who become great practice till they can't get it wrong.  When shit hits the fan muscle memory will take over because your thought process and reaction will be skewed

Alright, Pedantic Pet Peeve here - there is no such thing as “muscle memory” - there are no brains in your muscles. Your muscles don’t remember shit.

You teach yourself a procedure and you practice it until you can remember how to do it without thinking about each individual step -  it is procedural memory.

Look at your firearms training/practice through the lens of navigating the four levels of achievement:
1) Unconscious incompetence
2) Conscious incompetence
3) Conscious competence
4) Unconscious competence
With the goal of reaching and maintaining the fourth level for the most crucial tasks

If you can keep 20% of your skill at level 4 with the remainder at level 3 you are better than 90% of the rest of the shooters out there. Everything you can do in a gunfight without thinking directly about it frees up time and ability to make decisions. That’s where gunfights are won.

We die in the gaps. We lose in the moments between action where we are making decisions. Build your skill set so there are fewer gaps.

Shooting, especially combat shooting, is simple there are only three steps (ID threat, line up sights, press trigger to rear without disturbing sights) but it is not easy because it happens in the early world. A gunfight is also 99% mental. The physical component is minimal.

The right mindset (which begins with training) amplifies a solid skillset, reduces gaps, and lets you prevail. 

[Vdep217 63]

8 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Alright Pedantic Pet Peeve here - there is no such thing as “muscle memory” - there are no brains in your muscles. Your muscles don’t remember shit.

You teach yourself a procedure and you practice it until you can remember how to do it without thinking about each individual step -  it is procedural memory.

Look at your firearms training/practice through the lens of navigating the four levels of achievement:
1) Unconscious incompetence
2) Conscious incompetence
3) Conscious competence
4) Unconscious competence
With the goal of reaching and maintaining the fourth level for the most crucial tasks

If you can keep 20% of your skill at level 4 with the remainder at level 3 you are better than 90% of the rest of the shooters out there. Everything you can do in a gunfight without thinking directly about it frees up time and ability to make decisions. That’s where gunfights are won.

We die in the gaps. We lose in the moments between action where we are making decisions. Build your skill set so there are fewer gaps.

Shooting, especially combat shooting, is simple there are only three steps (ID threat, line up sights, press trigger to rear without disturbing sights) but it is not easy because it happens in the early world. A gunfight is also 99% mental. The physical component is minimal.

The right mindset (which begins with training) amplifies a solid skillset, reduces gaps, and lets you prevail. 

So we agree except on what we are calling it

[glockncolts 50]

And here I thought this was a thread about handgun applications......

[Tunaman 549]

On 5/19/2023 at 5:29 PM, ALAN553 said:

Sometime your local government works…got a call from my PD records department today.  I have an early permit that came with Morris County judge’s court order, specific gun and carry the order.  Our police chief would like to reissued my permit with no restrictions, just fill out the application again, two new photos and the consent for Mental Health check, no fingerprints, and drop it off…but wait…I asked what will this cost me…..no charge!!!! Sometimes you can’t make this up…..i jokingly asked if there was a lamination fee?

When you get the reissued permit,  dont laminate it.  Take it to staples and let them make a copy,  then laminate them both.  Then you have 2.

[ALAN553 27]

Way ahead of you…printed them out at home on color printer and laminated them, can’t tell original from duplicate after you laminate.

[revenger 473]

On 6/9/2023 at 7:00 PM, Tunaman said:

When you get the reissued permit,  dont laminate it.  Take it to staples and let them make a copy,  then laminate them both.  Then you have 2.

can a document be unlaminated?   my PD laminated after i signed it.

[Malaka 4]

Just now, revenger said:

can a document be unlaminated?   my PD laminated after i signed it.

Usually no cause the lamination may stick to the paper causing tears when trying to separate it. I tried to relaminate an old FID and it began splitting the ID in half. I've had laminations come apart easy too. Just cut around and it separated clean off. Just took a bit of ink with it.

[bolshie 1]

Yea getting back to PTCs.

Morristown highly recommended. Sgt Sylvin goes out of his way to make sure everything is in order and updating you. I was expecting bureaucratic headaches but it went very smooth, after Identigo prints I think it took 3 weeks max to get my permit. 

Why the PTC is so large is unreal, even without lamination it barely fits in my wallet.

[[email protected] 13]

Shrink it a little, make a copy, laminate it, good to go! Put copy on your phone. Send a letter complimenting this officer to the Chief.

[GRIZ 3,369]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:11 PM, High Exposure said:

A gunfight is also 99% mental. The physical component is mental.

Most don't realize this.

Jeff Cooper said gunfights are 95% mental.

[xXxplosive 824]

Friend of mine has been trying to get in contact with anyone from the NJSP Perryville Barracks to make an appointment.....no one answers the phone or returns e-mails....nothin....for over a week now.....is this unusual or par for the course.

[maintenanceguy 510]

7 hours ago, xXxplosive said:

Friend of mine has been trying to get in contact with anyone from the NJSP Perryville Barracks to make an appointment.....no one answers the phone or returns e-mails....nothin....for over a week now.....is this unusual or par for the course.

Don't know anything about that NJSP station but I just walk into mine and drop off whatever paperwork I have.  If the trooper handling firearms is there, he comes out and we go over everything.  If he isn't he calls me later that day and tells me he received it and it's on it's way to Trenton.  I did not know an appointment was needed for NJSP.

[xXxplosive 824]

My friend said that the building is locked and you can't enter..........keeps tryin' to e-mail and call.......this is in Hunterdon County.

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

13 hours ago, xXxplosive said:

My friend said that the building is locked and you can't enter..........keeps tryin' to e-mail and call.......this is in Hunterdon County.

Hey, Perryvlle is my PD! In years past, I would ring the bell and get buzzed in by a trooper at the front desk (and there was ALWAYS a trooper at the front desk). Then, when I went again in more recent years, I was waiting for several minutes... before someone (I guess from another part of the building) finally came to the front desk to buzz me in.... leaving the impression that the front desk might not always be manned anymore (but there's still someone in the building to respond to visitors, because I'm sure the camera and buzzer go into different areas). Interactions btw have also been consistently courteous and professional.

I'm curious, did your friend ring the bell and wait for a response?  I know some local police stations have moved to an unmanned status at different points of the day out of necessity (due to understaffing)... (happened in my prior town), but I'd be genuinely shocked if that was the case with a state police barracks alongside a major interstate! Yikes! I mean, I've read many times over the years that a common security rule is: if you believe a car is following you late at night, do NOT drive home... drive to the nearest police station instead. Well, sheesh... that advice doesn't really hold much water anymore, does it, if the police station is unmanned or even slow to respond to someone at their front door? So, I really hope your friend is wrong about Perryville! But I'm going to ask around locally and see what I can find out & I will report back if I learn something... because frankly, I'm now very curious about this myself, for all kinds of reasons.

[xXxplosive 824]

OK....thanks.

[xXxplosive 824]

19 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Hey, Perryvlle is my PD! In years past, I would ring the bell and get buzzed in by a trooper at the front desk (and there was ALWAYS a trooper at the front desk). Then, when I went again in more recent years, I was waiting for several minutes... before someone (I guess from another part of the building) finally came to the front desk to buzz me in.... leaving the impression that the front desk might not always be manned anymore (but there's still someone in the building to respond to visitors, because I'm sure the camera and buzzer go into different areas). Interactions btw have also been consistently courteous and professional.

I'm curious, did your friend ring the bell and wait for a response?  I know some local police stations have moved to an unmanned status at different points of the day out of necessity (due to understaffing)... (happened in my prior town), but I'd be genuinely shocked if that was the case with a state police barracks alongside a major interstate! Yikes! I mean, I've read many times over the years that a common security rule is: if you believe a car is following you late at night, do NOT drive home... drive to the nearest police station instead. Well, sheesh... that advice doesn't really hold much water anymore, does it, if the police station is unmanned or even slow to respond to someone at their front door? So, I really hope your friend is wrong about Perryville! But I'm going to ask around locally and see what I can find out & I will report back if I learn something... because frankly, I'm now very curious about this myself, for all kinds of reasons.

so he says there is no bell anymore but a red telephone you call inside.......but no one answers.

[xXxplosive 824]

[ryan141 0]

Does anyone have any idea if or why the NJSP have stopped issuing permits?  A friend and I both submitted via FARS, I was a couple of weeks ahead of him but had a paperwork issue that required some leg work.  I turned in the updated form as per the trooper in the Trenton firearms bureau on 08/21.  My friend submitted on 08/03 and was "recommended for approval" but neither of us has heard anything other than the local trooper firearms unit saying they have only had 2 approvals in the last few weeks.  I had originally submitted on 07/29, got the call on 08/10 and was informed that I used an incorrect form and it was missing a signature.  I was also told (did not record the officers name) if I could get the new form signed and turned in I was already approved and the permit would be issued within the week.   

As of today, neither my friend or I have heard anything.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

i just applied for 3 today. it's my first time since we still did it the normal way on paper. it took me about 30 minutes to naviguess my way through the fars system. it was pretty straightforward though. i applied for 3 as mentioned. was surprised to only need 2 references now. they both got emails nearly instantly, and returned already. i got notices for both of those and that i'd submitted the application. cost me 21 bucks online today. which i think is bs, because there's nothing convenient about being forced to use that system....but oh well. i gotta take my pd 75 bucks when i'm approved.

 

 all of this should already be gone due to the bruen decision. i honestly don't understand how this still stands.

[FDHog 613]

I'm on day 49 for my CCW and it only takes me 14 days to get my P2P's. Can't make sense out of any of this crap.