Explanation Please........

[xXxplosive 824]

What exactly does this mean for folks who have there paperwork in before July 1, 2023......

By July 1, 2023, the Superintendent of State Police must establish training requirements in the lawful and safe handling and storage of firearms, which shall consist of an online course of instruction, in-person classroom instruction, and target training administered by a certified firearm instructor on a firing range approved by the Superintendent and on the list of approved ranges published on the State Police website.

The training shall include, but not be limited to, demonstration of a level of proficiency in the use of a handgun in such manner as required by the superintendent and training, developed or approved in conjunction with the Police Training Commission, on justification in the use of deadly force under State law.

Note: A person who obtained an NJ Permit to Carry a Handgun prior to July 1, 2023, and such permit is not scheduled to expire until at least one year from December 22, 2022, shall comply with the new training requirements no later than October 1, 2023.

[voyager9 3,434]

Seems pretty straightforward.   If you received your permit before 7/1/23 and it expires after 12/22/23 then you will have to take the new training.  

My guess is that if you submitted your paperwork before 7/1 but haven’t been issued the permit then they will probably kick back your application to take the new training.   

[xXxplosive 824]

so correct me if I'm wrong but what your saying is, if one has already taken his quals. and paid for them and is in the process of submitting before 7/1....all that money is possibly lost.

[voyager9 3,434]

28 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

so correct me if I'm wrong but what your saying is, if one has already taken his quals. and paid for them and is in the process of submitting before 7/1....all that money is possibly lost.

I would hope that you would be fine if the class/qual you took meets the minimums the SP have yet to define.   Best case you have to reach out to the organizers and get a letter or something that states as such.  

Then again, this is NJ.  The qual requirements probably include having two left testicles.  

[1LtCAP 4,264]

so wait.....those who shot quals last year will have to do this now also??

[maintenanceguy 510]

Yes.  By October, everyone who has a carry permit will need to have completed the new training requirements - which are a mystery right now.

I've been checking the NJ Register every Monday to see what new regulations are coming out - none have been published.   So, I'm guessing this will be created by NJSP, will be required,  but won't be an actual part of regulatory law until later.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

so at this rate there's no way they're gonna have it ready and instructors/ranges certified in time for everyone to do this......

[JohnnyB 4,325]

I see this being blocked by the Federal Courts!  There is no way in HELL that this action will be allowed. I qualified with a State Trooper who is one of only 3 in the state Firearms Unit!  I have his cell # and he said to text him if anything ever came up. I am texting him NOW!

He responded,  "You'll have plenty of time to shoot the new course. You will be fine. No need to be concerned"

Jamell is a great guy!

[1LtCAP 4,264]

does he have any clue what the new course will be? because to be honest i don't think that they can make it harder than what's used now......legally

[Cheflife15 455]

When did this info even get released? I swear they want to make you a felon by changing laws every 4 days. 

[JohnnyB 4,325]

1 minute ago, 1LtCAP said:

does he have any clue what the new course will be? because to be honest i don't think that they can make it harder than what's used now......legally

He invented the online FARS system! I'm sure he will be the first to know, if not the person who has a lot to say about what it is!  I can't bug him for more info at 10PM on his personal cell, but I will keep after him and let everyone know what I find out.

[maintenanceguy 510]

It gets released in July.  Probably July 3 since it's a Monday. 

Keep in mind that when NJ required training for all new FID cards, the NJSP was given the job of coming up with the training.  It turned out to be 27 power point slides on a website that you can click through in 1 minute.

With all the slap-downs NJ is receiving from the courts, I suspect the new requirements won't be overly onerous. 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

25 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I see this being blocked by the Federal Courts!  There is no way in HELL that this action will be allowed. I qualified with a State Trooper who is one of only 3 in the state Firearms Unit!  I have his cell # and he said to text him if anything ever came up. I am texting him NOW!

He responded,  "You'll have plenty of time to shoot the new course. You will be fine. No need to be concerned"

Jamell is a great guy!

New course?  If some of us qual'd with the HQC1/HQC2 that should count right?  Or is it just going to be a slideshow like on FARS?

[1LtCAP 4,264]

Just now, maintenanceguy said:

It gets released in July.  Probably July 3 since it's a Monday. 

Keep in mind that when NJ required training for all new FID cards, the NJSP was given the job of coming up with the training.  It turned out to be 27 power point slides on a website that you can click through in 1 minute.

With all the slap-downs NJ is receiving from the courts, I suspect the new requirements won't be overly onerous. 

when did that happen? i didn't have to do anything other than go through the normal background/mental bs checks and of course pay them and get fingerprinted to get my fPid.....

[JohnnyB 4,325]

11 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

New course?  If some of us qual'd with the HQC1/HQC2 that should count right?  Or is it just going to be a slideshow like on FARS?

I qualified in the backyard of a trucking company!  Good thing thing it was a Trooper in the FIU! He told me I will have to shoot again and he would let me know when and where!  I just hope I don't have to pay anther $150 since he chose the unapproved spot to shoot at in the first place!

[JohnnyB 4,325]

BTW, when the SGT. at my PD saw Jamell's name on my qualification,  he was amazed and said he is the PD's main contact with NJSP and has helped his department many times!  That certainly won't hurt my application for CCW which I am now waiting for approval from the Chief!

[rschmidty6 6]

Let's start taking bets? 

On FARS, I bet a 47 page PDF which will include the existing PDF for an FID card plus more that we need to complete prior to Oct 31st.  

[pjd832 146]

Total horseshit… I find it extremely hard to believe they can legally change the requirements and make those with issued valid permits meet the new requirements prior to the expiration date…..I get it’s nj and all but that seems impossible that would pass legal muster(outside the corrupt nj legal swamp)

so if I am reading correctly they are saying ….anyone that has a permit paid $3-500 jumped through all the bullshit hoops their judge/court approved permits will not be valid unless you take additional training/pay unknown fees….additional shooting qual at an “approved” range…. By XX/XX|XXXX? ……. Wanna bet they’ll be a handful at best in the entire state and everyone will be rushing to schedule and most won’t be able to in the small window between the time they finally announce the couple approved places for the entire state… and the deadline…. And be sure there will be a caveat that those that don’t make it.. their permits will become invalid and will have to start from scratch 

 

 

[maintenanceguy 510]

I don't know what will happen but I think NJ will be very cautious about creating something the courts knock down.  They have seen that not only do the new rules go away but the courts sometimes remove some of the old, long-standing rules too.  If NJ's new training/qualification is onerous, NJ knows it's in danger of losing ground instead of gaining ground in restricting our rights.

 

 

[xXxplosive 824]

so, I'm hesitant about submitting now on Tuesday, probably a better idea to hold off after July 1st maybe.....I don't want to pay for this twice to my local pd, state and for another course......this is our 2A and I firmly believe in Constitutional Carry.....this is entirely a scam ....omo.

[voyager9 3,434]

31 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

so, I'm hesitant about submitting now on Tuesday.....I don't want to pay for this twice to my local pd, state and for another course......this is our 2A and I firmly believe in Constitutional Carry.....this is in entirety a scam....omo.

A couple thoughts in no particular order

• It’s only two weeks until the new requirements are supposed to be posted.   Waiting may save you some aggravation.
• On the other hand they may ignore the deadline. If so you could be waiting longer than you expect
• Either way you’ll have to retake some training.
• I would hope that PD would allow you to append your in-progress application with proof you meet the new requirements.  

[xXxplosive 824]

why even bother with that aggravation....has no benefit, IMO

4 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

 

• I would hope that PD would allow you to append your in-progress application with proof you meet the new requirements.  

Why even bother with that aggravation...has no benefit.....may even take a pass, I'm not payin' again the retake the course I just took...they're already violating my 2A and my wallet.....omo.

[Vdep217 63]

1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

why even bother with that aggravation....has no benefit, IMO

Why even bother with that aggravation...has no benefit.....may even take a pass, I'm not payin' again the retake the course I just took...they're already violating my 2A and my wallet.....omo.

I see ur point however we need as many of us as possible to keep a valid pch in nj as tge more of us there is the easier our fight will be.  Remember bumbs comment about the state accusing legal and vetted permit holders of increasing crime?

[dajonga 397]

At one point in the spring, I heard talk that existing permit holders would have until October to reshoot the new qual, but the need to shoot the qual when your permit expires in 2 years would be waived. I am hoping that is the case.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

A couple thoughts in no particular order

• It’s only two weeks until the new requirements are supposed to be posted.   Waiting may save you some aggravation.
• On the other hand they may ignore the deadline. If so you could be waiting longer than you expect
• Either way you’ll have to retake some training.
• I would hope that PD would allow you to append your in-progress application with proof you meet the new requirements.  

If you have already done a qual and are ready to submit it now, I would go ahead and do it. If you wait until after the new requirements are published I'm pretty sure your app won't be accepted at all until you have done the new qual and there is likely going to be a ramp up time before anyone is ready to run the new version. By submitting now, you have a chance to get your permit and then have until October to do the new qual as well. I have not seen anything to suggest you would have to pay the permit fee more than once.

If you haven't done your qual yet and are willing to wait, then it makes sense to hold off.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

10 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I qualified in an the backyard of a trucking company!  Good thing thing it was a Trooper in the FIU! He told me I will have to shoot again and he would let me know when and where!  I just hope I don't have to pay anther $150 since he chose the unapproved spot to shoot at in the first place!

we're all probably gonna hafta pay again. and again. and again.

[xXxplosive 824]

I've done my qual with one on the state approved list........don't want to pay again to do the same thing.....this is Unconstitutional and you can blame the judges ruling.....wasn't enough.....BOHICA.....omo.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

i did 2 quals. one at south Some other site, one at bobs little sport shop. don't wanna hafta shoot again.

[voyager9 3,434]

2 hours ago, xXxplosive said:

why even bother with that aggravation....has no benefit, IMO

Why even bother with that aggravation...has no benefit.....may even take a pass, I'm not payin' again the retake the course I just took...they're already violating my 2A and my wallet.....omo.

I don’t know why you would have to requalify if the course you already took meets the yet-to-be-published requirements.  I would hope you could just submit documentation that shows the course you took meets the new requirements.  

My main point is that the aggravation may be the same whether you submit now or wait to submit since you already took a course.   You will either need to get documents to include/add to your application or take new training if what you took doesn’t meet the new requirements.  
 

Stu brings up a really good point though.  If you wait then you’d have to take the new training before you submit.  If you submit now you’ll have until October.  

[pjd832 146]

And what prevents them from moving the bar yet again? They set requirements ..people met them, provided proof of approved/acceptable training AT THAT TIME,  judges approved and permits issued… people got permits….they did this begrudgingly as a result of supreme courts ruling…now they’re trying to find ways to take away the rights they were forced to allow….it can not be legal to make existing permit holders have to meet new requirements before their existing permits expire.. perhaps they can change the requirement for new applicants… but I’m sure they are pushing the point of unreasonable requirements by Supreme Court standards to get permit ….the make people that have permits give up and and let it go…. And deter new applicants By trying to make it so hard and confusing to stay on the right side of the law by changing the rules … think about those that have permits and aren’t on this site or gave the state pages bookmarked and checking every hour for changes….. they went through the process think they’re good and following all the stupid restrictions set … and after the new bs kicks in they are a felon without even knowing it…. That’s insane…. Hopefully one of the 20 gun groups blowing up inboxes for money are taking action on this in a preemptive instead of reactive manner