Most Carry Qualification Requirements Erased 9-17-23

[maintenanceguy 510]

I haven't seen any announcements but this showed up on the NJSP website today. https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/forms.shtml

Scroll down to the "Permit to Carry" section.  There are several forms that were added today.

The training is called "PTC Use of Force and Qual [PDF – 485kb]"   This shows the new course of fire which is very similar to the NJSP course of fire.  Unnecessarily complex to exercise a constitutionally enumerated right - in my opinion.

Also interesting is "S.P.182a - PTC -  Additional Handguns Intended to be Carried" which is a form that says "2C:58-4 Permits to Carry Handguns - One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof" but gives a place to list all the firearms you intend to carry - which I don't believe is a requirement in the new law.

Good news is that it seems that any instructor of the NRA, GOA, etc is okay to do the training.  I don't see any requirement on the form or instructions to list the location of the training.  The new law says that training must happen at a range listed on the NJSP website. Odd that there is no mention of that requirement.  Also odd is the fact that the course of fire description says "Interim Training" at the bottom of the page. I think I have more questions than answers about this.

[Golf battery 1,223]

I heard course of fire is most similar to hcq2

[CMJeepster 2,778]

 

[glockncolts 50]

Will the NJSP come to my house in October to pick my permit up if I do not take the new training course? 

Looks like its going to be another shit show with this permit process....

 

[CMJeepster 2,778]

1 hour ago, glockncolts said:

Will the NJSP come to my house in October to pick my permit up if I do not take the new training course? 

Looks like its going to be another shit show with this permit process....

 

And then they will take away your birthday!

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

1 hour ago, CMJeepster said:

And then they will take away your birthday!

Right after that, they will give you a number (or a QR Code lasered on the back of your neck)

and send you to one of their FEMA re-education camps.

[xXxplosive 824]

how sad is it we're even having this discussion here at the "Crossroads Of The American Revolution 1775 - 1777"...........omo.

[Combat Auto 174]

The new (intereum) qual for us Non-Leos is obviously unconstitutional and total BS. I am not applying to be a State Trooper or FBI agent, nor do I have the same use of force rules or legal protections they do...FWIW, I already sent an e-mail to ANJRPC and Dan S. asking that they fight it. Everyone should do the same, they need to hear from us on ths one...

[ALAN553 27]

i looked at the use of force info from the state police...and while I was at GFH today, shooting at 25 yards, I said to myself, based upon the rules and law...shooting at 25 yards...I think they want me running first.  The ACLU should be stepping in to defend the rights of those that have  physical challenges. and after we already jumped through hoops to get  a permit requiring us to come back for a do over?  

[JibbaJabba 7]

I wont be reupping my PTC. I’ve already paid the money and satisfied all those requirements, I wont pay another $435 to GFH (holster draw $235 + nj ccw $200) or $300 to weshoot. Already did the hq2, already did the use of force…. It’s a money grab all around.

 

EDIT: Forgot the $200 to the NJSP.

[JohnnyB 4,326]

I think the courts will rule in our favor before that time comes!

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

9 hours ago, JibbaJabba said:

I wont be reupping my PTC. I’ve already paid the money and satisfied all those requirements, I wont pay another $435 to GFH (holster draw $235 + nj ccw $200) or $300 to weshoot. Already did the hq2, already did the use of force…. It’s a money grab all around.

 

EDIT: Forgot the $200 to the NJSP.

i think that is exactly what they are hoping for.

BTW, that is a pretty rigorous course of fire.  I have done a lot of training and think I could probably pass, but it certainly gets my attention. 

[Tunaman 552]

odd that the PTC use of force and qualification requirements on the NJSP website will not open.  I also notice that is was originally listed as a 7/18/23 date.  and now the date has changed to 7/21/23.  They are making it up as we speak.  What a bunch of bullshit.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

54 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

odd that the PTC use of force and qualification requirements on the NJSP website will not open.  I also notice that is was originally listed as a 7/18/23 date.  and now the date has changed to 7/21/23.  They are making it up as we speak.  What a bunch of bullshit.

that is because they can do whatever they want....even if it's against the "law" or
"statute". there is no prescribed punishment or consequences for them breaking those "laws", thus they are no more than suggestions.

[Regular Guy 264]

We all had to shoot to show proficiency to get our permit to carry and when we were all going through the whole process, people from different parts of NJ were saying they had different courses of fire when they were doing their live fire.  I know I didn't shoot from a kneeling position and I don't think mine wasn't timed (i.e., 30 seconds for 3 shots at 25 yards).  It looks like they have now standardize the course of fire.  Personally, I don't think its a very hard course of fire, but I have 20 yrs military and 7 years LE experience.  But I see this as a basic demonstration of ability to shoot.  A little stress since its timed, but nothing hard like moving and shooting and communicating with other team members with multiple moving targets and non-threats mixed in, while in the dark.

2nd thing; what is everyone seeing that says we have to all go back and requalify to this standard?  I see people on here and facebook talking about that, but I haven't seen anything saying our issued, in-hand permits are void until we reshoot.  The instructor that did my shooting class contacted posted saying this will be the standard next time around, but since we already qualified and have permits, we are good until the permits expire.  He is a firearms instructor for the NJSP and runs a side business as a firearms trainer/consultant.   Also, the email I got from NJARPC said for current permit holders, we just need to review the "Use of force" and the "Safe firearms storage" slides that were attached to the email.  They were put together by the NJ Attorney Generals Office.  Nothing to fill out and no means provided to prove you reviewed it, but the use of force info was good to know.  It looks like the AG wants this to be included in the classroom part of the whole thing you do when you go to demonstrate shooting capability.  Again, looks like they issued a standard basic amount of info they want taught to all permit holders.    

[Vdep217 63]

So ur ok that someone disabled who can't shoot from kneeling or dosnt have use of an arm not being able to get a permit.  Again weather wd have issues with the course of fire is irrelevant we are not military or Leo and should not have to to exercise a right.  Basic knowledge of course of saftey

[Vdep217 63]

24 minutes ago, Regular Guy said:

We all had to shoot to show proficiency to get our permit to carry and when we were all going through the whole process, people from different parts of NJ were saying they had different courses of fire when they were doing their live fire.  I know I didn't shoot from a kneeling position and I don't think mine wasn't timed (i.e., 30 seconds for 3 shots at 25 yards).  It looks like they have now standardize the course of fire.  Personally, I don't think its a very hard course of fire, but I have 20 yrs military and 7 years LE experience.  But I see this as a basic demonstration of ability to shoot.  A little stress since its timed, but nothing hard like moving and shooting and communicating with other team members with multiple moving targets and non-threats mixed in, while in the dark.

2nd thing; what is everyone seeing that says we have to all go back and requalify to this standard?  I see people on here and facebook talking about that, but I haven't seen anything saying our issued, in-hand permits are void until we reshoot.  The instructor that did my shooting class contacted posted saying this will be the standard next time around, but since we already qualified and have permits, we are good until the permits expire.  He is a firearms instructor for the NJSP and runs a side business as a firearms trainer/consultant.   Also, the email I got from NJARPC said for current permit holders, we just need to review the "Use of force" and the "Safe firearms storage" slides that were attached to the email.  They were put together by the NJ Attorney Generals Office.  Nothing to fill out and no means provided to prove you reviewed it, but the use of force info was good to know.  It looks like the AG wants this to be included in the classroom part of the whole thing you do when you go to demonstrate shooting capability.  Again, looks like they issued a standard basic amount of info they want taught to all permit holders.    

 

[Vdep217 63]

I said it in another thread but here's my idea.

They want trying n qual fine.  Run it somthing like hunter Ed test at the end and proficiency.   Get qualified instructors to volunteer to run and teach it and just like hunter Ed little or no cost.

Or 2.  Use pitman Robinson funds and grants we receive to subsidize  ranges to run the course at little cost. 

[Dr. Goodshot 26]

Quote

*Per 2C:58-4 Permit to Carry Handguns, one permit shall be sufficient for all handguns ownedby the holder thereof.

So it sounds like I could do the qualification course with any gun. Like could I do the qualification with, say, a Walther Q5 Match M2, but then carry a 5-shot Airlight J-frame revolver?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I received my permit under the old laws, I have no intentions on following any new permitting processes until a have to renew. 

You can't make people "requalify", and this part will be struck down at a minimum. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I received my permit under the old laws, I have no intentions on following any new permitting processes until a have to renew. 

You can't make people "requalify", and this part will be struck down at a minimum. The new law doesn't even give them permission to set that bullshit standard. 

[Vdep217 63]

18 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I received my permit under the old laws, I have no intentions on following any new permitting processes until a have to renew. 

You can't make people "requalify", and this part will be struck down at a minimum. 

The issue with that is if it's required you will be charged with carrying illegally and will essentially loose your 2a rights until resolved

[JackDaWack 2,895]

The only thing I can find that says you need to requilfiy is Evan Nappan... of course. 

If it ends up being true, Everyone who has a permit should go down to their PD and file a criminal complaint for fraud against the NJ AG(cost you nothing to do it). We paid money for a 2 year permit, and they were issued by them. Anything less than 2 years constitutes fraud by the state since these permits cost money. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

5 minutes ago, Vdep217 said:

The issue with that is if it's required you will be charged with carrying illegally and will essentially loose your 2a rights until resolved

No problem, I will sue the state for fraud and violation of my civil liberties. Watch how fast they drop the charges.

I have the resources. 

My permit was not issued with contingencies of qualifications to retain within the 2 year period, by law. 

 

This is purely scare tactics, from a legal standpoint none of this holds water for people with issued permits. The law does not give them power to void our permits under these conditions.

[Vdep217 63]

2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

No problem, I will sue the state for fraud and violation of my civil liberties. Watch how fast they drop the charges.

I have the resources. 

My permit was not issued with contingencies of qualifications to retain within the 2 year period, by law. 

 

This is purely scare tactics, from a legal standpoint none of this holds water for people with issued permits. The law does not give them power to void our permits under these conditions.

Unfortunately until it's sorted out in court it is law if indeed we need to redo.  Thr state will have unlimited resources and you will go broke fighting it not to mention having a feliny charge until its resolved and not having any of your firearms in your possession as they will take them in the meantime 

[Tunaman 552]

3 hours ago, Dr. Goodshot said:

So it sounds like I could do the qualification course with any gun. Like could I do the qualification with, say, a Walther Q5 Match M2, but then carry a 5-shot Airlight J-frame revolver?

You can carry any gun you own according to the law. That does nothing for you in court if you shoot someone with a gun you didnt qualify with.  It is a slippery slope designed for us to get caught on.  Pester the law abiding citizens that pay their salary,  and let the criminals off easy while maintaining their voter base.  This state truly sucks.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

38 minutes ago, Vdep217 said:

Unfortunately until it's sorted out in court it is law if indeed we need to redo.  Thr state will have unlimited resources and you will go broke fighting it not to mention having a feliny charge until its resolved and not having any of your firearms in your possession as they will take them in the meantime 

No, it's not law. I checked the laws, and cannot find where it says a current permit holder needs to requalify under these new standards. 

Matter of fact, I plan on being proactive in this respect and will be doing 2 things if this comes to fruition. 

1. File a criminal complaint against whom ever attempts to illegally void my permit. 

2. File an ethics complaint against the NJ AG to have him either remanded or disbarred for an illegal attempt in knowingly limiting my civil rights.

[Vdep217 63]

12 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

No, it's not law. I checked the laws, and cannot find where it says a current permit holder needs to requalify under these new standards. 

Matter of fact, I plan on being proactive in this respect and will be doing 2 things if this comes to fruition. 

1. File a criminal complaint against whom ever attempts to illegally void my permit. 

2. File an ethics complaint against the NJ AG to have him either remanded or disbarred for an illegal attempt in knowingly limiting my civil rights.

With the new sualification it has stated that anyone who has previously acquired a permit that does not meet the new criteria has until October 1 to comply.  I like my freedom to much and my money to risk it all you do you I wish u the best of luck and hope you have deep pockets if you are caught carrying in violation

[Displaced Texan 11,751]

NJ LTC holders need to pair with the NJ Gun owners groups and file a class action lawsuit against the state. 
 

I can see the state requiring the new qualifications upon renewal of your LTC, but not to holders who received permits under the old requirements. 
 

It is a significant, and undue financial burden to NJ LTC holders. 
 

 

[revenger 473]

I still dont know how "Shooters" can put out a statement that they checked wtih the SP and their quals are OK ,   A friend took his quals there and they only went out to 15 yds,    so how can the SP say theres was OK but Gun for Hire is not?   I hope its not a money grab by the ranges?

 

something fishy