AZ congresswoman shot

[njpilot 671]

There were reports yesterday that a bystander was carrying and returned fire. Haven't heard it anymore, so maybe it was an erroneous report.

[vjf915 456]

How could they hear anybody return fire with all the automatic fire and shotguns going off?

 

 

 

Disclaimer: The above comment was made with a sarcastic tone. Anyone reading the above comment should not take it seriously in any way.

[njpilot 671]

Tom Lott and Paul Hemke on Fox News now debating gun control.

 

Rep. Caroline Maloney (D-NY) says we need more gun control.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

There were reports yesterday that a bystander was carrying and returned fire. Haven't heard it anymore, so maybe it was an erroneous report.

Probably an erroneous report. It looks like 3 people were able to stop the guy from reloading, so he wasn't able to get more shots off.

 

Can someone please fix the topic title? It's misleading.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Tom Lott and Paul Hemke on Fox News now debating gun control.

 

Rep. Caroline Maloney (D-NY) says we need more gun control.

 

which is pretty ridiculous because the news was just talking about how the congresswoman was pro 2a..

[bbk 188]

** Fixed the topic's title. Gosh, talk about tunnel vision, and how I totally missed that.

[vjf915 456]

I was wondering why it said CA.....

[njpilot 671]

which is pretty ridiculous because the news was just talking about how the congresswoman was pro 2a..

 

 

No, no, the Congresswoman shot was pro 2A, Maloney is a big Lib from NY who is anti 2A.

[vladtepes 1,060]

No, no, the Congresswoman shot was pro 2A, Maloney is a big Lib from NY who is anti 2A.

 

I am saying they are using the shooting of a woman (wasn't the congresswoman for gun ownership?) who was pro2a and using her death to drag in some BS she was not in favor of.. seems kind of rude to say the least..

[YankeeFan 49]

I am saying they are using the shooting of a woman (wasn't the congresswoman for gun ownership?) who was pro2a and using her death to drag in some BS she was not in favor of.. seems kind of rude to say the least..

 

It's what scumbag politicians like McCarthy do....use other people's tragedy and pain to promote their own political agendas. McCarthy is anti 2A because her husband was killed and her son injured in the 1993 LIRR shooting. What she doesn't (want) to understand is that NY's gun laws probably contributed to the LIRR shooting in the first place....

[vjf915 456]

It's what scumbag politicians like McCarthy do....use other people's tragedy and pain to promote their own political agendas.

I hate to be the one to point this out but.....EVERYONE does this. The firearms community used Brian Aitken to promote firearms and the highly oppressive laws. We all said "See it CAN happen. Brian was not a criminal, yet he got arrested. It happened to him, and it can happen to us. We need to change the laws." We used him as an example to try and change the laws we wanted changed. Is going to jail for longer than you should have as bad as a mass shooting? No. But the tactic itself is the same. Although I strongly disagree with the theory that strict gun laws would have stopped this from happening, I don't blame the antis for using this as an example. It is the PERFECT scenario for them to use. All they have to do is sit there and say "If we had strict gun laws, this wouldn't have happened." They may be wrong, but it's a wise and common tactic to use when trying to persuade any change.

[Malsua 1,422]

Wow is this guy nuts.

 

Read this ATS topic.

 

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread593100/pg1

 

If the design of the NASA Space Shuttle keeps the black body temperature of −454 °F from the outside orbit then the NASA Space Shuttle is at a temperature for human life.

The NASA Space Shuttle isn’t at a temperature for human life.

Hence, the design of the NASA Space Shuttle doesn’t keep the black body temperature of −454 °F from the outside orbit.

 

He's babblespeaking that because space is cold and people can't live in space that the space shuttle must be fake.

 

It continues down thread...

 

Your are miscreant with a reply of misconception!

 

I know you are ridicules for the attack of grammar.

This grammar problem might be true for you, but isn't true for me!

 

If the living space is able to maintain the crews life at a temperature of −454 °F then the human body is alive in the NASA Space Shuttle.

The human body isn't alive in the NASA Space Shuttle.

Thus, the living space isn't able to maintain the crews life at a temperature of −454 °F.

 

And someone's response to him...by that logic, we couldn't go in pressurized cabins in airplanes.

 

This guy TRULY has screws loose.

[Dan 177]

First, I believe these types of people if allowed to continue on would carry out their evil deeds no matter what you outlaw or make illegal. Just look on the inet of the videos of disturbed people ramming into crowds of people with their vehicles. They will find a way.

 

There is no amount of government oversight/control that can filter out all of the potentially dangerous mentally ill people. Did the military know he was loony , probably. Did the school that kicked him out, I'm sure they had an indication he was off the deep end. Now who's responsibility is it to go capture this guy and admit him to a psychiatric hospital? Perhaps a government reporting hotline that schools, military, employers could call in anonymous concerns about the mental health of the people they encounter? Pretty scary if it comes to that, the potential for abuse is disturbingly high. There is a whole quagmire of issues to deal with around how this would go down. How would someone like to be dragged away from their home because someone with malicious intentions "called in" that they think the person fit a violent mental illness profile? Even if you are out with a clean bill, now you have a record for being admitted...

 

I firmly believe that family and friends are the best that we have in terms of heading these things off. Catching the ones that slip through the cracks so to speak. Education and helping to raise people's awareness of what to look for early on so they can get their friend or family member some help would probably go much further than any other Nanny State legislation the govt can dream up. The real challenge after that is getting people to care, a value that I feel is waning in our society as a whole.

[Wojo 98]

I have waited before responding to any of these post for more information to come and an opportunity for me to digest when happened from the information being provided by the MSM.

 

First of this is a tremendous tragedy primarily for the people and family members of the victims and my sympathies go out to them. A 9 year old girl was killed. As a father of 4 kids, with twin girls aged 10, I cannot imagine the emotional agony I would be in.

 

Here are my observations and commentary coming from a professional security perspective.

 

1. Where was the security? I did not see or hear of ANY security measures in place. One cop or executive protection person like myself would have been able to prevent this, or certainly minimized the carnage.

 

2. Crowd Control, where was it? You don't need a big budget, but you do need someone that has an education on how to stage and set up venues in order to protect your principal. College interns do not fit the bill.

 

3. If you are elected, you are a target. As soon as you are an elected official, celebrity, or whatever everything changes. How naive are they to think she doesn't have any enemies? This is the type of situation that makes the Secret Service, Diplomatic Security Service and private EP guys like myself loose sleep. The known people are easy to deal with. The out of the blue is what gets you amp'ed up.

 

4. EMS - Did they have an ambulance on site? Any time you have a public gathering like this it is in your best interest to have a EMS unit on site. You would be surprised at how willing some EMS crews are willing to provide services for a small donation to their volunteer organization.

 

5. Body armor. Not that this would have helped a head shot, but if you are in public speaking, having it is one great piece of insurance.

 

I am sure over the next few days more details will be coming in from my network.

 

Risk and Threat Assessment is what I do for individuals and corporations. This was a very preventable tragedy in every aspect.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Wow is this guy nuts.

Read this ATS topic.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread593100/pg1

He's babblespeaking that because space is cold and people can't live in space that the space shuttle must be fake.

It continues down thread...

And someone's response to him...by that logic, we couldn't go in pressurized cabins in airplanes.

This guy TRULY has screws loose.

 

Then for punishment for his crimes he must be shoved out of an airlock from a shuttle.

[Shane45 807]

Wojo, its like evrything else today. Nothing but one dimensional thinkers that embrace the idea of closing the barn door after the horse has left....

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Apparently there was a guy who was carrying concealed that day - one of the ones who disarmed the shooter.

 

From Beretta Forums

He was carrying and had the presence of mind not to produce his weapon. He saw a person with the gun assessed the situation and seen the Glock was at slidelock so he didn't produce his weapon. Grethen of FOX AM show has her jaw on the ground that this guy was carrying a gun. The kid is representing himself well. The person holding the gun when he arrived a the scene was a bystander who had disarmed the shooter. He had his hand on his weapon said he took the safety off put didn't pull it. He said he was in a nearby store and ran out to the scene when he herard shots. The FOX interviewers barely know what to do. The asked him what training her had, basically he told them he grew up with his dad around guns. Gretchen on FOX asked him if he always carried - answer ALWAYS. Then he expanded and told her he may not go to airports anymore since he can't carry there, and this just reinforced his plans to carry.

 

 

 

http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2011/01/10/one-of-the-men-who-subdued-loughner-had-a-gun-and-he-was-ready-to-use-it/

[tommy3rd 132]

I read that the shooter used a Glock 19 with 30 round magazine.

You got it wrong. Every single media outlet says they were high capacity "CLIPS". Excellent reporting!

[BRN169 6]

This guy was a wing-nut (left hand thread!) Heard a report today that he had a FTF after changing magazines (report was the "magazine spring failed") at which point his weapon jumped... Not sure if this is indeed the case but wouldn't it be ironic if the hi-cap was the cause of the FTF and allowed people time to tackle him... If he had factory 10 or 15 round mags they may have actually been more reliable and thus not allowed people time enough to tackle him. I can only hope this was the case but you'll never hear that story if it is so true...

[YankeeFan 49]

It appears Jared Loughner was well known to the Pima County Sheriff's department. They could have done more to prevent this tragedy....

 

http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/

[bulpup 98]

It appears Jared Loughner was well known to the Pima County Sheriff's department. They could have done more to prevent this tragedy....

 

http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/

 

 

From the story

 

Every victim of his threats previously must also be wondering if this tragedy could have been prevented if they had been more aggressive in pursuing charges against Mr. Loughner. Perhaps with a felony conviction he would never have been able to lawfully by the Glock 9mm Model 19 that he used to strike down the lives of six people and decimate 14 more.

 

 

this is why I recommend completing police reports against the guy that threatened babagonish... over some snow. One guy having a run in with him is one thing, two people willing or at least considering a police report over seperate incidents really does mean something.

[Babaganoosh 192]

From the story

 

 

 

 

this is why I recommend completing police reports against the guy that threatened babagonish... over some snow. One guy having a run in with him is one thing, two people willing or at least considering a police report over seperate instances really does mean something.

 

I remember saying that in one of my posts!! Yeah thats one of the reaons I am going thru with it.

[matty 810]

The Freepers were top of this on Sunday, a woman with the same last name (Loughner) supposedly works/worked for the Pima Co. parks dept. Unknown if its his mom or how high up she is, but according to documents on FR, she attended a number of meetings as a rep for parks. Speculation was, if this is indeed his mom, that perhaps he was given kid glove treatment, since she is/was a county employee. It is somewhat odd if he was "known" to the Sheriff's dept that he was able to pass a NICS.

 

Caveat--I have no idea if the docs on FR were real or not, but I had heard elsewhere that his mother was a Pima Co. employee, its all Internet stuff, so it couldall be BS.

[Malsua 1,422]

Not necessarily..also remember being shot in the head isnt an automatic CNS issue either. I had a kid shot in the head recently I THOUGHT he was a goner when i got on Scene, turns out it wasnt fatal or even very debilatating. Time will tell one way or the other. Best wishes for a Speedy recovery for her.

 

Just for what it's worth, on an article I was reading today about her and their cautious optimism, they came up with some statistics which were even worse that I had heard.

 

 

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/10/gupta-what-helped-giffords-survive-brain-shot/

 

While every patient and injury is different, on average – around 2/3 of patients with a gunshot wound (GSW) to the head don’t live long enough to make it to the hospital. Of the third that do make it, only 50% of those patients survive longer than 30 days. And of course, those numbers say nothing of long-term neurological function in the survivors.

 

What this is saying is that if you are shot in the head, there's an 82.5% chance you'll be dead within 30 days.

 

That Mrs Giffords is doing as well as she is, is quite against the odds.

[djg0770 481]

It appears Jared Loughner was well known to the Pima County Sheriff's department. They could have done more to prevent this tragedy....

 

http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/

 

Umm, this link is nothing but a blog with no evidence and references to support it. I would be cautious about believing anything in this "report" without verifying it myself.

 

Not saying it couldn't be true. Trust, but verify...

[Wojo 98]

That was a pretty information interview with Dr Gupta. Amazing she survived is an understatement. Just goes to show, one to the head isn't enough. Spetnaz puts two in the head of the gassed terrorist just to be sure for good reasons.

[Malsua 1,422]

That was a pretty information interview with Dr Gupta. Amazing she survived is an understatement. Just goes to show, one to the head isn't enough. Spetnaz puts two in the head of the gassed terrorist just to be sure for good reasons.

 

It's probably also because the dope bought his ammo at Walmart. Probably bought range ammo and not hollow points.

[njpilot 671]

I am saying they are using the shooting of a woman (wasn't the congresswoman for gun ownership?) who was pro2a and using her death to drag in some BS she was not in favor of.. seems kind of rude to say the least..

 

Ah, got you Vlad. Thought you were saying Maloney was pro 2A.

[Wojo 98]

It's probably also because the dope bought his ammo at Walmart. Probably bought range ammo and not hollow points.

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

 

not to be insensitive but I kind of thought the same thing.. not going to be graphic but the situation could have been far worse..