Open Carry Phily Incident Charges Filed

[Zed's_Dead 16]

Looking into the future, if the PPD actually did make stops according to that directive, and along the lines of Terry stops, I think the courts would approve of that because of the special license requirement to carry in Philly. I'm not saying I agree, so please keep your flames off lol!!!

[Babaganoosh 192]

I'm wondering why this thread isn't locked yet. Ive seen many threads locked for less

[M4BGRINGO 139]

They actually let people discuss things here unlike the Firing Line. I got a one week ban from those clowns, jeez.....

 

Hey, slightly off-topic but then again slightly on-topic, IF this state ever allowed us "second-class" citizens to carry, would you rather carry open or concealed?

 

Don't fall-off your chair laughing, I know it won't happen anytime soon, if-ever, just posing the question.

 

I don't think wearing a badge to prove you are legit to carry open in PA would work, a black market would simply arise for fake badges.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I'm wondering why this thread isn't locked yet. Ive seen many threads locked for less

Yeah, but there is so much truth behind it all, no matter how heated it's gotten thus far..

[Dozer 0]

I am all for gun rights and love my guns,but its pretty obvious the guy was looking for trouble at some point and also found some in the past.Maybe he should move across the bridge and see what rights we have,then he might be grateful for what rights they do have in PA and use some common sense.Im all for CC (and open carry with common sense) but he's lucky that he ran into that cop and not some of the thugs of the inner city while he proudly and legally walked around with his nice weapon in plain view.I say this as I work in and around some of the worst neighborhoods in Philly and at times wish i could CC, but would never want to advertise.

The cop was wrong and ignorant of the law and all respects,also think he was very nervous of what might have been the outcome.To add as we are told when breaking the law,ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Last point in my opinion,some of the mall ninjas and far out gun freaks do more harm than good to responsible gun owners.

[mipafox 438]

They should issue you a small pin or badge which you can wear, this way it is not something that can be easily ruined and its not an eyesore. I've actually seen them before which is what makes me think about it. You could keep it pinned to your belt right next to the firearm so it's hard to miss. The question is... is it really necessary?

 

That's pretty silly and many of you people are a little bizarre by American standards. I probably would have said the same thing you said when I lived in NJ for almost 30 years. I gotta tell you, once you move to America, and everything is legal, and there is rule of law and you are not afraid of cops, your perspective starts to change after a couple years.

 

I've been OC'ing 99.9% of the time for the past few years in PA. Never had a problem with it. Encountered dozens of cops that noticed my sidearm. There is no need for a button or badge that says you can carry, and neither is going to mean a damn thing in Philly. This is not about carry, it’s about corrupt and criminal cops from what I read in the paper almost daily.

[mipafox 438]

I am all for gun rights and love my guns,but its pretty obvious the guy was looking for trouble at some point and also found some in the past.Maybe he should move across the bridge and see what rights we have,then he might be grateful for what rights they do have in PA and use some common sense.

 

I've been carrying for a couple years now. Almost all OC. Am I obviously looking for trouble?

[Dozer 0]

I've been carrying for a couple years now. Almost all OC. Am I obviously looking for trouble?

 

You are the only one who can answer that question.

[PK90 3,570]

Maybe I missed it here, but can anyone open carry in PA without a permit, including jerseyians?

[Maksim 1,504]

Maybe I missed it here, but can anyone open carry in PA without a permit, including jerseyians?

 

Yes, except in Philly where you need a LTCF. (My understanding of it.)

[11b1p 14]

It's sad that we live in a world where we actually need these incidents to happen in order for anything to change. And usually not just one incident either.

[Soju 153]

Maybe I missed it here, but can anyone open carry in PA without a permit, including jerseyians?

 

Maks answer is exactly correct. Anyone can carry in the state of PA, no permits required, including NJ residents. As also noted, you do need a valid PA LTCF or a permit from another state that has reciprocity with PA to openly carry a firearm in Philadelphia.

 

Regarding the wearing some sort of badge to signify you can carry that is being discussed, my opinion. It seems silly, petty, even stupid, but you know what, there are tons of things that are silly, petty, and pretty stupid, but we sometimes have to have because people in general are morons, ignorant, and close minded. So if having to wear some sort of badge (much like police officers BTW) so that it signifies you can carry is something that will prevent incidents like this, I'm all for it. Make the penalty the same as it would be for impersonating a police officer or federal employee. It might as well have the same implications.

 

Should this be a requirement? Hell no. Because it is silly, petty, and stupid. But such is the world we live in. Catering to those who "want to feel safe". Total BS mind you, but that is the truth.

 

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

[Maksim 1,504]

Hell No to any badges. Once again, they made jews wear badges too in Germany. Those badges are yet another form of registration and control.

 

I am personally against open carry, would rather conceal, however the people have the right to OC, much like people have the right to their opinions, in either case, you dont need any permits to exercise any other rights under the constitution, so why have a badge/permit to open carry?

 

Imagine having to get a permit to write an article critiquing politicians. How about a permit to speak any language other than English? What about a permit or a badge giving you the ability to practice your own religion.

 

Now if there is a public referendum, and the majority want stricter gun control, then people have that right, fortunately, the United States as a whole is still fairly normal.

[Soju 153]

Hell No to any badges. Once again, they made jews wear badges too in Germany. Those badges are yet another form of registration and control.

 

I am personally against open carry, would rather conceal, however the people have the right to OC, much like people have the right to their opinions, in either case, you dont need any permits to exercise any other rights under the constitution, so why have a badge/permit to open carry?

 

Imagine having to get a permit to write an article critiquing politicians. How about a permit to speak any language other than English? What about a permit or a badge giving you the ability to practice your own religion.

 

Now if there is a public referendum, and the majority want stricter gun control, then people have that right, fortunately, the United States as a whole is still fairly normal.

 

I agree completely. It is a pretty ridiculous idea right?

 

Absolutely! But at the same time, what do you think is more realistic? People accepting people open carrying when they wear a badge or people just being able to carry willy nilly? Now I am asking for you to look at it from a, shall we call it liberal...anti gun point of view. Of course the whole idea is stupid, but if everyone had the same opinions as us this wouldn't even be an issue. However it is, and there has to be some accommodation as silly as it may be. That is the whole point I am trying to make.

 

BTW, would be against it too! Just refer to my signature further if need be.

 

My bad, I thought I had a signature with this quote in it:

 

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. – Aristotle

Edited May 19, 2011 by Bonesinium

[Maksim 1,504]

I agree completely. It is a pretty ridiculous idea right?

 

Absolutely! But at the same time, what do you think is more realistic? People accepting people open carrying when they wear a badge or people just being able to carry willy nilly? Now I am asking for you to look at it from a, shall we call it liberal...anti gun point of view. Of course the whole idea is stupid, but if everyone had the same opinions as us this wouldn't even be an issue. However it is, and there has to be some accommodation as silly as it may be. That is the whole point I am trying to make.

 

BTW, would be against it too! Just refer to my signature further if need be.

 

My bad, I thought I had a signature with this quote in it:

 

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. – Aristotle

 

 

Do you honestly think that a badge would make people feel safer? I think what would be more probable is just having everyone conceal carry. Ie... if you are anti gun...

 

its like eating a steak. You know you want it, but do you really want to see where it comes from? At least my take on it.

 

Furthermore, here is the other thing... OC right now, just go and do it. What if you have to issue those badges. Who is going to pay for it? Who will control it. At that point, it becomes an expense, added on training requirement etc. ie, a license to open carry.... where is the freedom in that?

[vjf915 456]

Hell No to any badges.

I completely agree. This is exactly how I felt about the new license plate stickers that are being enforced for minors. I don't remember the exact requirements, I believe it's something along the lines of being under 21 AND having your provisional license. Yes, go ahead, mark out the cars driven by young kids for all the stalking pedophiles....

[djg0770 481]

I completely agree. This is exactly how I felt about the new license plate stickers that are being enforced for minors. I don't remember the exact requirements, I believe it's something along the lines of being under 21 AND having your provisional license. Yes, go ahead, mark out the cars driven by young kids for all the stalking pedophiles....

 

 

VJF - that's a perfect parallel example that I had thought of as well. The difference, of course, is that driving is a privilege, not a right.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

They actually let people discuss things here unlike the Firing Line. I got a one week ban from those clowns, jeez.....

 

Hey, slightly off-topic but then again slightly on-topic, IF this state ever allowed us "second-class" citizens to carry, would you rather carry open or concealed?

 

Don't fall-off your chair laughing, I know it won't happen anytime soon, if-ever, just posing the question.

 

I don't think wearing a badge to prove you are legit to carry open in PA would work, a black market would simply arise for fake badges.

 

We will see what direction the state is going in September, who knows what will really happen but I am not holding my breath just yet. However i would really like to have both available, no that I want to OC, I only CC but I like that fact that if something happened, I fell, moved in a way that displayed my firearm, I would like to be covered but the ability to OC.

 

By the way, I mention falling, well you know why.

 

Harry

[Anselmo 87]

Looking into the future, if the PPD actually did make stops according to that directive, and along the lines of Terry stops, I think the courts would approve of that because of the special license requirement to carry in Philly. I'm not saying I agree, so please keep your flames off lol!!!

 

You also need a special license to drive a car.

[Vlad G 345]

You also need a special license to drive a car.

 

But you don't get pulled over as soon as you leave your driveway for no reason but to have your license checked, again after the first turn, and again at the traffic light, and again on the on-ramp ...

[Dan 177]

People advocating badges , are you kidding me? That's ridiculous. The whole "license check" without RAS that the OCer was breaking a law is absurd. If the cop has a good idea the person is a prohibited person, i.e. just arrested them last year for some violent felony crime, etc.. sure check away as that is RAS that the person may carrying illegally.

 

Otherwise, noway. Under current Philly/PA laws and that standing order... theoretically , LE can line up down the street and check the guy's LTCF 40 times per day walking back and forth to work. This type of thing is ripe for abuse, and down right unconstitutional as you should be able to peaceably go about your business exercising your rights without undue harassment and delay by the government.

 

This is very simple. 2A gives us the right to keep and BEAR arms in this country. Sure there are boundaries to exercising this right responsibly... like not going around waving your gun and threatening people, acting in a violent manner, abusing the right to break laws, etc.

 

Otherwise, any law-abiding citizen should be able to go to Walmart, pass a NICS check, buy a gun, and holster it on their hip and walk down the street without being harassed.

 

If a prohibited person (lets say a prior violent felon) decides to OC a gun, they run the risk of going to jail for a long long time if they are involved in any incident with LE such as a self defense shooting, witness to a crime, car accident, committing a crime, etc any situation where LE would be involved and check the guy out. Not as a result of "papers please" spot checks. These are the same risks the prohibited person takes if they conceal carry a weapon as well. Both situations are illegal as this hypothetical guy is prohibited period.

 

This is why I'm all for being tough on crime when it comes to people abusing their 2A rights and using a gun during the commission of violent crimes.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Maybe I missed it here, but can anyone open carry in PA without a permit, including jerseyians?

 

 

Essentially yes - however, you cannot OC in a vehicle or in a City of the First Class (Phila is the only one in PA) without an LTCF, as well as the usual exceptions - federal buildings, schools, etc.

[almiz111 26]

Essentially yes - however, you cannot OC in a vehicle or in a City of the First Class (Phila is the only one in PA) without an LTCF, as well as the usual exceptions - federal buildings, schools, etc.

 

Please explain OC and CC in a vehicle in PA. Sounds like the gun goes in the trunk, period, no?

Thanks.

[Soju 153]

Do you honestly think that a badge would make people feel safer? I think what would be more probable is just having everyone conceal carry. Ie... if you are anti gun...

 

its like eating a steak. You know you want it, but do you really want to see where it comes from? At least my take on it.

 

Furthermore, here is the other thing... OC right now, just go and do it. What if you have to issue those badges. Who is going to pay for it? Who will control it. At that point, it becomes an expense, added on training requirement etc. ie, a license to open carry.... where is the freedom in that?

 

Again, I agree with everything you are saying. It is a pretty terrible idea IMO. What I am saying, is to look at it from the other perspective, and considering the whole ridiculous idea was brought up, not by me, but from someone who has an opposite opinion, then apparently (to answer your first question), yes! You really need to ignore your own opinion on this one, and therefore logic as well, to view it from the other direction. I know it may be hard to see, but I am not arguing with you!

[Soju 153]

Please explain OC and CC in a vehicle in PA. Sounds like the gun goes in the trunk, period, no?

Thanks.

 

If you don't have a valid LTCF or carry license from another state with reciprocity, then yes. If you do have a license to carry, then you can carry on your person, either openly or concealed, while in a vehicle.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Please explain OC and CC in a vehicle in PA. Sounds like the gun goes in the trunk, period, no?

Thanks.

 

 

If you have an LTCF or a license/permit from a reciprocal state you can OC or CC anywhere that it is not prohibited. If you do not have a LTCF or a reciprocal license/permit, you can OC anywhere except the normal prohibited places, Philadelphia or in a motor vehicle (once you get in a motor vehicle, the law considers the weapon concealed - even if the MV is a motorcycle).

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Again, I agree with everything you are saying. It is a pretty terrible idea IMO. What I am saying, is to look at it from the other perspective, and considering the whole ridiculous idea was brought up, not by me, but from someone who has an opposite opinion, then apparently (to answer your first question), yes! You really need to ignore your own opinion on this one, and therefore logic as well, to view it from the other direction. I know it may be hard to see, but I am not arguing with you!

 

I do hear what you are saying, but where does it start and where will it end?? What would I need to wear and show others to practice my 1st amendment rights??

 

Harry

[FearThisInc 35]

Just a FYI but for those talking about how you don't have you license checked when you pull out your driveway, when making a turn, etc.. You would probably never know if your license is being checked.. Police can do what's called a random plate check.. So when you make that turn I can put your plate in through dispatch or a computer and see if any "hits" come back such as expired license, suspended license, warrants, etc... Just thought I would throw that out there..

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Just a FYI but for those talking about how you don't have you license checked when you pull out your driveway, when making a turn, etc.. You would probably never know if your license is being checked.. Police can do what's called a random plate check.. So when you make that turn I can put your plate in through dispatch or a computer and see if any "hits" come back such as expired license, suspended license, warrants, etc... Just thought I would throw that out there..

 

??? and this had to do with what?? I do know that most of us know that is what would come up with on a random plate check, and that would be for the person who the vehicle is registered to as we know also.

 

If this is in reference to a person having FID card with them as they go to and from a range or armorer, while it can't hurt to have it with them it is NOT required by law. Just trying to get what that comment of yours was in reference to..

 

Harry

[Vlad G 345]

Just a FYI but for those talking about how you don't have you license checked when you pull out your driveway, when making a turn, etc.. You would probably never know if your license is being checked.. Police can do what's called a random plate check.. So when you make that turn I can put your plate in through dispatch or a computer and see if any "hits" come back such as expired license, suspended license, warrants, etc... Just thought I would throw that out there..

 

Really? So when you run a plate check you also get a satellite telemetry with a instant picture taken of the driver's face so you know who is actually driving the car, not who has it registered, and it does facial recognition against driver license pictures? Thats awesome. I haven't been pulled over in a long long time but I guess you don't ask people for license, registration, and proof of insurance then?