Retired LEOs Targeted

[Old School 611]

I feel it is a moral duty of mine to protect a woman getting the crap beat out of her as well...and I did. I had no gun, no protection just my conscience that told me to do so. I put my life at risk because I don't want to wait 5 minutes for a LEO to get there and live with the possibility that this woman is killed. I don't care about lawsuits and consequences... the thought of that woman being killed would be on my conscience for the rest of my life. If that were my daughter or wife I hope others would do the same.

 

The thing that bothers me is when I got my FID and permits I spoke to the Chief of police in my area. He was very pro-gun and very supportive until I mentioned carrying. At that point his attitude changed [completely] to arrogant. He even stated that most/all citizens are too stupid to carry and to rely on LEOs. "What"? I said. "I am not allowed to defend myself outside of the home"? That really ticked me off, because in reality me walking around without a firearm is in more dangerous or the same as an off duty LEO walking around without one as well.I encounter the same people that you do, I go to the same places and I have my family. What gives an off duty LEO a special right to protect your family when off duty? I have the right to protect my wife and three children just as you do. I would to like hear why you don't think I should have the Constitutional right to defend my family but you can.

 

BTW, my Grandfather and two uncles were Philadelphia cops for their entire lives so I am well aware and respect what you do. I am simply trying to understand why NJ LEOs have the mentality that honest citizens don't need to carry or should not be allowed to. Please, I mean no disrespect and apologize in advance if I seem so.

 

Maybe for the same reason "specials" no longer carry.... The Union.

[XDJohnTact 49]

Exactly. After 25 to 30 years I retire and decide I dont have to do anything about anything. So I don't need to carry. Also another reason I carry is because when I am not at work I still may run into somebody who I locked up. Perfect example. The guy who I locked up of federal charges was set to be bailed out befor the fed charges were brought. He was going I live with a family member in the town where I live! I only found out in speaking with the officer from ATF he didn't know I was fom Bayonne. When he Lund out,he told me to keep an eye out. There seems to be a lot of hating because I get to carry. It doesn't make me any better thn you, it's just part of my job. I think more people should be able to carry but that's not the case. If it bothers you that muh thn move or get into law enforcement. I chose tht job not for the money or for the fact I cn carry a gun all the time.

 

2 words - proof read!

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

 

2 words - proof read!

 

Wow after all this that is what you have to add. Thanks for your insightful input. You really brought a lot to this discussion. That's what I get for trying to type long responses on my phone.

[mikelets456 78]

Exactly. After 25 to 30 years I retire and decide I dont have to do anything about anything. So I don't need to carry. Also another reason I carry is because when I am not at work I still may run into somebody who I locked up. Perfect example. The guy who I locked up of federal charges was set to be bailed out befor the fed charges were brought. He was going I live with a family member in the town where I live! I only found out in speaking with the officer from ATF he didn't know I was fom Bayonne. When he Lund out he told me to keep an eye out. There seems to be a lot of hating because I get to carry. It doesn't make me any better thn you, it's just part of my job. I think more people should be able to carry but that's not the case. If it bothers you that muh thn move or get into law enforcement. I chose tht job not for the money or for the fact I cn carry a gun all the time.

 

I do prison ministry and have threats against me.I have seen some of these guys out of prison, granted I have not had any problems, but I could. I had to go up against the school board in 2007 and it was in the news...all news. I was sent hate email, hate mail, bank account compromised, threatened annonomously. I called the police and was given the run around. I would walk around waiting for some left wing looney to jump me without any defense and had to limit where and when I would go out. You think you are the only one threatened? I have to go into chemical plants around Camden, Newark and so forth. Am I allowed to carry? No! There were sections where I would not go into these plants because it was simply too dangerous. If I can't carry, then neither can you off duty...I have every right to protect my well being and that of my family just as you do. Is one person's well being and safety more important than another? From this post, that is what I read. Are we a nation of laws or of men?

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

 

I do prison ministry and have threats against me.I have seen some of these guys out of prison, granted I have not had any problems, but I could. I had to go up against the school board in 2007 and it was in the news...all news. I was sent hate email, hate mail, bank account compromised, threatened annonomously. I called the police and was given the run around. I would walk around waiting for some left wing looney to jump me without any defense and had to limit where and when I would go out. You think you are the only one threatened? I have to go into chemical plants around Camden, Newark and so forth. Am I allowed to carry? No! There were sections where I would not go into these plants because it was simply too dangerous. If I can't carry, then neither can you off duty...I have every right to protect my well being and that of my family just as you do. Is one person's well being and safety more important than another? From this post, that is what I read. Are we a nation of laws or of men?

 

Ok I guess we are back to me. I never said that I was the only one threatened. I also agree you should have every right to protect yourself. I never stated otherwise. No one persons well being is more important than another. I have the right to carry and I will carry. Most people don't have a need like you or I might BUT they should still have the right to carry.

[djg0770 481]

Just like sanitation! Just a different function.

 

Not really - both are supposed to take out the trash...

 

 

In any case, if I really want to serve the public and my purpose is truly altruistic, my service would be in teaching America's youth. That's a noble profession, molding young minds so that your profession doesn't have to deal with shyttbags and scumsuckers. You can hold the position of LEO up as high as you like - the fact remains that we all have to eat and sleep, we all get 24 hours in a day, and this country NO ONE

[HINCHMAN 4]

The 'Only Ones' philosphy is a thing of the past. Police are becoming a special interest group like bankers and the oil industry.

If we all cant have permits, then no special dispensation for a retired police. They say that we do not have the responsibility to handle problems in socitey, well guess what, you retired, so neither do you.

We are all law abidng citizens, to imply that everyone else will run away, and you will be the ONLY ONE running to is full of balogna.

Permits for all, or permits for none, including cops who have retired and are no longer on the job, collecting huge pensions that the working public pays for while you all take on second careers to pay for whiny retired cops.

GET IN LINE WITH EVERYONE ELSE PAL.

[mikelets456 78]

Ok I guess we are back to me. I never said that I was the only one threatened. I also agree you should have every right to protect yourself. I never stated otherwise. No one persons well being is more important than another. I have the right to carry and I will carry. Most people don't have a need like you or I might BUT they should still have the right to carry.

 

Okay...thanks for your response. Agreed.

[BigHayden 77]

Exactly. After 25 to 30 years I retire and decide I dont have to do anything about anything. So I don't need to carry. Also another reason I carry is because when I am not at work I still may run into somebody who I locked up. Perfect example. The guy who I locked up of federal charges was set to be bailed out befor the fed charges were brought. He was going I live with a family member in the town where I live! I only found out in speaking with the officer from ATF he didn't know I was fom Bayonne. When he Lund out he told me to keep an eye out. There seems to be a lot of hating because I get to carry. It doesn't make me any better thn you, it's just part of my job. I think more people should be able to carry but that's not the case. If it bothers you that muh thn move or get into law enforcement. I chose tht job not for the money or for the fact I cn carry a gun all the time.

I am not going to be 70 when I retire. I will be in my late 40's early 50's. I would still get involved if I needed to and I will still carry.

 

So which is it? Are you going to carry or not? First you say you don't need to, and then you say you will. Are you sure you're a cop and not a politician?

 

You make very valid points that I agree with. I don't make the laws and don't hate on me because I get to carry. There seems to be a lot of animosity because police get to carry all the time. I can't understand your frustration but I do understand it. All I say is don't make it personal against LEO. It's the politicians

 

Nobody's "hating on you because you get to carry". We are all frustrated that because you got yours, you leave the rest of us to fend for ourselves. This is the same divide and conquer bullspit that the anti's pull when they go after "assault weapons" and the Fudds don't stand with us. We chastise them for the same behavior. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings that others are upset about their rights being trampled on and many LEOs don't seem to care because they have the rights the rest of us are fighting to get back.

 

If we have it so much better then why don't more people take the job. Are they scared, want better pay, what then? People love to talk about how police and firemen have it so much better but yet a lot of people don't take the job. Just more complaining as usual

 

This is the same as telling a black man in the south during the 1950's that he just be white and stop complaining. Rights belong to everyone regardless of your profession or skin color.

 

Wow after all this that is what you have to add. Thanks for your insightful input. You really brought a lot to this discussion. That's what I get for trying to type long responses on my phone.

 

Hopefully you aren't driving while typing on your phone, as that would be illegal.

 

 

6 pages and 100+ posts and what I'm hearing from us peons is that we want you to stand with us and fight to get our rights restored and not abandon us, and look down on us, because you have yours.

[BlueLineFish 615]

No driving while typing. I definitely don't look down on anybody just because they can't carry. That's absurd. If I cold help in any way I would. I send letters like others do. I can't change the laws myself. I actually support the legislation to honor all ccw permits in all 50 states. If that passes that would help jersey in the long run.

[XDJohnTact 49]

Obviously, you missed the "sarcasatic" smiley, but if you desire my .02, I will be happy to oblige. I don't care if you personally carry or not whether it is as a off duty or retired LEO. As long as they qualify, I am all for retired cops carrying guns.

 

Not sure when this thread went from a common interest to a personal agenda? But, you asked for input!

 

As a law abiding, tax payer, I am more than happy to see all police work for 20-25 years and then retire with the majority of their salary so that you can go out and get another full paying job and make twice as much as the common Joe. Who has to get up every day and go out and actually work. Most police I know already work two jobs because of all the free time that already get. Of course, those jobs are "under the table" so they are paying no taxes on that money.

 

Oh yeah, I know, riding around in cop cars all day and writing reports is soooo hard! Hell, I think they should get free coffee & donuts for life at any Dunkin Donuts?

 

While we are at it, since they are getting our taxpaying money once they retire, I think we should make all retired LEOs tax exempt too. We might as well throw in free health care for life for you and your family (wait, I think we already do that?). Of course, you will be exempt from following any traffic laws, all you have to do if you get stopped is flash your badge and a "courtesy" wil be extended to you, no matter what the infraction.

 

(flame suit on) (note semi-sarcastic hand)

[kenw 293]

No driving while typing. I definitely don't look down on anybody just because they can't carry. That's absurd. If I cold help in any way I would. I send letters like others do. I can't change the laws myself. I actually support the legislation to honor all ccw permits in all 50 states. If that passes that would help jersey in the long run.

The issue with that legislation is (and always has been) that even if passed, it wouldn't apply to your home state. So, if you're a NJ resident with a FL CCW, you could carry in any state that issues permits and allows its residents to CCW, except for NJ, because that's where you live. It's the same state's rights argument as retired LEO being allowed to carry by Federal law, but stepping on the toes of a state's right to limit CCW. The state knows that they'll run afoul of the equal treatment under the law issue, so they're trying to nip that argument in the bud for when the first lawsuit comes up with a plaintiff saying that equal rights is being applied unevenly so that even if reciprocity passes, the equal rights argument will be moot.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I just think it would help the ccw argument. How is it fair that non nj residents can carry in nj but new jersey residents can't.

[kenw 293]

I just think it would help the ccw argument. How is it fair that non nj residents can carry in nj but new jersey residents can't.

They can't. That's the point of excluding home state from the reciprocity law.

 

Nj would simply become a No Issue state, and they would be exempt from reciprocity. One of the first steps will be to stop recognizing retired LEO from carrying under LEOSA.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Obviously, you missed the "sarcasatic" smiley, but if you desire my .02, I will be happy to oblige. I don't care if you personally carry or not whether it is as a off duty or retired LEO. As long as they qualify, I am all for retired cops carrying guns.

 

Not sure when this thread went from a common interest to a personal agenda? But, you asked for input!

 

As a law abiding, tax payer, I am more than happy to see all police work for 20-25 years and then retire with the majority of their salary so that you can go out and get another full paying job and make twice as much as the common Joe. Who has to get up every day and go out and actually work. Most police I know already work two jobs because of all the free time that already get. Of course, those jobs are "under the table" so they are paying no taxes on that money.

 

Oh yeah, I know, riding around in cop cars all day and writing reports is soooo hard! Hell, I think they should get free coffee & donuts for life at any Dunkin Donuts?

 

While we are at it, since they are getting our taxpaying money once they retire, I think we should make all retired LEOs tax exempt too. We might as well throw in free health care for life for you and your family (wait, I think we already do that?). Of course, you will be exempt from following any traffic laws, all you have to do if you get stopped is flash your badge and a "courtesy" wil be extended to you, no matter what the infraction.

 

(flame suit on) (note semi-sarcastic hand)

 

I apparantly don't get Internet sarcasm...lol. Oh I don't really eat donuts but I do love coffee

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I eat donuts but hate coffee.............

 

Hey, I have a question for the LEO's on this forum, maybe it's been asked before, but I'll ask anyway: Would you want the average Joe Citizen to carry? (I'm talking about people allowed to purchase handguns, 21 and over).

 

If we were allowed to carry in this state I don't know if I would. Maybe keep one in my car, but I don't know if I would want to walk around with one everyday.

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

Because I'm smarter than most cops, make more money, and generally have a more relaxing life than them... So why would I take a pay cut to do a job that has so many downsides?

 

Like:

- You have to serve the interests of an inept government, and enforce bad laws that you know are wrong

- You aren't really serving and protecting anyone since you're always minutes late and a dollar short

- You get **** on by the inept government

- You get **** on by the community your charged to serve and protect because of you're inability to provide safety

- You have to work with other cops, who (from my experience), tend to be a bunch of narcissistic, condescending, screw-ups, who think that because they get nice bennies, a badge, uniform, and gun (and sometimes tazer), that they are better than the people they're supposed to serve.

- Your leadership isn't made up of police officers who served the community best and worked to make things better, but politically appointed hacks who are the same arrogant assholes that give the rest of the police a bad name.

- When you have to enforce the law on another LEO, you have to cut them a break because it's a 'professional courtesy'. You'd think they'd know better than to break the laws they are supposed to enforce... but oh wells. If you go hard on them, then they may call in a favor from their <insert male relative who is in a position of authority over yours> to make your life even more miserable

- You have to be politically correct... ('nuff said)

- You are held to terrible metrics like: How many people did you annoy today for speeding more than 10mph above the limit? How many of them were minorities? Women? Etc.

 

So yeah... you gotta be an idealist, a moron, or a power-hungry jackass to be a cop. It's sad, because the last two categories vastly outnumber the poor idealist who only wanted to serve and protect his community, but realized it's all a sham.

 

 

People wonder why cops sometimes take a them and us attitude. Read DA's first post for a reason. He does everything better than any cop except drive. I need to check out if guys on race driver forums bash cops on their driving like guys on gun forums bash cops about everything related to guns.

 

 

 

No one here is ragging on the good cops, but let's face it: the fact the profession is marred by the actions of a few bad apples, and few officers publicly speak out against those actions, is why you will always see hate towards LEOs...

 

It's not your fault KpdPipes, it's just the result of decades of corruption from within.

 

DA, according to your first post, "you gotta be an idealist, a moron, or a power-hungry jackass to be a cop." There isn't a single word about any good cops.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I eat donuts but hate coffee.............

 

Hey, I have a question for the LEO's on this forum, maybe it's been asked before, but I'll ask anyway: Would you want the average Joe Citizen to carry? (I'm talking about people allowed to purchase handguns, 21 and over).

 

If we were allowed to carry in this state I don't know if I would. Maybe keep one in my car, but I don't know if I would want to walk around with one everyday.

 

I'm retired and spent most of my career as a LEO with the Federal government. I have no problem with someone over 21 and elgible to buy a handgun carrying it. 21 as I'm sure we would all agree there is a big difference in maturity between 18 and 21. I'd most likely agree to let active duty military 18-20 carry also. I'm all for Constitutional Carry as long as prohibited persons get actual jail time if they are caught carrying.

 

 

[Underdog 1,593]

I feel it is a moral duty of mine to protect a woman getting the crap beat out of her as well...and I did. I had no gun, no protection just my conscience that told me to do so. I put my life at risk because I don't want to wait 5 minutes for a LEO to get there and live with the possibility that this woman is killed. I don't care about lawsuits and consequences... the thought of that woman being killed would be on my conscience for the rest of my life. If that were my daughter or wife I hope others would do the same.

 

The thing that bothers me is when I got my FID and permits I spoke to the Chief of police in my area. He was very pro-gun and very supportive until I mentioned carrying. At that point his attitude changed [completely] to arrogant. He even stated that most/all citizens are too stupid to carry and to rely on LEOs. "What"? I said. "I am not allowed to defend myself outside of the home"? That really ticked me off, because in reality me walking around without a firearm is in more dangerous or the same as an off duty LEO walking around without one as well.I encounter the same people that you do, I go to the same places and I have my family. What gives an off duty LEO a special right to protect your family when off duty? I have the right to protect my wife and three children just as you do. I would to like hear why you don't think I should have the Constitutional right to defend my family but you can.

 

BTW, my Grandfather and two uncles were Philadelphia cops for their entire lives so I am well aware and respect what you do. I am simply trying to understand why NJ LEOs have the mentality that honest citizens don't need to carry or should not be allowed to. Please, I mean no disrespect and apologize in advance if I seem so.

 

That view must come down from the top.

[KpdPipes 388]

 

 

People wonder why cops sometimes take a them and us attitude. Read DA's first post for a reason. He does everything better than any cop except drive. I need to check out if guys on race driver forums bash cops on their driving like guys on gun forums bash cops about everything related to guns.

 

 

 

 

DA, according to your first post, "you gotta be an idealist, a moron, or a power-hungry jackass to be a cop." There isn't a single word about any good cops.

 

No, No, No..you have it Backwards..it's us COPS who are the "Us vs Them" guys.... Welcome to our world.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I'm retired and spent most of my career as a LEO with the Federal government. I have no problem with someone over 21 and elgible to buy a handgun carrying it. 21 as I'm sure we would all agree there is a big difference in maturity between 18 and 21. I'd most likely agree to let active duty military 18-20 carry also. I'm all for Constitutional Carry as long as prohibited persons get actual jail time if they are caught carrying.

 

In NJ you can not purchase a handgun if you are not at least 21.

 

Listen, I know a lot of hot-heads that should never be allowed to carry, sure you have seen many too in your day.

 

As of now all LEO's in this state know 99% of the people they meet everyday (Joe Public) will not have a gun on their person. Now, the criminals that don't follow the law may have something, but unless you are in a bad area, you won't be running into many of them during the day.

 

Make the penalties STIFF for those that break the gun laws and ENFORCE THEM! (This is aimed to the lawyers and judges). Perp commits armed robbery put him/her away for 20 years min..................Etc, etc.................. I'm not talking about the "dumb" gun laws, god-forbid someone stops to get something to eat between the range and their home. I'm talking about real issues.

 

PS: Nothing aimed here at you GRIZ, thanks for the response.

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

No, No, No..you have it Backwards..it's us COPS who are the "Us vs Them" guys.... Welcome to our world.

 

You are correct, cops have the attitude. Non-cops (okay if i say that?) never have attitudes.

[Shane45 807]

Guys, IMO opinion it has degraded to banter.The "us them" discussion isnt terribly relative to the topic and in my opinion isnt even being applied corectly here..........lets move on.....

[johnoutdoors 10]

"I can not carry so retired LEO should not be able to either" and that IS a BS selfish stance.. the statement SHOULD read.. "a LEO life is just as valuable as mine.. I should be allowed to carry also"

 

the desire to limit another mans freedom so it equals your limited freedom IS jealousy.. the desire to increase your rights to match another mans freedom is fairness..

We may be jealous of a guy who has learned every nuance of poker and hits it big in AC. We might wish that we could be the lucky ones with all the money, but we don't fight to have the money taken away. We don't ask the government to take something from another to make ourselves feel equal. That is a different form of government that has its own discussions. We shouldn't strip the rights of the police, we should fight to have our rights given back to us. The OPs post was not about tickets, cell phones, speeding, or attitude, it was about NJ trying to take more gun rights away. Those other issues will always be a sore spot for anyone without a badge. Are we really so blind as to want others to be stripped of their rights? Whats next? Taking away CCW for PA residents and then the rest of the country? Well said Vlad.

[bulpup 98]

excuse the coloquial, but if some retired cop pops a carjacker we are all better off.

 

Ya, I want to carry too, but seriously, let's not throw the baby out... so to speak.

[Soju 153]

 

 

Make the penalties STIFF for those that break the gun laws and ENFORCE THEM! (This is aimed to the lawyers and judges). Perp commits armed robbery put him/her away for 20 years min..................Etc, etc.................. I'm not talking about the "dumb" gun laws, god-forbid someone stops to get something to eat between the range and their home. I'm talking about real issues.

 

 

This would be great, but you are operating under the assumption that

a) those who enforce, prosecute, judge, and create the laws have the same thought about "dumb" gun laws as you or I. They don't.

b) there is a way to distinguish between "dumb" gun laws and legitimate ones. Whether there is or not is debatable, but it doesn't work that way.

 

This "us vs. them" discussion is quite ironic. You need look no further than the posts in this thread, in which you have LEO's saying it isn't true, they don't have that attitude, but others might, and people who aren't LEO's saying it is true, and they don't have this attitude. In both sides pointing fingers at the other, both sides are unintentionally PROVING this is true. How can there be no "us vs them" when simply arguing with each other over that legitimacy is showing there is a different mentality between the two. Ironic to say the least..

[Stuntman22 16]

I joined NJ2As and paid my dues. It does not change my situation as I already have my permit. I put my money where my mouth is. I want CCW in NJ. We Need CCW in NJ

 

I’m all for everyone who is not a convicted felon the option to carry. I wish my sisters could carry a weapon. My one sister is a school teacher in Paterson. She is a little thing, very sweet and an easy target. The other is in real estate and shows houses/buildings to clients she does not even know. It's a recipe for disaster. I wish she too could carry.

While employed as a Police Officer and assigned to Motors, I worked in an area with many trucking companies. I knew many of the over the road guys had permits for their gats. I did not feel intimidated and actually liked the idea of “good guns". Providing they were not jackasses, they got a pass. Out of sight, out of mind. I locked up very few and the only one that stands out in my mind was one Florida trucker who pointed his .357 at another trucker over a road rage incident and the "victim" called the police. I never got subpoenaed so I guess he plead out.

 

Many guys I retired with didn’t even bother to apply for their retired permit to carry. They don’t work security and didn’t feel the need for it. To each his own. It's a law that I hold sacred and if I was ever in a position where I had to defend my Bride or my small children and could not, I could never forgive myself. That said, I will repeat what I said before, as long as you are not a convicted felon, you should be allowed to own/carry a weapon for self-defense. (A little training to go along with that big responsibility would also be nice)

Please, keep pushing to change the law. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

That said,

Lots of Cop bashing here, there really is. Whether you feel justified because of your negative run-ins with law enforcement or perceived injustices is your right. If you’re upset because the guy you gave a wedgie to in homeroom, became a cop and wrote you for rolling through that stop sign, changing the law that George Bush signed to allow me retired carry will not help your cause. If anything I would try to get more Law Enforcement on board with the 2A society. Remember, Police Chiefs and Sheriffs are politicians. What they spew is not necessarily the opinions of Rank and File guys.

 

Bash the Lautenbergs and the gun grabbing politicians. They are the ones “Keeping Homie Down” I always found it ironic that all the anti-gun politicians either had their own weapon or had an armed entourage.

Hate the game, NOT the Palya, but here on this board as most gun forums the hatred for the police is so blinding that logic does not really matter. I’ve met some terrific people on this board. I purchased 5 pistols that were real good deals. Tons of ammo, lots of good discussions, etc. It’s gotten to the point where it’s just best to keep my previous career a secret. It’s almost like a scarlet letter. You could have been Mother Theresa with a badge, you are still a scumbag. BTW, at what point do you become the scumbag? Is it when you pass the test? Get hired? Graduate the Academy? When you retire are you still a scumbag? Is there a way to unscumbag yourself? I know I’m not gonna change anyone’s mind about cops. I know there are some douchebag cops who make it look bad for all, but I’m sure that if I look close enough at any occupation, I will find a few ballbags. Police Departments hire from the Human Race. Until the Human race is perfect, there won’t be any perfect cops.

 

BTW not all cops get fat pensions (mine is average) nor are all guaranteed medical benefits. That’s up to the individual municipalities or agencies. Some departments that come to my mind have no retired medical are River Vale, Haworth, North Vale, Warren Township and many others. I think you have an option to purchase it from the State. My starting pay in 1986 was $18,500 and we bought all of our gear including weapons. My initial outlay for uniforms, leather coat, leather gear and 2 weapons were about 4k. I was broke as a joke. I just finished college and was living with Mom (God rest her soul)so I could swing it. There was a guy on the list ahead of me who was a Mechanical Draftsman with 2 small children. He wanted to be in Law Enforcement so bad but he could not swing the food stamp eligible pay so he had to turn the job down. What a shame. He would have been a great cop.

 

I have to stay in this state because I work in NYC. Also, my Brides umbilical cord is still attached to her Moms and she won’t leave the state. Or else I’d be outta here like Vladimir. To a more gun friendly State. Besides, where would I get good Pizza or good bagels?

 

When CCW’s are allowed, crime goes down. It’s easy as that. The blood does not run in the street. It’s the exact opposite. Criminals do like getting shot as much as I don’t. Taking away HR218 does not help your case. It only makes you feel better becuase of how you feel about law enforcement in general. Be honest with yourself.

[djg0770 481]

Stuntman - if I could give you more than one +1 I would. Well said, logically, without emotion, stating fact.

[blksheep 466]

I have stopped posting in this topic, but I have followed it. Well said. +1 sir.

[SpecialK 193]

As a Veteran I oppose any legislation that would give me the right to CCW and not the average citizen. Creating a pocket of people that have a right over others is WRONG and will only lead to a "us vs. them" situation eventually. The cops on here feeling that there are guys on here that want to strip the cops of their carry right so they would be equal must be drug units, because you must be high! The general consensus between all the non-LEO's here is that EVERYONE should be able to CCW. No one here is saying it would be ok for non-LEO's to carry, but not LEO's; funny how that works. If you want to support legislation that makes you have more rights than the people whose rights you are supposed to uphold and defend then you need to take a good look in the mirror because you are becoming the lackys for the government, not the protectors of the people. I am American, being a veteran of war does not entitle me to any extra rights than any other citizen of this great nation. As men who have taken the oath to up hold and defend the Constitution we need to stand with the people!