Kids, guns and school teachers

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I don't pay much attention to Christie, but I did raise two kids on my own, went to every back to school night and kept in contact with their teachers. Before every election the e-mails I recieved from the school made me want to puke. My current girlfriend has a freshman in high school who can barely read, but his report card doesn't reflect this. Great grades, can't fkn read? Give me a break. Not the schools fault, but let's not pretend this isn't going on.

Sounds like he's managing to slip through the cracks. Does anyone have him read or practice writing?

There is nothing to be gained by "manufacturing" grades.Teachers are generally rated by their overall effectiveness through classroom observations. I can tell you that kids are either motivated or there not, and schools are well aware of this. 50% of my students do poorly because they don't even bother to complete there work, and i have had the same students tell me numerous times they failed tests because they didn't study. I laugh when they ask to hand in work late, or retake a test... if this was middle school i would be more lenient, but in HS kids need to learn a deadline is a deadline, unless they have a reasonable excuse. Today, it's an even bigger joke to me, because for all intent and purpose they can find any answer on line i might ask them, and no work i give them would take any longer then 20mins to complete. I pride myself by putting my students interests first, i spend hours trying to figure out the best approach to a lesson and differentiating instruction, creating study guides, and half of them ignore it all. I end up picking a few of my handouts off the floor every class, yet i still give them out, even though i shouldn't. I don't punish the entire class because of a few. I also find that most of the poor performing students give up before they even try...

 

Something you all should realize before this goes any further, teaching is a JOB, and some turn it into a lifestyle. I am not here to raise your kid, give him moral and ethical values. I'm not paid to make sure your kid get's good grades, but i will influence them to do so. I cannot force a kid to learn. Almost all schools in NJ are the same, no matter where you go, if you want a steady and enjoyable career you have to follow the BS that comes with the job, you have to agree with admin or else they make your life hell. It's not a fun job by any means unless your actually teaching, which is the part i enjoy, but i do have to fall in line with the schools views or else they drop a steaming pile of crap on me... Sounds like just about every other job out there.

 

 

If you think this is ridiculous, just look into the HIB law. I can tell you that 90% of the crap i disagree with is NJ state law, and has nothing to do with schools, teachers or the union. The other 10% usually stems from political views. State law ussually makes teachers go to the extreme, where policies offer more leniency. I can ruffle a few feathers in admin over policy, but god forbid i don't report when two students get into a small verbal argument, and one of them files a HIB report, my a** would be pinned to the wall.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Our crappy school systems start with the administration, no doubt about it. I feel bad for the teachers that actually want to teach, but can't, they are told what they must do and they must follow their marching orders or their jobs becomes a living hell, it's politics, always has been.

 

Tenure is a very nasty subject to discuss with teachers. Until recently I was not aware that administrators also get tenured. What a frickin' joke. And where does all this come-from? We all know and don't need to bring it up again.

 

I have a friend that is a teacher and he and I both love to see a former student of his out in the real world making their way, like the rest of us did. He feels he has made a positive difference in someones life that really had no direction. That is what teaching should be about, not the horse-shit politics it has become.

 

/Rant-over.

[Regulator72 80]

So after talking with my son here's the scoop. He was at lunch and made a gun with his finger and said "Guuun" while letting out a burp. He does have better manners than that, however he is 7. The teacher states that it wasn't used in sentence so eliminates threats or violent talk..

 

I haven't spoken with the teacher yet, but I will follow the advice here and have a face to face. I didn't want this to turn into a teacher bashing thread, but I appreciate all sides of the discussion.

 

Copy of the note in his book from the teacher

 

Thanks for all the replies

[tony357 386]

His teacher has lousy hand writing, Also looks like she messed up spelling his name..

 

What grade is she in?

 

Oh i senior moment, She is in 1st grade..LOL..

[vjf915 456]

Tell the "teacher" to learn who the f*ck her students are.

[NicePants 58]

You should tell that teacher to take some handwriting classes.

[Qel Hoth 33]

You should tell that teacher to take some handwriting classes.

 

Seriously. I mean my handwriting is bad, but I was wondering what "cnot," "tallced," and "iSho" or "uSho" were...

[e80hydro 120]

Sounds like he's managing to slip through the cracks. Does anyone have him read or practice writing?

There is nothing to be gained by "manufacturing" grades.Teachers are generally rated by their overall effectiveness through classroom observations. I can tell you that kids are either motivated or there not, and schools are well aware of this. 50% of my students do poorly because they don't even bother to complete there work, and i have had the same students tell me numerous times they failed tests because they didn't study. I laugh when they ask to hand in work late, or retake a test... if this was middle school i would be more lenient, but in HS kids need to learn a deadline is a deadline, unless they have a reasonable excuse. Today, it's an even bigger joke to me, because for all intent and purpose they can find any answer on line i might ask them, and no work i give them would take any longer then 20mins to complete. I pride myself by putting my students interests first, i spend hours trying to figure out the best approach to a lesson and differentiating instruction, creating study guides, and half of them ignore it all. I end up picking a few of my handouts off the floor every class, yet i still give them out, even though i shouldn't. I don't punish the entire class because of a few. I also find that most of the poor performing students give up before they even try...

 

Something you all should realize before this goes any further, teaching is a JOB, and some turn it into a lifestyle. I am not here to raise your kid, give him moral and ethical values. I'm not paid to make sure your kid get's good grades, but i will influence them to do so. I cannot force a kid to learn. Almost all schools in NJ are the same, no matter where you go, if you want a steady and enjoyable career you have to follow the BS that comes with the job, you have to agree with admin or else they make your life hell. It's not a fun job by any means unless your actually teaching, which is the part i enjoy, but i do have to fall in line with the schools views or else they drop a steaming pile of crap on me... Sounds like just about every other job out there.

 

 

If you think this is ridiculous, just look into the HIB law. I can tell you that 90% of the crap i disagree with is NJ state law, and has nothing to do with schools, teachers or the union. The other 10% usually stems from political views. State law ussually makes teachers go to the extreme, where policies offer more leniency. I can ruffle a few feathers in admin over policy, but god forbid i don't report when two students get into a small verbal argument, and one of them files a HIB report, my a** would be pinned to the wall.

 

Apparently the only one who noticed was me. When I first met her 3 years ago, on her frig was a certificate saying he made the honor roll. He was in 7th grade. As a few months progressed, I noticed he had a lot of trouble reading and spelling. I asked his mother about it and she told me he was fine. I then asked her how he made the honor roll. Turns out, he was in the slow class. He was in the honor roll of the slow class. It was the pretend honor roll to boost self esteem. All it was doing was producing someone who will be on public assistance as an adult. I told her she needs to call the school and have a child study team look into this. The kid was lazy and wouldn't do his homework or make any attempt at bettering himself, because he, and his mother believed everything was great. They stuck him in regular classes in 8th grade, he struggled, his grades were lower but he was forced to work harder. To this day, I swear he's still only on a 4th grade reading level. He wiil not do any extra reading, won't do his accelerated reading assignments during summer vacation. This is more of a shit parent fault than the school. Somebody needs to speak up sometimes and say WTF.

[djg0770 481]

Seriously. I mean my handwriting is bad, but I was wondering what "cnot," "tallced," and "iSho" or "uSho" were...

 

Yeah, not so much.

 

What you see as "cnot" is clearly "(not", what you see as "tallced" is chick writing for "talked" with a loopy K and "iSho" is clearly "who" again, a loopy W. I've worked with people whose penmanship is so terrible that they can't figure out what they wrote nevermind anyone else making it out. This is not even remotely difficult to understand/decipher. I think Pharmacists probably have the hardest job in the world...

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I cringe at the thought of handwriting. If I need to write something professionally it is always typed. I know my handwriting isn't what I would consider neet, I've basically been typing on a computer my whole life. College actually made it worse, I learned how to write very fast and neglect neetness because I was the only one who had to read it... On a plus side no one ever asked me for my notes lol. When ever I have handwrite something now I actually make a draft first. As stupid as it seems, and clearly indicated I do not want to look incompitent because of poor handwriting.

[Sandy 44]

He pointed a finger and burped the word "gun" ?

 

Personally I do not think I would give that any attention from a disciplinary standpoint. Well , maybe I would say something about burping at meals then secretly laugh and wonder why he only burped a three letter word. When I was 7 I easily could have burped a 4 syllable word if I had gulped enough Knee Hi ( remember that drink?)

 

Wow , times have really changed . I remember all the boys in grade school chanting "here's my rifle , here's my gun , one is for killing and one is for fun" The one "for fun" was an obscene crotch grab. But , that was 5th or 6th grade or so in 1980.

 

Kid's obsessive sense of humor for things like sex and guns is not a new thing at all , despite what the anti violence campaign people would have you think. School shootings by children have always occurred. High profile cases like Columbine with a large amount of victims got people's attention going , understandably.

 

Funny , school shooting have escalated through the 2000's despite the very proactive anti gun campaigns in school. Now of course , guns have no place in school , but efforts to vilify the very word ( i.e , a note home for burping it , and not being allowed to portray a soldier on Halloween) and efforts to squash to notion that responsible gun ownership can exist , have done absolutely nothing to stop the violence. Hmmm.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

When I was 7 I easily could have burped a 4 syllable word if I had gulped enough Knee Hi ( remember that drink?)

 

Probably more my generation than yours, but for the sake of accuracy: Knee Hi is the stocking. NEHI was the soda - grape or orange.

[Sandy 44]

Yes , the commercial featured all the kids rolling up their pants in preparation for the large grape soda flood coming down the street

[njpilot 671]

Yeah, not so much.

 

What you see as "cnot" is clearly "(not", what you see as "tallced" is chick writing for "talked" with a loopy K and "iSho" is clearly "who" again, a loopy W. I've worked with people whose penmanship is so terrible that they can't figure out what they wrote nevermind anyone else making it out. This is not even remotely difficult to understand/decipher. I think Pharmacists probably have the hardest job in the world...

 

I had no problem reading it. Maybe because my handwriting sucks too.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I'd send a stern letter back but don't insult the teacher. They do have your kid a lot and can affect their future.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Hand writing and grammar and spelling aside. I'm sorry I just cant support the teachers position and I would very strongly and politely let the teacher know that you do not consider GUN to be a violent word at all.

 

Now if the teacher could elaborate in what context the word gun was used, and if used in a way that can be views as causing harm with a gun, then that would be a different story, but thats not the case.

 

I would also try and for just the teachers benefit let the teacher know, that unless there was something destructive other then just the word GUN, that you feel very strongly this is a non-event and not one you would like for the teacher to blow out of proportion in the future. If the teacher is not ok with that, you would escalate it to the next level.

 

Remember teachers are there to teach our children the subjects they are there to teach, not to raise our children, thats our job as parent's. Also they are not to teach a belief while you will never completely get away from that, right or wrong, the teacher now needs to know that you, your house and your family's position on the 2A and guns are just that and it's not the teachers position to teach or try to change that.

[e80hydro 120]

Send a polite note back asking her to stick to the cirriculum outlined by the state, and not push her liberal socialistic views on your child.

[Mo Vice 7]

I can understand her side like I said, what bothers me is that she wrote that she heard he said the word gun and "we talked about not saying violent words"

 

This would bother me too. If the word "gun" is violent, how do history lessons go in the teacher's class?

[Recon Racoon 49]

I'd write a note back thanking the teacher for the note, but explaining since the word 'gun' wasn't used in any negative connotation you see this as a non-event. I would also mention the possibility of a parent-teacher conference to discuss this further if the teacher has any other questions, and to also use that time to discuss how you're child is doing in school. Figure if you're going in a for a conference you'd might as well hit all the major talking points.

 

As to how crappy the NJ core curriculum is. Yeah its crappy. I didn't like having to take biology, or Spanish because neither one interested me in any way, shape, or form. Once you hit high school now, you have to fight with the administration to get the classes you want. Its ridiculous.

[BigHayden 77]

What if a kid brought a gun to school and killed a bunch of kids including your child. Later you find out the teacher overheard the shooter talking about a gun a day earlier and did nothing. How would you feel?

 

In a school we have to treat every situation in a serious matter. The teacher sent a note home and called the word gun a violent word (which I don't agree with). A simple meeting with the teacher to explain your position will go a lot further than a lot of the suggestions on here.

 

How about the reverse of that... What if you sent a note home and the kid brought in a gun anyway? How would you feel? I guess your conscience would be clear because you sent home a note. Yay you! (Sucks being patronized, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure the rest of the members on here don't like it either. )

 

Also, I read all three pages of responses, and the majority of the suggestions were to meet with the teacher and be polite. Yes, there are a few that were funny, but anyone with any brains can see that those responses were supposed to be funny, and nobody really means that he should shoot holes in the note and return it. See what I did there? I applied common sense and context to the situation to determine that the appropriate response is not SWAT or even a note, but that a simple chuckle will suffice.

[MarkWVU02 47]

 

 

How about the reverse of that... What if you sent a note home and the kid brought in a gun anyway? How would you feel? I guess your conscience would be clear because you sent home a note. Yay you! (Sucks being patronized, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure the rest of the members on here don't like it either. )

 

Also, I read all three pages of responses, and the majority of the suggestions were to meet with the teacher and be polite. Yes, there are a few that were funny, but anyone with any brains can see that those responses were supposed to be funny, and nobody really means that he should shoot holes in the note and return it. See what I did there? I applied common sense and context to the situation to determine that the appropriate response is not SWAT or even a note, but that a simple chuckle will suffice.

 

I was going to leave this thread alone because I didn't want to sit and type out a long response but I guess I should answer you. Would my conscience be cleared? Hell no. Would I at least know I tried something? Hell yeah it's better than sitting there doing nothing about it. I've followed this thread closely and don't see how you find some of the responses funny but hey that's you not me. I have to deal with this everyday and you just have there and judge me for what I do. Pointing a finger and saying gun to a kid has no place in a school anymore in light of how many school shootings there are. Somebody brought up a good point you don't say bomb on a plane and there are far fewer plane bombings than school shootings. The teacher didn't make a big deal about it she sent a quick note in which looks to be a notebook she updates the parents with. I think she did a great job and just shows she's involved and pays attention to what happens in her classroom. All I said was don't make a big deal out of it and schedule a meeting and I get attacked like I'm violating people's second amending rights. News flash I'm a big supporter of gun rights. I'm also a teacher and am forced to take every situation seriously, which this teacher did by sending the note home. Administration wasn't involved so what's really the big deal? It appears by the note cut off at the top that she updates the parents on a fairly regular basis. We keep these parent logs to send home too, but usually only do it for the kids who are struggling or have a behavior problem. I don't know the OP, his kid, or the school so I don't know if she does it for every child or just the ones who need it. In my case if I have a notebook like this it usually means there have been many issues leading up to this. Once again it may be very different for the OP and his kids school.

 

For those who blame the teachers for a lack of science and social studies should really start blaming their precious republicans. It was them who passed the NCLB act that basically crippled schools. Standardized tests have been proven time and time again to be a huge failure. The sad part is special education kids have to take those tests and it counts on the schools average. I have a student that should be in 3rd grade but is functioning at a pre-k level. What is a child like that going to do for the average? If we fail our budget gets cut. Imagine that...your school is struggling so they take money away from it. The NCLB legislation has increased the cost to educate children, led to social promotion (which might be how the poor reader from a few posts ago ended up where he is), and forced schools to abandon old school subjects to focus on math and reading for the test (which I find a disgrace). Do you think we like this? Hell no I miss teaching history but I have to do what I'm told to do.

 

For all the NJEA haters out there. Do you feel the same way about the PBA or IBEW. What about firemen's unions or unions for factory workers. Name one union that doesn't get involved in politics. The NJEA is there to protect our wages and our jobs which is important because many people have no idea how little teachers really make. Tenure does not guarantee you a job and say you can't get fired. It states they have to give you due process to fire you after 3 years teaching. It's extremely valuable to many because a vindictive parent can't get you fired for failing his kid(I've seen it). You don't have to worry about an administrator that's out to get you, or a supervisor who doesn't agree with you (seen and dealt with this myself). Believe me I've seen tenured teachers fired before. But I've also seen good teachers let go on their 3rd year so they could save money next year by hiring someone on a lower pay scale. Unions are there to protect their workers why should ours be any different. Why shouldn't they get involved in politics like the other unions? We don't have a right to try to steer education in the right direction? Believe it or not most teachers care about your kids just as much as you do. Most want to see them succeed and go on to be more successful than them.

 

New Jersey schools score in the top 5 in almost every educational category in the nation. When you look at how many students are impoverished those number are even more astounding. Kids in NJ get some of the best education in the country.

 

You all need to realize we don't pick the curriculum. We don't pick the core standards. We just go to work and do the best we can with what we're given. I think Jersey's numbers speak for themselves.

 

In the end this is a job, but unlike many jobs you really need to care about the kids and love what you do. Are there bad teachers out there? Sure just like there are bad cops and bad people in pretty much every job but when you look at the bigger picture NJ is well ahead of most of the nation.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I'd write a note back thanking the teacher for the note, but explaining since the word 'gun' wasn't used in any negative connotation you see this as a non-event. I would also mention the possibility of a parent-teacher conference to discuss this further if the teacher has any other questions, and to also use that time to discuss how you're child is doing in school. Figure if you're going in a for a conference you'd might as well hit all the major talking points.

 

As to how crappy the NJ core curriculum is. Yeah its crappy. I didn't like having to take biology, or Spanish because neither one interested me in any way, shape, or form. Once you hit high school now, you have to fight with the administration to get the classes you want. Its ridiculous.

I suggest actually looking at the NJCCCS, especially for science. It is probably the most broad standard. The fact is, you have to take stuff you are not interested in, its called being a well rounded educated individual. To make matters worse you don't even get to learn anything "fun". You learn the basics, but you cant get to the fun stuff with out first learning the basics. The issue is, you have to love teaching science in order to make your students enjoy it. Core standards just dictate the material a student must learn, has nothing to do with all the extra stuff i throw into my lessons to spruce up some interest. I also get to pick what ever labs we perform, they just have to be on budget and part of the unit. Good science teachers are very hard to find simply because it takes a decent amount of effort to make lessons enjoyable for everyone. I did not start to really enjoy my Bio classes until i was in my third year of college, and it was because of everything i previously learned that made it interesting. Virology and Pharmacology were the best classes i took, but with out a bio foundation, i wouldn't have made it 2 days in either class with out my head exploding.

 

 

It's easier to put it this way, if you u have never taken a course in Biology, its like never taking a course in reading.

You don't get to read your super cool spy novel with out first reading green eggs and ham.

I hate Math, but after calc 2 and stats, i still hate it and find it boring and uninteresting, but i'm actually pretty good at math.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Also it shows how petty people are that they're busting her handwriting. She wrote the note at the end of the day probably when she's trying to get them their homework, packed up, and on their way. If she does a notebook like that for every student in her class (avg class size 26 let's say) then imagine how fast she has to write to get them all done. It's not like she's sitting around all day she does have to teach a class.

[when_shtf 4]

Let the teacher know that it's:

 

I heard him say

 

NOT

 

"I heard he say"

 

What a dumbass! All over making a "fart gun".

[MarkWVU02 47]

Let the teacher know that it's:

 

I heard him say

 

NOT

 

"I heard he say"

 

What a dumbass! All over making a "fart gun".

 

Try brushing up on your reading skills. She wrote "I heard he said" meaning someone else told her. She states she wasn't with them at lunch so the lunch teacher probably told her hence the use of the phrase "I heard he said". She never states she heard him so she didn't say I heard him say. Nice try though.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Let the teacher know that it's:

 

I heard him say

 

NOT

 

"I heard he say"

 

What a dumbass! All over making a "fart gun".

 

Dude, i think your the dumb a**, read it again.

[woodentoe 14]

Dude, i think your the dumb a**, read it again.

 

This.

 

oh, and "you're"

[JackDaWack 2,895]

As i recall, after an incident when i was in middle school, making "fake guns" with your hand got you 2 weeks suspension. I dunno if they really took it that far, but the cops were involved, and a couple kids got in trouble because they were "joking around" and one kid took it seriously.... but u know how kids joke. It was blow way out of proportion.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

This.

 

oh, and "you're"

I'll make sure to dot my i's and cross my t's just for you.

[Regulator72 80]

Just as an fyi, we asked for the journal to be sent home every few days so we could know how school was and if any issues, good or bad came up. Ever ask a 7 year old how school was? FINE... thats it :-). Not sure if you can read the top part, but 90% of the entries are all excellent. She does this for all students and also sent home some paperwork about putting him in an accelerated class. His issues (talking and being 7) typically arise from boredom, finishing his assignments quickly (and correctly) and chatting with classmates that are still doing the work. Our town has 1/2 day kindergarten, so last year he went to kindergarten and then to a kindergarten enrichment program after. They basically taught 1st grade stuff, so being ahead, sometimes is counter productive.

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to bash the teacher or any teacher, I just don't agree with how it was handled. Should violence be a thought when he sees a cop with a gun? Again, I understand the background of it all and the events that took place in schools around the world, but come on already, the word used in a playful manner does no harm.

 

Please also remember that as members of this site we are all here for the same reasons and for the love of our sport.. group hug??