A Witness Speaks........

[hd2000fxdl 422]

 

 

He's brought into the station in cuffs which would indicate he was initially arrested.

 

I'm not saying he's guilty but come on you can't honestly believe without a reasonable doubt that this man is 100% innocent?

 

I can honestly say I wasn't there, I don't know what really happened and probably the only reason it's where it is is due to public perception and attention. Not to mention people who have other agendas getting in on it for additional media time.

[Sigman 41]

http://njgunforums.c...colypse-thread/

 

Much to learn Harry, Rick and Sandy. -1s for you all.

 

-1 for what? I wasn't referring to your thread. Someone + me for that.

[johnp 45]

-1 for what? I wasn't referring to your thread. Someone + me for that.

 

I got ya covered.

[Old School 611]

 

 

-1 for what? I wasn't referring to your thread. Someone + me for that.

 

Rick- You're probably the easiest going guy on the forum. And though I love him dearly Ray is an asshat.

Take it as that. I plus oned you. Not that it matters.

[woodentoe 14]

 

He's brought into the station in cuffs which would indicate he was initially arrested.

 

I'm not saying he's guilty but come on you can't honestly believe without a reasonable doubt that this man is 100% innocent?

 

First off, this entire incident is troubling to me. It appears to me that a massive misunderstanding took place and as a result one person had to kill another. I definitely feel that it is in everyones best interest to get the straight dope on what happened. If Zimmerman violated his ccw by illegally brandishing his weapon and used arrest powers that he doesn't have, that's a big deal. If trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman And forced him to stand his ground and the lesson is you fugg with someone at your own risk, that is also a big deal.

 

With regards to this video: the article states that the video shows no obvious injuries to Zimmerman. Semantically, this is true. However, it is only true because the image is not of high enough resolution to show almost ANYTHING. this is an example of the media taking a piece of information and crafting their headline around their desired narrative. There is no WAY you could ascertain how severe of a head injury was on the back of zimmermans head. There is no way, at the angle shown, that you can see whether his nose is swollen or not. I'm sure they took pictures of his injuries for the possible court proceedings. Those will be a little thing called evidence.

 

All it takes is a photo of Zimmerman the next day with two black eyes and you know he got his nose broken.

 

Furthermore, Mark, it is irrelevant if you or anyone else think George zimmerman is 100% innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. Rather, the opposite is true, sir. Do you believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that George zimmerman is GUILTY? That is the relevant question.

 

Everything else is speculative noise.

[Sigman 41]

FELLAS !!!!!

 

 

11 pages and what has been solved.....??????????????

 

I bailed on watching this thread but just came back.....

 

You are all starting to piss on one another for NO REASON !........

 

Take a step back....re-evalutate.... this thread is NOT worth beating each other up for (verbally) and possibly ruining friendships etc....

 

 

 

THEY ARE/WERE BOTH ASSHATS NO MATTER HOW THE FACTS SHAKE OUT............

 

+1 to that! This is how the libs try to divide us. We have enough problems of our own in NJ, why go on about nonsense that has no bearing on us.

[67gtonut 847]

+1

Exactly.... Let's not piss on each other

A troubled teenager ran into over zealous community watchdog and it went south..

And the media has turned it into a circus

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

[Sandy 44]

http://njgunforums.c...colypse-thread/

 

Much to learn Harry, Rick and Sandy. -1s for you all.

 

You're such a brat !

[Greydaddy 2]

Some of the names in my Fiancee's classes (She's a teacher in Newark):

Shainahyla

Al-Basir

Jy’Ell

Kimora

Najeeyah

Keeshawn

Zimbreah

Jariah

Asada

Onaji

Jac’Quil

La’Shonte

Quado’u

Aquille

Tanajah

Janiyah

Milca

Ah-Sadda

Osariemen

Chinedu

Bi-yonce

Basim

This is what I meant, not specifically the name Trayvon.

[MarkWVU02 47]

I'm not arguing or pissing on anyone just trying to cast doubt to Zimmerman's innocence. That's how a debate works. I've learned a lot from this thread.

 

My point with the video is the police report dates Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and back of his head. He had several gashes on the back of his head one of which "probably required stitches". It also says he had grass stains on his back.

 

The video isn't clear but his clothes look neat, not like a guy that just fought for his life. A nose bleeds like crazy. No blood on the shirt. Paramedics treated him at the scene, they didn't bandage that huge gash on the back of his head that should have gotten stitches? Things just don't seem to add up.

 

I'm not placing guilt or innocence on either party just saying there isn't enough evidence to suggest Zimmerman is definitely innocent.

[BarkNBite 15]

Or Guilty either..............IMO

[MarkWVU02 47]

Or Guilty either..............IMO

 

Oh I definitely agree with that but if we can't say he's 100% innocent or 100% guilty shouldn't it be decided in a court of law like our constitution says? By letting the police decide to let Zimmeman go aren't we then proving Martin guilty? Shouldn't Martin have the same rules applied to him that he's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? See where I'm going here? I'm not saying either is innocent or guilty but we're assuming innocence and guilt when the facts just aren't there. In that case wouldn't a trial be warranted?

[Malsua 1,422]

In that case wouldn't a trial be warranted?

 

A grand jury decides if there is going to be an indictment. The trial would only come after that if a prosecutor agrees there is a case that can be prosecuted.

 

So if a grand jury doesn't indict, will you be satisfied? I doubt it, you've bought the meme that a guy joined the neighborhood watch so he could go menace black people and gun them down in cold blood.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Everything is so clouded by opinions right now the only sensible thing is to wait for the grand jury. Then the truths will come out. It still won't appease everybody but it will maybe bring some closure

[MarkWVU02 47]

 

 

A grand jury decides if there is going to be an indictment. The trial would only come after that if a prosecutor agrees there is a case that can be prosecuted.

 

So if a grand jury doesn't indict, will you be satisfied? I doubt it, you've bought the meme that a guy joined the neighborhood watch so he could go menace black people and gun them down in cold blood.

 

Actually a grand jury doesn't have to make the decision in Florida. I just read up on it last night. It goes to the head prosecutor. He or she can turn it down, decide for trial, or pass it along to a grand jury. I thought the same thing but apparently it's not the case.

[MarkWVU02 47]

Also I've never said in any of my posts whether either was innocent or guilty. I said there is a lot of doubt and it should be decided by a jury instead of a police department that Zimmerman has connections with. You guys seem so quick to jump down my throat that I believe you're not reading my posts carefully. I really don't know what happened but to let Zimmerman go when there is so much doubt doesn't seem right to me.

[MarkWVU02 47]

"A special prosecutor said she hoped to decide without a grand jury whether to arrest Zimmerman.

 

"I always lean towards moving forward without needing the grand jury in a case like this," Angela Corey told The Miami Herald. "I foresee us being able to make a decision and move on it on our own."

 

Corey, a state attorney in Jacksonville, Fla., was named special prosecutor in charge of the case by Florida Gov. Rick Scott last week as a result of growing protests and complaints by civil rights leaders and others that local authorities had botched the investigation"

[BlueLineFish 615]

You also can't arrest without enough probable cause. In this case I think a grand jury would be best. If a group of people choose not to indict its better than one person making a decision.

[johnp 45]

"A special prosecutor said she hoped to decide without a grand jury whether to arrest Zimmerman.

 

That goes directly against the 5th Amendment.

 

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.^[

[greatgunstatenj 32]

That goes directly against the 5th Amendment.

 

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.^[

 

To my knowledge, being arrested and arraigned are two different things. People get arrested all the time and never arraigned. Police arrest, prosecutors arraign sometimes with the help of grand juries if the charges are serious felonies. The GJ may actually add charges also. So I don't think it violates the 5th for her to have the police arrest Zimmerman.

[Sandy 44]

I've laid this to rest in my mind until there is a press conference with all the evidence and details for both sides presented by a person authorized to do so. Case in point - I just heard on 1010wins that the Funeral Director made a statement that there was no damage on Trayvon's hands indicating that he had punched anything. He said his hands were clean , unbruised , unbroken. Now , why is a funeral director releasing info that an autopsy should conclude? This is a guy that is handling a body how long after the fact? Was there an autopsy done?

 

If so , ballistics and other details should tell a lot.

 

The point is you have funeral directors making forensics conclusions , bad video footage of a seemingly uninjured Zimmerman, 2 people with less than stellar personal histories , no witnesses as of yet that have come forward that saw the physical contact between the two from start to finish.

 

There is too much "evidence" both exonerating and incriminating both sides of this circus at this point . I need to see a press conference with one guy in a suit talking and all the facts organized and presented at one time in order to form any other opinions on this.

[johnp 45]

To my knowledge, being arrested and arraigned are two different things. People get arrested all the time and never arraigned. Police arrest, prosecutors arraign sometimes with the help of grand juries if the charges are serious felonies. The GJ may actually add charges also. So I don't think it violates the 5th for her to have the police arrest Zimmerman.

 

That just seems contradictory to me.

 

Wasn't he arrested at the scene? All the clips we've seen of him walking around a police station in handcuffs, wasn't he at that time under arrest?

[MarkWVU02 47]

 

 

That just seems contradictory to me.

 

Wasn't he arrested at the scene? All the clips we've seen of him walking around a police station in handcuffs, wasn't he at that time under arrest?

 

Now I'm not to sure about that. Maybe our LEO members could chime in. Aren't people sometimes handcuffed that aren't under arrest just for the officers safety until everything is figured out?

[Jon 264]

Now I'm not to sure about that. Maybe our LEO members could chime in. Aren't people sometimes handcuffed that aren't under arrest just for the officers safety until everything is figured out?

 

Yes. I'm sure he went to the PD to give a statement, and I assume he was cuffed for Officer Safety.

[MarkWVU02 47]

 

 

+1 to that! This is how the libs try to divide us. We have enough problems of our own in NJ, why go on about nonsense that has no bearing on us.

 

I don't think it's the "libs" that try to divide us instead I think it's the extreme rich and privileged (politicians and the sort) who try to divide the lower and middle classes. If we're kept at war with each other we'll never see the true enemy and rise up. There's an interesting book called "The Rich Get Richer, The Poor Get Prison" check it out sometime...it was recommended to me by an FBI agent who taught a criminology class at WVU and it really made me look at things quite differently.

 

We'll all hung up on these terms liberal and conservative and republican and democrat yet they're the ones laughing all the way to the bank. The true color divide isn't black or white...it's green.

[MarkWVU02 47]

 

 

Yes. I'm sure he went to the PD to give a statement, and I assume he was cuffed for Officer Safety.

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking.

[KpdPipes 388]

Oh I definitely agree with that but if we can't say he's 100% innocent or 100% guilty shouldn't it be decided in a court of law like our constitution says? By letting the police decide to let Zimmeman go aren't we then proving Martin guilty? Shouldn't Martin have the same rules applied to him that he's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? See where I'm going here? I'm not saying either is innocent or guilty but we're assuming innocence and guilt when the facts just aren't there. In that case wouldn't a trial be warranted?

 

The "Police" didnt decide to let him go..the State's Attorney (their equivalent of County prosecutor) made the decision not to charge Zimmerman at the time of the Incident.

[KpdPipes 388]

That just seems contradictory to me.

 

Wasn't he arrested at the scene? All the clips we've seen of him walking around a police station in handcuffs, wasn't he at that time under arrest?

 

Investigative Detention...one step below "Arrest"

[KpdPipes 388]

To my knowledge, being arrested and arraigned are two different things. People get arrested all the time and never arraigned. Police arrest, prosecutors arraign sometimes with the help of grand juries if the charges are serious felonies. The GJ may actually add charges also. So I don't think it violates the 5th for her to have the police arrest Zimmerman.

 

A lot depends on where you are..in NYC, an arrest stays in custody until they are arraigned..which is why NYPD arrests take 24 hours sometimes. With us here in NJ it depends on the specific charge, and the circumstances. if it is a Non-indictable (Misdemeanor) offense, then a Summons complaint is issued with a court date, and the prisnoenr is released, that court date is the Arraignment, where the individual Pleads guilty or not, and subsequent arrangements are made for Trial and Attorney. if it is an Indictable offense, but not a Serious crime, sometimes the Judge will still allow a Summons complaint, although the court date then will be for Central Judicial Processing (Arraignment) at the Superior Court Level. The other option is an indictable Offense, where there is a serious crime, a lengthy Crimninal History, or other warrants, where the individual will have a Warrant Complaint and a Bail set to ensure appearance. If the person is Bailed out, then they are issued a CJP Court date for their Arraignment, if they are NOT bailed out, then they will go to CJP for arraignment on the next Business day. Everyplace doesnt things their own way, but EVERYONE is "Arraigned" meaning they are given an opportunity to Plead Guilty or not Guilty, and request an Attorney

[MarkWVU02 47]

 

 

The "Police" didnt decide to let him go..the State's Attorney (their equivalent of County prosecutor) made the decision not to charge Zimmerman at the time of the Incident.

 

You're right I'm sorry. The lead investigator wanted to press charges. The State's attorney didn't want to go through with it.

 

I still find it strange that the son of a judge is just let go when there are so many open ends. I mean that kind of stuff happens in Jersey all the time but beautiful sunny Florida?