Lasers for defense, a gimmick or the real deal?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

It seems everywhere I look in magazines or the interenet of on TV shows that lasers are the best thing you could get on a defensive firearm (besides a light). Now, I'm all about lights on guns but lasers? I've owned some, shot some and played with a bunch. I really don't get it. They make great training tools but I can't see them in any real world use.

 

What say you?

[1563621 388]

Forget the laser. In a critical situation-NFG. split second to activate-and you are dead! Practice,practice,practice! Forget the laser.

[bbk 188]

If a person trains with lasers as much as anything else, why not? But that's the point-- training. Why spend the money on a system that can range anywhere from hundreds to thousands of dollars when that can be put towards training of fundamentals via classes or simply trigger time at the range?

 

I would also say that I don't see the point of a civilian using a NOD/IR laser combo in most realistic situations. I know there are some hi-speed low-light/no-light classes where these are useful, but still. In the end though, its not my money and not my reasoning that matters so I don't really care.

 

ETA: I think there is also a misunderstanding of what lasers are used for by the military (I can't speak for the LEOs as I don't have any experience from that perspective). Systems like the PEQ15A and PEQ2 are designators and illuminators. The Illumination aspect has nothing really to do with the actual laser, so, forget that. The designator function is similar to the concept of tracer rounds. It shows where the rounds are to be put on target at the basic level. But going higher up the tiers, it helps CAS and even overhead systems be able to mark as well. I think video games make them seem like they're for aiming and whatnot, but that's not really the case.

[mcbethr 42]

The military uses lasers mostly as designators - ie: shoot over there. You can even get special filters for the PEQ-15 so that your laser can be a box shape, a triangle, a crescent, a cross and so on, that way you can give one shape to one team and a different shape to another team, making it easier for the support by fire team to know where they should shoot.

 

Lasers can also be used for escalation of force. The PEQ-15 has a visible light red laser. If you want somebody's car to slow down, place the red light right on the driver's forehead. Everybody, no matter what mud hut they've lived in, has seen the movie Predator. Nothing will lock up a car's breaks faster than a laser dot on a person's grape.

 

I think that lasers are useful for people who are older and their eyes aren't what they used to be. I also think that grip-activated lasers are good for self-defense because they are instant-on. Button-activated lasers are less useful because you are fumbling around for a button while scared out of your mind.

 

But I also see a use for them in what the police call "constructive force." I don't want to shoot anybody, I just want the bad guy to go away. Shooting somebody is the absolutely last thing you ever want to do. If you have a red laser pointing down your stairwell while shouting - "I am armed, get out! The police are on their way!" I think the bad guy will decide to rob somebody else. Is it my primary hope? No. Do I think it could work? Yes. I don't think any criminal would want to face an armed homeowner, even if they were armed as well.

 

Do I advocate that the average civilian should point a laser at somebody, hoping that they will just go away? No. If the bad guy is dangerous enough to point a gun at, they are dangerous enough to shoot. You aren't a cop or a soldier in combat who has to follow escalation of force.

 

Now you can get into the details of "what-if"... "What if they are high on PCP?" "What if there is more than one bad guy?" "What if there are 20 ninjas downstairs who have special boots that can climb walls?" "Do you really want your location revealed?" Well, you can what-if lots of things, but if you have a laser, you can use it and increase your range of options. If you don't have a laser you can do none of them.

 

That being said, I only have one laser and it's on my CX4 Storm, which is basically the only gun I have set up for HD. I take it to the range once in a while and make sure it's zeroed at 7 yards. It's more of a cool range toy for me than anything. But if I ever have to use it, it's there and it has a pressure switch on the grip for instant on if needed.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Ray I'm with you as far as lasers go. I agree with mcbethr as far as using them for escalation of force. They're probably useful for Correction Officers depending on their use of deadly force policy which I'm not familiar with.

[PK90 3,573]

Gimmick

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Ray I'm with you as far as lasers go. I agree with mcbethr as far as using them for escalation of force. They're probably useful for Correction Officers depending on their use of deadly force policy which I'm not familiar with.

Gimmick

 

Yet, they sell like hot cakes and these companies come out with new models that are smaller, easier to mount and cheaper every day. I don't know, maybe I'm becoming my dad. Grumpy and old and hating new fangled gadgets and widgets.

[Socom 19]

Lasers are pimp!; just like you ray!

[when_shtf 4]

For home defense, total BS. Think about it, if someone is in your home, you are within 2 to 5 yards of the intruder/target. A blind man can hit a center-mass target at that distance. Furthermore, if you are tracking someone, protecting YOUR element of surprise, a laser can give up that advantage.

[Ian S 22]

...

Lasers can also be used for escalation of force. The PEQ-15 has a visible light red laser. If you want somebody's car to slow down, place the red light right on the driver's forehead. Everybody, no matter what mud hut they've lived in, has seen the movie Predator. Nothing will lock up a car's breaks faster than a laser dot on a person's grape.

...

 

 

... I agree with mcbethr as far as using them for escalation of force...

 

If you're driving, how would you know there is a red light on your forehead?

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

If you're ever in a fight and injured to the point that you can't raise your long arm to your shoulder/raise your pistol to eye level then you'll likely be glad to have a laser.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

If you're ever in a fight and injured to the point that you can't raise your long arm to your shoulder/raise your pistol to eye level then you'll likely be glad to have a laser.

 

point shooting will work in this point, and who will focus (let alone find) a laser at that point in fight.

[RecessedFilter 222]

point shooting will work in this point, and who will focus (let alone find) a laser at that point in fight.

 

You mean like dusting clays from the hip with a pistol-grip shotgun!?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

You mean like dusting clays from the hip with a pistol-grip shotgun!?

 

exactly, I guess

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

 

 

 

If you're driving, how would you know there is a red light on your forehead?

 

You most likely will see a reflection on the windshield. Even in UOF escalation their use is very limited.

[ruger9 0]

I do see them as being helpful for people with sight issues (age, or whatever), for HD/SD.

 

The "bad guy running when he sees a laser" is a good point, and goes right along with "bad guy running when he hears my shotgun rack" I posted in another thread (and was much maligned for). But I agree- it certainly can't hurt, and might keep you from having to shoot someone.

 

That being said, I don't have lasers on my pistols, and have no desire to. But for my 77-year-old mom who doesn't train? Sure.

 

I do feel like the "laser thing" can almost be lumped in with the "zombie thing" at this point, the marketing trying to make you feel unsafe or incomplete without it.

[BullzeyeNJ 104]

I have laser grips on my little s&w 640-1 snubby revolver. That guy has the tiny front and rear sights buried into the frame. Tough for me to get a sight picture. The laser dot is an instant point and shoot which is a huge upgrade from the barely visible sights. I'm a lot more accurate with the laser than I am with the iron sights on that firearm.

[JayWilling 33]

I don't have lasers on my pistols. Wife has one on her favorite revolver.

If you're bada** enough to figure you are always going to be able to pull up, get a good sight picture, fire repeatedly and accurately in any conditions, then God bless you, I hope you're on my team when the ball drops. However, for many of us if the time ever comes it might be a lifesaver to keep your head up, both eyes open on the target(s) and pull the trigger when that little red dot hits a good spot, NO MATTER YOUR POSITION OR POSTURE. If you are partially compromised, down, or partially restrained you might not be able to pull up to a sight picture, but you damn sure might be able to move your forearm or wrist enough to get that dot on BG's head and give him a leaden thought.

 

Lasers have their place and can be very useful for people with any sort of physical condition short of perfect. Bluster all you want.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

It seems everywhere I look in magazines or the interenet of on TV shows that lasers are the best thing you could get on a defensive firearm (besides a light). Now, I'm all about lights on guns but lasers? I've owned some, shot some and played with a bunch. I really don't get it. They make great training tools but I can't see them in any real world use.

 

What say you?

 

While I have one on my S&W BG380 (it came with it built in) I like it but have only sighted it in and played with it a few times and think it's a better cat toy than a usable tool.

 

But if you go by the movies, I think all you need is a laser pointed at someone and the sound of racking a pump action shotty and everyone will go running for the hills and never been seen again... LOL

[ruger9 0]

But if you go by the movies, I think all you need is a laser pointed at someone and the sound of racking a pump action shotty and everyone will go running for the hills and never been seen again... LOL

 

See? I knew some joker would chime in...

 

ANY deterrent to keep from having to shoot someone is GOOD. We're not talking about fleeing, we're talking about "encouraging" someone to leave your home before they get shot. Always a good thing. Dog, laser, shotgun rack, the sound of the criminals' wife or mother-in-law's voice, whatever it takes. I don't WANT to put a bullet in someone. I certainly will, no problem. But if I hear "noise downstairs" I'm not thinking "oh goodie, I get to see all my range training pay off with a triple-tap center-mass hit", I'm thinking, "I hope I get the intruder to leave before I have to kill him."

[A-Tech 8]

My SR22 came with a laser. It automatically shot 100rds at once and perfectly on target. When I took it off I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Must be something about .22lr's with lasers that makes them so much more accurate :unknw:

[hd2000fxdl 422]

See? I knew some joker would chime in...

 

ANY deterrent to keep from having to shoot someone is GOOD. We're not talking about fleeing, we're talking about "encouraging" someone to leave your home before they get shot. Always a good thing. Dog, laser, shotgun rack, the sound of the criminals' wife or mother-in-law's voice, whatever it takes. I don't WANT to put a bullet in someone. I certainly will, no problem. But if I hear "noise downstairs" I'm not thinking "oh goodie, I get to see all my range training pay off with a triple-tap center-mass hit", I'm thinking, "I hope I get the intruder to leave before I have to kill him."

 

Yup replying to a joker with my original post, who by the way is a damn good guy and I say that as a friend. lol

 

I also agree with you, I'd also as well and probably 99.99999999% of the people here want to never have to shoot someone and if in a situation no matter what, would like them to just bug out and get the hell away from me and getting themselves shot by any means possible. So I think we agree there.

 

Now with that said, see that I was joking in the post I was originally replying to, but also, if it worked out like that, I'd be cool with that.

[A-Tech 8]

I think Yeager has a pretty good handle on realistic scenarios and practicality. So here's this:

 

[rightisright 3]

I have laser grips on my little s&w 640-1 snubby revolver. That guy has the tiny front and rear sights buried into the frame. Tough for me to get a sight picture. The laser dot is an instant point and shoot which is a huge upgrade from the barely visible sights. I'm a lot more accurate with the laser than I am with the iron sights on that firearm.

 

Yep. I have one laser. It's on a snubby. Ihe laser changes it from an in-his-belly gun to a decent 15 yard shooter. It's also a great training aid.

[ruger9 0]

Yup replying to a joker with my original post, who by the way is a damn good guy and I say that as a friend. lol

 

 

Now with that said, see that I was joking in the post I was originally replying to, but also, if it worked out like that, I'd be cool with that.

 

sorry if I misread and missed the sarcasm.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

No problem ruger, sometimes just reading the text here can be taken the wrong way, it's all good man..

[mikeyboyeee 66]

I def see value in it, especially something like a CT laser grip with instant on.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

Lasers are a great addition to any firearm - in case you are attacked by a large band of vicious marauding cats.

[GRIZ 3,369]

A

I have laser grips on my little s&w 640-1 snubby revolver. That guy has the tiny front and rear sights buried into the frame. Tough for me to get a sight picture. The laser dot is an instant point and shoot which is a huge upgrade from the barely visible sights. I'm a lot more accurate with the laser than I am with the iron sights on that firearm.

 

 

 

Yep. I have one laser. It's on a snubby. Ihe laser changes it from an in-his-belly gun to a decent 15 yard shooter. It's also a great training aid.

 

Sounds like you need more instruction and/or practice. You should be able to engage targets at 25 yards + with a J frame even an older one with the tiny sights.

[High Exposure 5,678]

For most people, I think they are a gimmick on a handgun. I have never been able to shoot a handgun as accurately with a laser as with iron sights, and believe me I tried. I am a gadget guy and wanted so badly to like a laser on my pistol. I tried the CT grips, the Lasermax Guiderod and one that slips onto the rail onn the dustcover. I had some kind of laser on my social gun for 3 years, but I couldn't warm up to the thing. Unfortunately, the bullet doesn't ride the beam when it leaves the barrel. The fundamentals still apply. Shortcutting them by using a laser is false economy.

 

FWIW, I know Lasers do have their place; an IR laser while using NODs for example. Target designation with a visible or IR laser is another good use mentioned above. Handicapped or disabled shooters is another, and there are more. I just think most shooters, myself included, could better spend that $200 on ammo and training and get greater improvement in the shooting for their money.

 

Now, MRDS mounted on a pistol/revolver however, I feel bridges the gap here nicely, and is a much better solution than a visible laser. I am currently working that angle with mixed results so far, but I am getting better.

 

For home defense, total BS. Think about it, if someone is in your home, you are within 2 to 5 yards of the intruder/target. A blind man can hit a center-mass target at that distance. Furthermore, if you are tracking someone, protecting YOUR element of surprise, a laser can give up that advantage.

 

While I am not a fan of lasers on handguns, your scenario is the one place where they can actually be more useful than not. With adequate training (avouding a visible laser ND) and the utilization of proper tactics (cover, concealment, speed, surprise, violence of action) the use of a laser shines (forgive the pun) in the fast moving chaos of ECQB.

 

I think Yeager has a pretty good handle on realistic scenarios and practicality. So here's this:

 

 

Thread hijack:

Yeager is an @$$ who got in over his head in Iraq. He froze up when caught in an ambush while working for Edinburgh Security and some of his team mates got killed.

 

There is even video of it:

 

He may be 100% in agreement with me, it doesn't matter. I see his name and I tune it out.

/hijack

 

Again, relying on anything other than well aimed shots that hit their mark for self defense is silly. I have never seen a laser used on its own deter anyone or de-escalate a use of force incident. The dirt bags in this world know the Use of Force laws better than most cops or civilians. They know when you can and can't shoot and are more than willing to bet their lives on it when confronting good law abiding people.

 

As far as the scary sounfd of racking a shotgun, please. We have been down this road before. For the children, stop. It is useless Hollywood BS that may very well get you killed.

 

Why are you confronting an intruder with an unloaded gun anyway?