What Should We Trade?

[Handyman 5,682]

No one is saying it is time to start shooting. I feel your comments do not reflect the sentiment of this board.

 

If not now, then when? If compromise is over, resistance remains. If things continue at their current rate and speed, I would wager 80% of the population of this board will be felons in one way or another.

 

These laws all pass and in 4 months four LEOs show up at your door and say they are taking everything. You choices will be to:

 

a. comply

b. peacefully say no, go to jail and they tear apart your house searching

c. resist using all the means in your power

[djg0770 481]

I would like to state that the 2a shall not be infringed arguement is dead...

 

It's dead because they have already infringed it - that's what the point needs to be.

 

A wise negotiator taught me a long time ago to always always always negotiate from a position of strength. They've framed the argument for far too long. It's no longer wise or just to argue back using the argument they have defined. This is not, has not been Marquis du Queensbury rules for a very long time. There's no need to respond, we must parry their attack and attack back with our own sword in our own fashion.

 

Compromise is effected when both parties are correct and a middle ground can be found. How do you hold up the constitution in one hand, an absolute, and agree to compromise on it? What's the compromise to free speech? What's the compromise to freedom of religion? What's the compromise to unlawful search and seizure? What's the compromise to the right against self incrimination? THERE IS NONE, PERIOD. These are INALIENABLE rights, we shall not let them take them away any longer.

[Metalflames 0]

If not now, then when? If compromise is over, resistance remains. If things continue at their current rate and speed, I would wager 80% of the population of this board will be felons in one way or another.

 

These laws all pass and in 4 months four LEOs show up at your door and say they are taking everything. You choices will be to:

 

a. comply

b. peacefully say no, go to jail and they tear apart your house searching

c. resist using all the means in your power

If you keep talking the way you are, from some of the other post I've read you might get a knock on the door sooner than later. Your comments are the kind the media foams at the mouth for. You are "the gun nut" they try and portray all of us as. Belligerent fools just waiting for the first chance to incite a riot. I will defend my rights, I will defend my freedom, and I will defend my family but I will not draw first blood. Everyone has a choice. I have family and friends in other states who I would gladly gift any firearms that may become illegal if the proposed laws pass until the time I move and relocate to another state. That is the beauty of this country. States govern themselves. If you do not like it you move to another state. Don't like taxes go to Delaware. Don't like gun control move to PA. Need more land move to Wyoming.

 

Explain to me how 80% of this board would become felons as you say if they fight upholding the constitution?

[hd2000fxdl 422]

In looking at the flurry of laws the antis have come up with, we need to find opportunity. We need to find willing legislators who will wheel and deal on our behalf. For example:

 

 

-Should we be willing to accept a 10 round magazine limit if NJ became a "shall issue" state? If this were to succeed we could likely demonstrate that in a few years crime did not dramatically rise, so there is no reason for the 10 round limit.

 

-Should we be willing to accept photo ID FID if we can force the state to alter the process? Since we will now have a "cadillac" background check, we should become "shall issue," pistol purchase permits will no longer be required, and NJ will get rid of its stupid paper process and use NICS the same way everyone else does.

 

 

I am not saying I am in favor of any of the bills currently up for consideration. But the fact is, some of them will be passed and we should find a way to ride their coattails.

 

We need to find someone (McHose) that will sponsor some of these things and put the other side on the defensive. We are always knocked on our heels and we need to now attack. Hard.

 

Problem is its never been a balance of this for that, it only been give and take, we give, they take, that's going backwards and its time that stops. It's time, the camel only has so many straws, they are almost all gone and I don't want to see what happens when we hit the breaking point.

 

 

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[hd2000fxdl 422]

 

Until they give us the final "F you" and these laws are signed, there is time for compromise. Liberals always talk about compromise, finding common ground, etc. Give them one last chance to prove themselves liars before armed insurrection.

 

Didn't this compromise crap start back in 1966 for the most part here,, understand, there is no common ground, they will never be happy until there are no more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens, period.

 

It's not time to compromise anything, it's time to fight harder than ever before and never give up.

 

 

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[hd2000fxdl 422]

Nothing. Not a damn thing.

 

There isn't anything proposed that is going to make any one of us, or anyone else safer.

 

The only option is to tell them to scrape the whole damn thing and start over.

 

Let them focus on enforcing the laws on the books. Mandatory sentences would be a good start.

 

I do agree, we need to focus on the laws on the books and start working on a set of 4300 bills to remove the ones that do nothing but make us less less safe. Why are the BS ones on the books still there, we should get on the offensive, not play only defense.

 

 

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[hd2000fxdl 422]

I'm not saying we should willingingly give up anything. But lets have a day in the statehouse where the committee needs to hear testimony on 25 pro-2A bills.

 

Ok I'll agree to that, say we have 100 pro bills, I can see my way clear to allow 1 or 2 to slip through the cracks to be brought up at a later date, How's next week??

 

 

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[hd2000fxdl 422]

I think mandatory Basic Firearms Safety Training should be incorporated somewhere along the line...I think its in our interest

 

That's fine, they can teach that in school, scrub mandatory foreign language and substitute firearms 101, after your out of school, sorry I can't get behind any mandatory training, I will support people taking it upon them selves to get training, but can't get behind making it a requirement.

 

 

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[Cold Steel 0]

You can only negotiate with somewhat honerable people. We saw and heard what went on at that hearing. These are NOT honerable people. Sometimes you just have to walk away from the table. Give up nothing! Fight back. These are our rights, not gifts from politicians.

[Pythagoras 2]

But lets have a day in the statehouse where the committee needs to hear testimony on 25 pro-2A bills.

 

Let's do it!

 

Alison Littel McHose, Michael Patrick Carroll, Michael J. Doherty, Gary R. Chiusano, and John DiMaio have sponsored pro-gun bills in the past and might be willing to help us with this.

[heaterbob 53]

We trade our money for lawyers and to (buy) I mean support canidates that will represent our interests.

[Handyman 5,682]

If you keep talking the way you are, from some of the other post I've read you might get a knock on the door sooner than later. Your comments are the kind the media foams at the mouth for. You are "the gun nut" they try and portray all of us as. Belligerent fools just waiting for the first chance to incite a riot. I will defend my rights, I will defend my freedom, and I will defend my family but I will not draw first blood. Everyone has a choice. I have family and friends in other states who I would gladly gift any firearms that may become illegal if the proposed laws pass until the time I move and relocate to another state. That is the beauty of this country. States govern themselves. If you do not like it you move to another state. Don't like taxes go to Delaware. Don't like gun control move to PA. Need more land move to Wyoming.

 

Explain to me how 80% of this board would become felons as you say if they fight upholding the constitution?

 

I am hoping that (at least) 80% of this board would simply say, "No, I refuse to comply, I refuse to register, I refuse to turn anything in." People who do so will wake up one day and be a felon.

 

I would be very happy for the media to try to portray me as a "gun nut." They would be shocked someone with my background even owns firearms. I have documented thousands of hours as a volunteer first responder and my criminal history consists of being pulled over for a burned out light literally 30 years ago. Yet I am the person the dems are worried about.

[PeteF 1,044]

The problem is in a negotiation, both sides have something the other wants so there is a middle ground.

 

This is not a negotiation. There is nothing I want from these idiots. They have absolutely nothing to give.

 

They are only trying to take something away.

[Underdog 1,593]

I think mandatory Basic Firearms Safety Training should be incorporated somewhere along the line...I think its in our interest

 

Yeah, lets teach it to high school students, but it couldn't be administered by the schools and the education associations and the state. NRA...

[Metalflames 0]

I am hoping that (at least) 80% of this board would simply say, "No, I refuse to comply, I refuse to register, I refuse to turn anything in." People who do so will wake up one day and be a felon.

 

I would be very happy for the media to try to portray me as a "gun nut." They would be shocked someone with my background even owns firearms. I have documented thousands of hours as a volunteer first responder and my criminal history consists of being pulled over for a burned out light literally 30 years ago. Yet I am the person the dems are worried about.

What does your background have to do with it. You could be the love child of Mother Teressa and Gandhi do you think any one will care when they see your post to start shooting and to over throw the gov?

[wooly bugger 1]

I'll bet if Ceasefire introduced Eddie Eagle, it would be lapped up.

The NRA introdues it, and it's poison.

[Bowling Ball 22]

What does your background have to do with it. You could be the love child of Mother Teressa and Gandhi do you think any one will care when they see your post to start shooting and to over throw the gov?

 

Alex Jones did it on national television, I don't think anybody knocked on his door.

 

Exercise your 1st amendment before they take that too.

[wooly bugger 1]

The only thing they could dangle that would make me even consider a trade is "shall issue."

Never going to happen. And if these clowns did dangle it, it would obviously be a devious trap.

 

So, in reality. Nothing.

[Metalflames 0]

Alex Jones did it on national television, I don't think anybody knocked on his door.

 

Exercise your 1st amendment before they take that too.

You can speak your mind all you want just like they can spin it to make the entire cause look like lunitics. I don't think Alex Jones is doing us any good. Spouting off at the mouth is playing right into the Anti's hands. How would the civil rights movement have gone if every black man in the country were busting cops heads open? The system knew the fight was coming (were do you think gun control started) but when it lost control it also lost the fight. The blacks waited and played the game took their lumps and won. If bullets start flying you make damn sure they clearly throw them first. People always side with the victim.

[Handyman 5,682]

What does your background have to do with it. You could be the love child of Mother Teressa and Gandhi do you think any one will care when they see your post to start shooting and to over throw the gov?

 

Most people who know me would be shocked into thinking, "Wow, I can't believe that such a patriotic, upstanding citizen would harbor such thoughts. Maybe something really is wrong with our country."

[ryan_j 0]

If you keep talking the way you are, from some of the other post I've read you might get a knock on the door sooner than later. Your comments are the kind the media foams at the mouth for. You are "the gun nut" they try and portray all of us as. Belligerent fools just waiting for the first chance to incite a riot. I will defend my rights, I will defend my freedom, and I will defend my family but I will not draw first blood. Everyone has a choice. I have family and friends in other states who I would gladly gift any firearms that may become illegal if the proposed laws pass until the time I move and relocate to another state. That is the beauty of this country. States govern themselves. If you do not like it you move to another state. Don't like taxes go to Delaware. Don't like gun control move to PA. Need more land move to Wyoming.

 

Explain to me how 80% of this board would become felons as you say if they fight upholding the constitution?

 

Really?

 

No. The black helicopters aren't going to show up just because you made some threats at very non specific things.

 

It takes specific threats against specific people and/or things for the powers that be to initiate contact.

 

Threats against federal public officials will absolutely get you a call from the FBI if they manage to come across it. Threats against the President especially (obviously) will get the secret service involved and they follow up and investigate very vigorously.

 

In fact one time I was at a bank and a woman decided to mutter how this country should be blown up to pieces. The NYPD officer right next to me didn't do a damn thing.

[PhilipJFry 4]

all this will be moot once i get my time machine operational.

[Metalflames 0]

Really?

 

No. The black helicopters aren't going to show up just because you made some threats at very non specific things.

 

It takes specific threats against specific people and/or things for the powers that be to initiate contact.

 

Threats against federal public officials will absolutely get you a call from the FBI if they manage to come across it. Threats against the President especially (obviously) will get the secret service involved and they follow up and investigate very vigorously.

 

In fact one time I was at a bank and a woman decided to mutter how this country should be blown up to pieces. The NYPD officer right next to me didn't do a damn thing.

Did you even read the posts? The point is not to make us look like fools. This isn't about being paranoid or suppressing you 1st amendment rights. It's about using your head when you make public comments that can easily be spun to vilify gun owners even more so. We are fighting an up hill battle and in case you haven't noticed the media is against us. Why give them more to work with?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

We don't have "machine guns" or "assualt weapons", I already compromised. Gimme my 30 rounders and CCW. I aint givin up chit.

[Handyman 5,682]

Did you even read the posts? The point is not to make us look like fools. This isn't about being paranoid or suppressing you 1st amendment rights. It's about using your head when you make public comments that can easily be spun to vilify gun owners even more so. We are fighting an up hill battle and in case you haven't noticed the media is against us. Why give them more to work with?

 

I guess you reckon being eloquent and polite has served us so well through the years?

 

Hear this liberal media: A civil war is coming. It is being forced upon us by your liberal buddy legislators. If you do not immediately leave our civil rights alone, you will see the saddest days since the 1860s.

 

The blood is on your hands.

[Bowling Ball 22]

The courts will fail us too. The people making these moves at the top aren't stupid. Who do you think trains these judges? They will never side with us now in this climate.

 

We will play their P.C. game all the way to the cattle trains.

 

Remember, its for the children.

[Underdog 1,593]

We don't have "machine guns" or "assualt weapons", I already compromised. Gimme my 30 rounders and CCW. I aint givin up chit.

 

+1000 for Ray.

[Underdog 1,593]

EDUCATION is the key for our success....

 

This!

 

Of course, the children! Lets go after senior citizens that have a clean record and want to protect themselves and single women, too. Lets endeavor to include "minorities" too, and of course the children. Lets offer lessons to tourists that come from other countries so that they can see what its like in a less oppressive country when they come to visit, and just as you have to register for the draft when you become of age, why not mandate a free NRA class for anyone that wants to attend. NRA members would probably love some of their money to go to this.

[Underdog 1,593]

I think one of the problems is that gun owners need to come out of the closet. And, as many above have stated... we have already compromised. In another generation, regardless of ANYTHING we do, if we don't capture the children and bring them up the right way, if we don't increase the respect for and private ownership for over 50-60% of the population, there will be no stopping those that would infringe on the Bill of Rights. There is little stopping them now, except if the gun owners across the land united, they would have a formidable strength to stand up against this tyranny.

[Metalflames 0]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU........

 

How many of us have taken the time to EDUCATE someone about firearms.....My father in law, mother inlaw, & sister in law were staunch antis....FIL now owns a Shotgun...MIL understands our side...SIL...is now buying rifles and loves shooting...

 

THINK GENERATIONALLY... the fight we are putting up now is a result of the past 20+ years of failed EDUCATION in firearms.... In order for us to succeed and prosper in the coming years....we need to educate our youth....

 

THAT is how we will win the hearts and minds of the future....

I agree 100% I have never had a range membership. The reason I am getting one this week is to invite and teach others about firearms. I see it as an investment in the future. Children need to be introduced and brought along. Look at some of the places with the most support for guns. It is ingrained in them from an early age. If people are not going to take a positive approach towards fixing the problem we will always be viewed in a negative light.