Sikh suing Cali over AWB

[Walt of Destiny 412]

You learn something new everyday. I had no idea that Sikhs had this requirement or the basis of it. Fascinating stuff.

 

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/28/sikh-man-cites-religion-lawsuit-against-gun-contro/

 

 

By David Sherfinski -The Washington Times Thursday, March 28, 2013

A Sikh man is suing the state of California over its gun laws, arguing they violate his First Amendment rights to practice his religion by barring him from carrying the kind of weapons he says he needs for self-defense.

 

Gursant Singh Khalsa, a practicing Sikh for 35 years, charges in the lawsuit filed this month that California’s laws banning military-style, semiautomatic weapons and high-capacity magazines violate mainstream Sikh doctinre requiring Sikhs “be at all time fully prepared to defend themselves and others against injustice.”

 

“We’re required to wear what’s called a kirpan” or dagger, he said Thursday. “I feel, as far as my religion goes, it dictates that we should have all weapons of all kinds to defend ourselves. By not being able to carry an assault rifle or weapon that has a high-capacity magazine, I don’t feel that I can defend myself or my family.”

 

Mr. Khalsa, who lives in Yuba City about 40 miles north of Sacramento, said he believes such a right should be available to all Americans with the proper training but that it’s also specific to the Sikh religion, which has roots deeply tied to self-defense.

 

“Some splinter groups attempt this by wearing symbolic miniature daggers in their turbans, to comply with this requirement,” he argues in the lawsuit, filed in federal court in California. “But mainstream Sikhs believe this requirement is a literal and true moral duty. As Guru Gobind Singh instructed his Sikhs; ‘Without uncut hair and weapons do not come before me’.”

 

Gurpatwant Pannun, a lawyer with the New York-based advocacy group Sikhs for Justice, said that carrying a sword is indeed a part of the religion, but wasn’t sure that the letter of the religion extends to carrying so-called assault weapons.

 

“It is an integral part to carry a sword, but whether that [provision] of carrying a sword goes to carrying an assault weapon, I’m not sure,” he said. “But carrying a sword is definitely an integral part of the religion.”

 

Mr. Khalsa, in his lawsuit, argues that the “sword” goes beyond the literal object.

 

“Decrees from the Tenth Sikh Guru state in the most vigorous and clear words that a Sikh’s conception of God is the sword of dharma,” he argues. “Not only the sword but every weapon became an attributive symbol of God for the Sikhs.”

 

The lawsuit also contains a reference to the attacks of Aug. 6, 2012, when a gunman killed six and injured several others at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisc., a suburban of Milwaukee.

 

“I feel that if a Sikh had been armed, they could have taken that guy out,” Mr. Khalsa said Thursday. “We believe in self-defense, standing up for your rights, and, if necessary, to defend yourself and, if necessary, use lethal force to stop someone.”

 

The lawsuit also says that California’s laws infringe on the Second and Fourteenth Amendment rights of Mr. Khalsa and others.

 

Mr. Khalsa, the suit reads, “fears arrest, criminal prosecution, incarceration, and fine if he were to possess loaded weapons with 11 or more round magazines within his home, within his vehicle on the streets, or within his temple. But his religious beliefs require no less.”

 

Mr. Khalsa has also issued a summons to Gov. Jerry Brown.

 

Mr. Brown’s office did not respond to requests for comment on the lawsuit Thursday.

 

 

[Nikos 31]

Interesting angle.

 

Anyone interested in starting a new Church that believes in Saint Armalite?

[Duppie 73]

I did business with several Sikhs in Manhattan and Queens and also learned about the ceremonial knife all Sikh men are presented with when they are still children but understood it to be just that... ceremonial, none of them actually wore the knife on their person going about their daily lives but only to religious functions and weddings.

[junkmanted 54]

Interesting angle.

 

Anyone interested in starting a new Church that believes in Saint Armalite?

 

and Pole dancers

[Walt of Destiny 412]

"We believe in self-defense, standing up for your rights, and, if necessary, to defend yourself and, if necessary, use lethal force to stop someone.”

 

This aligns perfectly with my, and I'm sure many on here, personal beliefs. Who knew we were all Sikhs?

[raz-0 1,259]

I did business with several Sikhs in Manhattan and Queens and also learned about the ceremonial knife all Sikh men are presented with when they are still children but understood it to be just that... ceremonial, none of them actually wore the knife on their person going about their daily lives but only to religious functions and weddings.

 

I've dealt with some. The whole knife thing varies a lot. A lot of them get here via time spent in countries that disarm them and how much they take to that varies. I haven't met any that do actual swords, but I have seen a variety of knives or "knives" and they dress to the occasion/mood. Some of the ceremonial knives are definitely knives, but more like a BBQ gun. They are a dressy accessory and the function is often secondary to the dressy bit. Some of the ceremonial knives I would classify as vaguely knife shaped jewelry.

 

As religions go, it's not bad. Their core beliefs aren't something socially damaging to the best of my knowledge, they'll let people convert to it, but they don't go out and seek converts and are basically willing to live and let live.

[Duppie 73]

I've dealt with some. The whole knife thing varies a lot. A lot of them get here via time spent in countries that disarm them and how much they take to that varies. I haven't met any that do actual swords, but I have seen a variety of knives or "knives" and they dress to the occasion/mood. Some of the ceremonial knives are definitely knives, but more like a BBQ gun. They are a dressy accessory and the function is often secondary to the dressy bit. Some of the ceremonial knives I would classify as vaguely knife shaped jewelry.

 

As religions go, it's not bad. Their core beliefs aren't something socially damaging to the best of my knowledge, they'll let people convert to it, but they don't go out and seek converts and are basically willing to live and let live.

You have a point there, the ones I dealt with all emigrated from the UK where even a dirty look these days can get you put away much less a ceremonial dagger.As I understand it they are considered the warrior caste and I had nothing but good,friendly and honest dealings with them which was not always the case with some of their fellow countrymen. I was invited to their temple in long Island for a big feast but balked at the distance and the fact that they are all vegetarian.

[n4p226r 105]

I did business with several Sikhs in Manhattan and Queens and also learned about the ceremonial knife all Sikh men are presented with when they are still children but understood it to be just that... ceremonial, none of them actually wore the knife on their person going about their daily lives but only to religious functions and weddings.

 

I used to work in a bagel store and Jewish people would come in sometimes and eat taylor ham sandwiches. Different groups take the meaning differently

[Maksim 1,504]

I used to work in a bagel store and Jewish people would come in sometimes and eat taylor ham sandwiches. Different groups take the meaning differently

 

Not every Jew is Kosher... nor is it a requirement for Reform Judaism. =)

 

Just saying. My bacon is turkey, although I do eat plenty of shrimp.

 

But it is a very very interesting angle that he is trying to approach this.

 

So who wants to try this in NJ?

[Duppie 73]

I used to work in a bagel store and Jewish people would come in sometimes and eat taylor ham sandwiches. Different groups take the meaning differently

My old boss, also Jewish would call those "Kosher for passover" Jews and likened them to the kosher Coke and Pepsi that only popped up during the high holy days.

[average joe 5]

I would guess, that since they are claiming a religious angle, the liberals in Cali will have to cave in, or they will be labled as racist. And god knows, they would never want to be called racist, so there goes the AWB.....( right).... Nice try though.....

[Maksim 1,504]

My old boss, also Jewish would call those "Kosher for passover" Jews and likened them to the kosher Coke and Pepsi that only popped up during the high holy days.

 

You are confusing the two.

 

All Coke and Pepsi are Kosher... hence the little U in a circle on the cap or packaging. For Passover, there is special Kosher for Passover stuff... which is the Yellow cap bottles.

 

During passover, you eat special Kosher for Passover stuff.

[Barms 98]

(said in Homer voice)...."mmmmmmm Taylor Ham...."

 

[wooly bugger 1]

I know quite a few Sikhs. Thing about this for a second. They tend to be very big. They are by far more likely to have military and fighting experience than the average Indian. They are universally teased in American schools. I've never heard of one beating the crap out of one of his teasers.

 

Respect.

[302w 83]

I'll add to the notion that Sikhs are some of the nicest people I have ever met. I have never, ever met an unfriendly Sikh.

 

I've heard that you can go into a Sikh temple in any part of the world and you won't find a sick or hungry person not being taken care of.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

Sikhs were persecuted terribly after 9/11 because idiots thought they Muslim because they wear turbans.

[CMJeepster 2,780]

and Pole dancers

Al Bundy and the Church of NOMA'AM approve this message.

[n4p226r 105]

 

 

You are confusing the two.

 

All Coke and Pepsi are Kosher... hence the little U in a circle on the cap or packaging. For Passover, there is special Kosher for Passover stuff... which is the Yellow cap bottles.

 

During passover, you eat special Kosher for Passover stuff.

 

Passover coke is so much better

[n4p226r 105]

 

 

You are confusing the two.

 

All Coke and Pepsi are Kosher... hence the little U in a circle on the cap or packaging. For Passover, there is special Kosher for Passover stuff... which is the Yellow cap bottles.

 

During passover, you eat special Kosher for Passover stuff.

 

Passover coke is so much better

[njJoniGuy 2,133]

What about the makers of ExLax having their product certified Kosher for Passover and rebranding it "Let My People Go"

[Duppie 73]

Passover coke is so much better

Is it better that Mexican Coke?

[PDM 91]

Interesting topic. In Judaism there is a prohibition of men wearing women's clothing and vice versa. The Talmud discusses a prohibition on women wearing weapons of war because those are considered men's attire, thus clearly implying that it was normal for Jews back in the Talmudic era (roughly 2000 years ago) to be armed. Chuckie Schumer, are you listening?

[Walt of Destiny 412]

 

 

From the first rock hurled in anger to MIRVed trident missiles, those in control turned to disarmament when they they were about to grab more control/power. Latest example...the UN.

 

Throughout the history of man, populations were armed, being disarmed only when those in power feared losing that power.

[ryan_j 0]

I have sikhs in my wife's family and some of her ancestors were sikhs. Yes, the kirpan requirement is real. Sikhs have even sued the kingdom of bloomberg. They allowed it but it had to be glued to the holster.

 

So I guess california will allow sikhs to carry guns but with a permanently welded trigger lock.

[ryan_j 0]

You are confusing the two.

 

All Coke and Pepsi are Kosher... hence the little U in a circle on the cap or packaging. For Passover, there is special Kosher for Passover stuff... which is the Yellow cap bottles.

 

During passover, you eat special Kosher for Passover stuff.

 

I look for it every passover. It is made with sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup. This is because Jews cannot eat grain (Chametz) during passover. So you'll see K-P and the yellow cap or U-Pareve along with hebrew writing.

[Maksim 1,504]

Aka.... Mexican coke or Pepsi.... Made with real sugar.

[ryan_j 0]

Is it? I thought that the K-P coke was made with beet sugar whereas mexicoke was made with cane sugar.

 

btw, Pepsi makes pepsi throwback which also uses real sugar but I believe they use beet sugar. It's available year round.

 

The whole reason for not using cane sugar has to do with tarriffs.

[BillC. 26]

saw that on TV, He was holding single shot, Anschutz .22 RF Olympic target rifle and the press was calling it an assault rifle

[Duppie 73]

Aka.... Mexican coke or Pepsi.... Made with real sugar.

Didn't know that...I usually bring it in for a friend from Montreal where it's available in their Costco's

[ryan_j 0]

It's available at Costco here too. I see it at Costco in Wayne and Wharton.