blatant discrimination with FID process -- new campaign started in NJ

[jackandjill 683]

I agree. Having some legal heads certify will only help.  

 

Remember the following when you think about "why it hasnt been done before"..largely it hasnt been done before for same reasons as it hasnt been done now. 

 

1. Need to have a strong, pro 2A Gov

2. The Gov got to have good grip on AG office and NJSP

3. The Gov have to do it early in the term, right after he/she positions their own in the ranks at the appropriate places in the org

 

I am not sure if we have all three at this point.

 

FYI, such NJAC changes could still be challenged by anti's in the court or Legislature could pass more definitive law to force NJAC, but not doing anything and blaming Legislature for what they "may" do is not an answer. 

[njpilot 671]

Why not contact Evan Nappen. Ask for a written legal opinion from him to present to 101.5 to show to Christie.

[PD2K 115]

Hey this story was picked up on Ammoland.com:

 

http://www.ammoland.com/2015/12/shocking-undercover-video-of-nj-police-denying-residents-constitutional-rights/

[PD2K 115]

Yep.. done. I got kick out of being there.. will join again

 

Clip of CC re: concealed carry in NJ. Was this you? If so nice job getting the question into the show. According to CC, an executive order is not an option...

 

http://nj1015.com/could-christie-use-executive-order-to-change-concealed-carry-laws/

[Luso 6]

PART 2

From a month earlier, with further contradictions. He outright denies the videographer from getting a carry application or being able to apply, and then lies about why he can't. Also, note each person is greeted with "come back next month" to apply for FID/purchase permits

 

[tattooo 220]

What a power hungry POS

[n4p226r 105]

Such a weird juxtaposition of a guy that seems like he would support civilian ccw but will deny everyone anyways. Is this guy anti 2a or just pro2a but told if he wants to keep his job he has to make it impossible for everyone to get permits.

[Alex V 99]

Not as exciting as the first one.  Hope this guy gets fired and looses his pension and CCW.  Becomes a proll like the rest of us.

[diamondd817 828]

Not as exciting as the first one. Hope this guy gets fired and looses his pension and CCW. Becomes a proll like the rest of us.

He will be disciplined, then reassingned to a higher paying position with more benefits and a bigger pension. It is NJ after all.

[T Bill 649]

Fire his ass!  Blatant disregard for the law!  This FID process needs to be changed.  We can track packages better than this stupid paperwork.  I hope this goes viral.  About time something is done.

[Luso 6]

Such a weird juxtaposition of a guy that seems like he would support civilian ccw but will deny everyone anyways. Is this guy anti 2a or just pro2a but told if he wants to keep his job he has to make it impossible for everyone to get permits.

It's not a weird juxtaposition at all. Every officer has to think of something to say to diffuse uncomfortable conversations about how long a permit is taking, or how you can't carry, so they naturally default to sympathy. It's a defense mechanism

 

He has the ability to approve applications and punt to the court, at the very least, to ACCEPT an application and deny it. He's not even allowing these contacts to apply and lying about the process altogether

 

If they really wanted us to carry, they would do what they could in their power to help their residents and process the application, and let the judges say no. Then they'd truly have a clean conscience. They don't give a shit. It's all an act

 

It's quite simple from a logical perspective. Nothing is stopping them from approving. They are DISCOURAGED from doing it, and that's what this will eventually expose

[CMJeepster 2,781]

It's quite simple from a logical

perspective.

Careful with that word!!!

[Luso 6]

I wonder if this might help

 

http://www.njecpo.org/?page_id=147

[mustang69 505]

I find this officer's conduct to be beyond bad, but I'm having a hard time seeing how he gets held accountable.  His attitude fits the narrative with regard to firearms - the legislature, his local LE community, the press, the courts, etc.  "They" don't see a problem with his reasons as long as it's keeping the status quo.  About the only thing I see him taking heat for is being dumb enough to allow himself to be recorded saying it. 

 

I agree with the approach, but now that the recordings are out there good luck getting any anti-PD to talk openly.  The only way to get an answer soon will be a FOIA request.  Sunlight is the best disinfectant, at least the rest of the country might see what could happen if they don't pay attention.

[Luso 6]

I find this officer's conduct to be beyond bad, but I'm having a hard time seeing how he gets held accountable. His attitude fits the narrative with regard to firearms - the legislature, his local LE community, the press, the courts, etc. "They" don't see a problem with his reasons as long as it's keeping the status quo. About the only thing I see him taking heat for is being dumb enough to allow himself to be recorded saying it.

 

I agree with the approach, but now that the recordings are out there good luck getting any anti-PD to talk openly. The only way to get an answer soon will be a FOIA request. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, at least the rest of the country might see what could happen if they don't pay attention.

Unfortunately he cannot refuse to accept the application, regardless of whether the local politics there hates guns. No internal investigation will defend that

[n4p226r 105]

Please tell me there are more videos like this from other departments

[tattooo 220]

I hope so....that would build a nice case

[MartyZ 697]

Why can't this video be used as evidence that NJ is a NO ISSUE STATE? This would prove to the courts that CCW doesn't exist here

 

Sent from my LG-G4 using Tapatalk

 

 

[PD2K 115]

PART 2

From a month earlier, with further contradictions. He outright denies the videographer from getting a carry application or being able to apply, and then lies about why he can't. Also, note each person is greeted with "come back next month" to apply for FID/purchase permits

 

 

I hope we have more videos from different cities. Don't want the excuse used of this as an "isolated incident."

[jackandjill 683]

You bet this is already circulating between some PDs, more as an example of, how not to open mouth.

[tattooo 220]

Yep....now they are on notice to play it smooth while pissing on our rights

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

What arrogance from him. As soon as he said "3 to 6 months" I would have asked him why when statutorially it is supposed to be 30 days. I would love to see his condiscending attitude about that. I would have quoted him the statute also.

[Luso 6]

There are more videos. But that isn't the point. What we need is the entire 2A community going into their police departments and making their own recordings of officers refusing to take carry applications, quoting absurdly long permit turnarounds, or also commonly, adhering to some absurd 2 hour time window per week that you can even TALK to them about your firearms applications (most departments won't ACCePT paperwork outside that frame)

 

The problem win us is we all sit here bitching when good activism happens, start criticizing it, or making suggestions, or patting it on the back. What this should inspire is everyone to go do the same thing. If we can catalog 100 towns doing this, we will have carry in 6 months. You have to viscerally show people inside and outside the state what really is going on behind the curtain, and that takes away their ability to say everything is fine

[InFamous 311]

Finally got around to watching both videos...The first one is absolutely awful how he "decides" who is allowed to protect themselves, second one sound more like he's misinformed or just doesn't want to be bothered.

[Luso 6]

Finally got around to watching both videos...The first one is absolutely awful how he "decides" who is allowed to protect themselves, second one sound more like he's misinformed or just doesn't want to be bothered.

He's not misinformed. He knows people have carry permits that aren't cops. You really think he doesn't know that? He's being instructed either by his chief or the county court not to pass any applications to be heard in front of a judge. They have a tacit agreement

[Jim Hartman 31]

prominent 2A groups in NH and other states have had this passed to them. most important are media impressions. NJTV is running an interview today on this. Chasing will likely cover as well. Need a broadcast affiliate to really make it sing

 

but the most effective tactic at this point is to force the response of the PD and to ask if they condone the words and discrimination in the video by the detective. they must defend him, or get rid of him.

Anyone running against Christie should run an add in NH showing the status quo as far as the 2nd Amendment  goes and one of his quotes saying hes "proud of NJ gun laws" along with the poster of him when he was running for assembly in the early 1990's and entered pollitics to prevent the NJ republicans from overturning the so called assault weapons ban. 

[Alex V 99]

There are more videos. But that isn't the point. What we need is the entire 2A community going into their police departments and making their own recordings of officers refusing to take carry applications, quoting absurdly long permit turnarounds, or also commonly, adhering to some absurd 2 hour time window per week that you can even TALK to them about your firearms applications (most departments won't ACCePT paperwork outside that frame)

 

The problem win us is we all sit here bitching when good activism happens, start criticizing it, or making suggestions, or patting it on the back. What this should inspire is everyone to go do the same thing. If we can catalog 100 towns doing this, we will have carry in 6 months. You have to viscerally show people inside and outside the state what really is going on behind the curtain, and that takes away their ability to say everything is fine

 

Would not work in EB.  Oddly enough they are pretty good about it.  The women at the Records desk gave me applications every time I asked. She looked at me sideways when I asked for a CCW application but gave it to me anyway.  You hand your application in to them and they accept it anytime during business hours, take you $ and done.  The Detective that did my fingerprinting for my initial FID (when it was still inc fingerprints) and the one who did the same for my Florida CCW had no problem doing it, though that was during a ridiculously short time window only 2 days a week.

 

I guess some towns are worse than others.  Seems that the more "urban" areas are far worse. 

[jackandjill 683]

No doubt more of this need to be documented by individuals with PDs who are tough nuts to crack.  Looks like good deal of prep went into capturing these videos.

 

* Got to find a skilled, willing participant

* Technical stuff

* Layout details around approach

* Legalities 

* Find a way in  (many PDs have locked doors and Citizens have to talk through a glass window, thats it)

 

 

glenninjersey started a thread about how to bring more firearm owners and talks about county level organization...may be this is one of the "serivices" such org provides.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I guess some towns are worse than others.  Seems that the more "urban" areas are far worse. 

 

As expected.  The more "urban" an area, the more the LEAs perceive greater danger from their constituency if there is increased firearms ownership... and the harder their job becomes. 

[NJGF 375]

Although we may not like it, I am not sure there is any official misconduct here. Remember that the police are allowed to lie to us.