News flash heavily armed people arrested at Holland tunnel.

[Purple Patrick 638]

This is from a guy on m4c

 

Sooooooooooo......<br />

<br />

I know this guy. He was a potential business partner. We decided to re-open an indoor range that had been closed for several years. The timing was right because the only other indoor range in the area was about to close. <br />

I knew the building owners and did a nice pitch to get them to lease us the property. We began remodeling (He is a carpenter by trade who was on disability, and pain pills, after a fall) and it was looking to be a nice place. I had a classroom for 40+ students and a rather large gunsmith shop. There were many environmental issues that had to be fixed and I had two crews that were working on them for free until Cramsey pushed them away, going the route of cutting many corners which later cost him $125K in OSHA fines. About 75% of the way completed, Cramsey decided that he wanted free laborers and hooked up with a local group called Lehigh Valley Open Carry. Due to their very anti-police views, I voiced my opinion against their presence, not to mention having some of my tools stolen, and I was quickly ousted from the business. <br />

Cramsey was more interested in making a quick buck by renting lanes to any idiot and my view for this place was more geared toward professional training and instruction. <br />

During his 2 short years of operation, I would get reports of some of the goofy things that would go on in that place. This winter, his daughter was found dead in a warehouse with another male. The bodies were severely decomposed and it took a bit to determine the cause of death which, expectedly, was a heroine overdose. Use of pills and later heroine was not a secret with that group later in the game. The last I heard about Cramsey was that he was actually living in that truck. I'm sure losing a child to anything is devastating but when you add the Elmer Fuddness to the mix things got real stupid real quick. There is also a husband and wife that worked at the range. They live in the town where I work. They went through a nasty divorce and you can't believe all the shenanigans they were pulling. Apparently stupid breeds stupid at Higher Ground Tactical.

 

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[mipafox 438]

Damn it..never thought it would happen. I completely agree with you. While I commend his reasoning if in fact he is trying to help save somebody from what happened to his daughter.( I would go all punisher, scorched earth if something like that happened to my kids). Instituting his plans needs a lot of work.

I find you generally unpleasant. That being said, we are here primarily for the same reasons. Gun info, and spreading the shooting sports and activism. I am not here to get a date with your daughter.

 

Reagen said that anybody that agrees with my philosophy and policies 80% of the time is not my enemy. Let's keep our eye on the ball.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Nobody gets a date with my daughter

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

These guys were idiots.  That's an established fact.  That being said, the MSM is starting to demonize them as vigilantes worse than terrorists or Newark/Camden thugs.  I think they should face the consequences, but not necessarily 5 years felony without parole.

[T Bill 649]

Today in court their lawyers brought up the point that they were profiled and the cracked windshield was not the reason for the stop.  Interesting angle if it plays out.  Sounds like this could go on for a while. 

 

Stupid NJ, always trying to be the knight in shinning armor.  Should have just let them continue onto NY.  Hell. that's what every other state does on the "Cocaine Highway", keep them moving and get them the hell out of their jurisdiction.

[Lambo2936 297]

'Huge cache' cracks me up. I take that much, if not more, on a trip to the range, haha. These people are certainly far from intelligent. NJ will string them up and make an example of them.

[10X 3,321]

Today in court their lawyers brought up the point that they were profiled and the cracked windshield was not the reason for the stop.  Interesting angle if it plays out.  Sounds like this could go on for a while. 

 

 

I also believe the cracked windshield wasn't the reason for the stop.    I think posting their intentions on Facebook had a lot more to do with it.   Responding to that, I'm pretty sure, doesn't constitute 'profiling'.

[InFamous 311]

Today in court their lawyers brought up the point that they were profiled and the cracked windshield was not the reason for the stop.  Interesting angle if it plays out.  Sounds like this could go on for a while. 

 

Stupid NJ, always trying to be the knight in shinning armor.  Should have just let them continue onto NY.  Hell. that's what every other state does on the "Cocaine Highway", keep them moving and get them the hell out of their jurisdiction.

 

 

I also believe the cracked windshield wasn't the reason for the stop.    I think posting their intentions on Facebook had a lot more to do with it.   Responding to that, I'm pretty sure, doesn't constitute 'profiling'.

 

 

Here's the thing. If the reason they were stopped which led to the arrest was not per the law. Aren't they free to go or pardoned, similar to the PA CO that got off for having a handgun in his car which was found after an accident that was not his fault?

[Newtonian 453]

I don't see the crack in the windshield they were originally stopped for. They're still idiots.

The "crack in the windshield," through which the lowest-ranked police academy graduate is trained to detect "a smell of marijuana." Probable cause Bingo.

 

Hey seems like these hodes are always from west of the Delaware. Never from Wilmington or upstate. Must be an electric fence around Connecticut and Maryland as well. There's something in the water in Scrotum, Analomink, and Entralia that compels them to get arrested in Jersey. Maybe our prison food is better. Maybe they're trying to escape from the Inter-Galactically Recognized Top Gun Culture in the Universe.

 

Can't wait for the frantic emails from ANJRPC and NJ2AF urging me to email Christie to pardon these guys who were only practicing their god-given right to "conceal and carry."

[mipafox 438]

Here's the thing. If the reason they were stopped which led to the arrest was not per the law. Aren't they free to go or pardoned, similar to the PA CO that got off for having a handgun in his car which was found after an accident that was not his fault?

Supreme Court just ruled that evidence collected from an unlawful search can be used against you in court.

[pjd832 146]

it should be handled like typically done with a poor little dindu nuffin....through a deal, theyd drop all the weapon charges for a guilty plea on the cracked window and a seatbelt charge....let them walk with a "i promise ill pay you" for the fines......yes these guys were idiots, but far less harmful to the common person unlike the vermin in "insert any sewer city" that are caught and released daily for violent crimes    

[bhunted 887]

Didn't anyone notice his stated intent by going to rescue the girl from a drug dealer, yadadada, kind of matches what it says on the ammo can?

[Fred2 367]

Supreme Court just ruled that evidence collected from an unlawful search can be used against you in court.

Another Bullshit ruling from the court

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

Supreme Court just ruled that evidence collected from an unlawful search can be used against you in court.

Another Bullshit ruling from the court

Is this true?

[mikelets456 78]

Did they willfully break the law?

 

If so proceed to the consequences......

Hence, this is how they'll continue with their confiscation plans and gun owners in complete agreement.Little by little we become accustomed to Illegal and unconstitutional laws where gun owners blame gun owners instead of illegal laws. We'll have enough "crazy" laws where we'll be divided to the point of no return. Heck, someday you'll be added to the "terrorist watch list" and gun owners not on the list clinging to their .22 LR and .410's will call them crazy nuts deserving no due process. Little by little they divide us. 

[Guest]

hard to see

How the heck did a cop see that???

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

Is this true?

Yes...I think the case mipafox is referring to is Utah v. Strieff. Here is a link to the decision: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1373_83i7.pdf

 

While I have no sympathy for Strieff in this case, the ruling is a cause for concern whereby the police can conjure up any excuse to stop and search you and have the evidence collected used against you.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

Yes...I think the case mipafox is referring to is Utah v. Strieff. Here is a link to the decision: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1373_83i7.pdf

 

While I have no sympathy for Strieff in this case, the ruling is a cause for concern whereby the police can conjure up any excuse to stop and search you and have the evidence collected used against you.

So essentially, the SCOTUS ruled the 4th Amendment no longer applies to vehicle stops? Unreal....

[Handyman 5,682]

So essentially, the SCOTUS ruled the 4th Amendment no longer applies to vehicle stops? Unreal....

Home and workplace searches won't be far behind.

[10X 3,321]

Hence, this is how they'll continue with their confiscation plans and gun owners in complete agreement.Little by little we become accustomed to Illegal and unconstitutional laws where gun owners blame gun owners instead of illegal laws

What part of their plan appeared legal and why?

[mikelets456 78]

What part of their plan appeared legal and why?

You've (we've) compromised to the point where regardless, the gun owner is at fault. The "Bill of Rights" can not be handcuffed by laws that bypass it--these are basic rights that are not up to negotiation or alterable--until we stand up and make it clear that these laws are unconstitutional and we have a right (actual written right) to defend ourselves how we see fit, we'll never win this argument. If I want to drive around with 50 guns but harm no one how is that a crime? Why do we accept it as such? Because some marxists/progressives that hates guns says so? We have to get back what we lost since 1934....  Did that answer what you were asking?

 

maybe this depiction will help:

 

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/11/08/cake-and-compromise-illustrated-guide-to-gun-control/

[AVB-AMG 530]

From what I have read today, it appears that these three folks were complete idiots....!

 

Driving such a conspicuous vehicle they were almost shouting out "hey look at me... and I dare you to confront me"

 

You can argue all you want about whether it was a legal stop and search but if someone is going to be as stupid and foolish as these people it is very hard to have any sympathy, empathy or care for them. They will face multiple charges and be put on a pedestal as examples. The media may demonize them further but they must now face the consequences of what they provoked with their choices and actions.

[BlueLineFish 615]

The only reason the evidence in that case was allowed was because the individual had a warrant. They rules that the stop was improper but once a warrant was discovered the officer had a duty to arrest so the objects found were ok to charge on. Had the individual not had a warrant and the objects were found and the individual arrested it would have been tossed out

[mikelets456 78]

The only reason the evidence in that case was allowed was because the individual had a warrant. They rules that the stop was improper but once a warrant was discovered the officer had a duty to arrest so the objects found were ok to charge on. Had the individual not had a warrant and the objects were found and the individual arrested it would have been tossed out

I tried looking for the warrant---what warrant did he have against him?

[njpilot 671]

Friend you know nothing about me you know nothing of what I believe you know nothing of due process your argument in this situation for this particular person is so flawed I cannot even begin to believe that I'm actually responding to it no part of what this gentleman tried to do was remotely legal no part of what this gentleman tried to do with transportation of weapons for illegal purposes mind you is remotely law-abiding or lawful in any stretch of the imagination you're assertion that this is somehow the government trying to break us apart is foolish at best ignorant at worst please have some sort of other argument than then the government is against us and dividing us... this man was a fool and deserves everything that he gets

 

 

Let's recap civilian loads up toy Tonka truck with Arms & Ammo to drive to states where weapons are illegal to make forcible entry into a drug Den to "rescue" someone by any means necessary posting it all on Facebook and pretty much saying he might kill the heroin dealer what part of that whole exercise seems rational to you in this day and age?

 

 

Please let's not make this douche nozzle the poster boy for gun rights the man is a moron and should be stripped of any accreditations he might have relating to Firearms he is irresponsible in my opinion

And a danger to himself and others once again he deserves everything he gets

Holy lack of punctuation and run-on sentences. 

[louu 399]

This thread and every post in it, including this one, sucks dead gorilla nuts. 

[mikelets456 78]

Friend you know nothing about me you know nothing of what I believe you know nothing of due process your argument in this situation for this particular person is so flawed I cannot even begin to believe that I'm actually responding to it no part of what this gentleman tried to do was remotely legal no part of what this gentleman tried to do with transportation of weapons for illegal purposes mind you is remotely law-abiding or lawful in any stretch of the imagination you're assertion that this is somehow the government trying to break us apart is foolish at best ignorant at worst please have some sort of other argument than then the government is against us and dividing us... this man was a fool and deserves everything that he gets

 

 

Let's recap civilian loads up toy Tonka truck with Arms & Ammo to drive to states where weapons are illegal to make forcible entry into a drug Den to "rescue" someone by any means necessary posting it all on Facebook and pretty much saying he might kill the heroin dealer what part of that whole exercise seems rational to you in this day and age?

 

 

Please let's not make this douche nozzle the poster boy for gun rights the man is a moron and should be stripped of any accreditations he might have relating to Firearms he is irresponsible in my opinion

And a danger to himself and others once again he deserves everything he gets.

So, you believe we need 4000 plus gun laws? Do you believe inalienable rights should be curtailed by laws? If so, what about seizure laws? Free speech laws? By your logic, someone is stupid to drive through NJ with expandable ammo...gets pulled over, cop uses some BS excuse to search the car and now hi box of self defense ammo lands him in jail with a $10,000 fine. Is that the product of the honest person's stupidity or Unconstitutional law?

 

What I', trying to say, and I'm probably not explaining it very well, is there come's a point when we have to realize that our 2A rights have been pushed beyond what is "reasonable" and is Unconstitutional. The more we think out of the box realizing why the founders put the 2A and self defense clauses in the states the more we realize we're getting ripped...illegally. It is Unconstitutional to bypass or circumvent the Bill of rights with laws. 

 

At some point, you'll be the victim of new laws on the books and you'll think these laws are unconstitutional and illegal, but others will believe they're valid. We need to stop thinking the 2A is your right to own a gun but with 1000's of restrictions that can land you in jail for the simplest offense. We need to start working backwards and taking back what these progressives have taken over the past 100 years. Think about it---60 years ago this would not [even] be an issue and we had fewer "pro-gun" citizens then than we do now. So why is it an issue now? Propaganda, laws and freedom chipped away. It's time to reverse this---

[Handyman 5,682]

I would support adding "shooting up a crack house" to the legal transportation destinations under NJ law along with ranges and gun stores.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

He had a range? Did he have an FFL? Is so he can have 30 round mags and "assault" rifles

 

 

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[njpilot 671]

lmfao.... text recognition while driving epic fail !

lol