orangesolo 26 Posted August 22, 2016 Okay so this is a weird one. I've been thinking about how to describe the situation but I have no idea how to so here we go. I have an NJ FID My father does not. His employee does not. Now my father own's a store in NJ. I've been thinking about keeping a firearm here for his/mine/employee protection. While i'm working, i've been thinking about CCW on the premises. What if something happens where he or his employee is forced to use it without having an FID? (Father rent's out the floor/level store is located on, is it legal for me to CCW? It's his property though, not mine? But technically it's family property and i'm his son? Idk it's confusing.. Might need to talk to lawyer). Also the same thing, CCW at the house. Parents own the house, so it's their property, can I still carry when i'm home? I don't live in a dangerous area or are at a high level of risk, but i've been kidnapped and held at gunpoint for trusting the wrong person (like an idiot) and now feel like I can't give out trust that easily. So a firearm as a backup would be lovely. AANNDDD Yes before everyone goes crazy, I know the simple versions of NJ CCW laws. I'm not carrying outside of the property, only on the premises. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darrenf 422 Posted August 22, 2016 Not so much a ccw issue as an illegal transfer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darrenf 422 Posted August 22, 2016 What if something happens where he or his employee is forced to use it without having an FID?] Not so much a ccw issue, as an illegal transfer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handyman 5,682 Posted August 22, 2016 I'd be interested to know, too. If you are in imminent danger, aren't you entitled to pick up anything at hand to defend yourself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tunaman 549 Posted August 22, 2016 If it isnt your house or the range I believe you are breaking the law just bringing it there... the workplace I mean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted August 22, 2016 Looks like trolling 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted August 22, 2016 I wouldn't carry ANYWHERE in NJ unless it's your home OR property in your name either owned or leased. Your father owns the business, not you, family has nothing to do with it, unless he wants a partner. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted August 22, 2016 Legal to CARRY where you LIVE and at the business you OWN. ETA: Do you care if it is legal to USE if you need it to SAVE a life? Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orangesolo 26 Posted August 22, 2016 Legal to CARRY where you LIVE and at the business you OWN. ETA: Do care if it is legal to USE if you need it to SAVE a life? Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk. So I can't carry at my dad's business but I can carry at home? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted August 22, 2016 What makes you think you can carry in someone else's business? Home carry is always OK provided it's your residence or property. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orangesolo 26 Posted August 22, 2016 What makes you think you can carry in someone else's business? Because that's my father? I'm his employee? And I've been to ranges / LGS where employees are open carrying and i'm pretty sure all those 10/15 people there dont meet the BS "Justifiable Needs" to be able to carry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted August 22, 2016 No, you can not carry at Daddy's business without a permit. LGS Employees probably have a permit. Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted August 22, 2016 Because that's my father? I'm his employee? And I've been to ranges / LGS where employees are open carrying and i'm pretty sure all those 10/15 people there dont meet the BS "Justifiable Needs" to be able to carry. Obviously you can carry at a range, how else do you shoot? It's getting permission to do so. Some LGS employees may get permits only to carry at work. A father son relationship and or employee in the eyes of the law is about as relevant as being a complete stranger or patron. Is it a range? Is it your home? Is it your property? Is it your business? Do you have rights to the property? Do you have a CCW? If the answer is no, then no carry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orangesolo 26 Posted August 22, 2016 Obviously you can carry at a range, how else do you shoot? It's getting permission to do so. Some LGS employees may get permits only to carry at work. A father son relationship and or employee in the eyes of the law is about as relevant as being a complete stranger or patron. Is it a range? Is it your home? Is it your property? Is it your business? Do you have rights to the property? Do you have a CCW? If the answer is no, then no carry. So is there a way for me to get a permit to carry my weapon at work? Also, by your statement that means I can't carry at home either? It is my home but it's not my property. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted August 22, 2016 Sorry, They are right no carry at your fathers business. So what's the story about getting kidnapped? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted August 22, 2016 So is there a way for me to get a permit to carry my weapon at work? Also, by your statement that means I can't carry at home either? It is my home but it's not my property. It's not a must meet all requirements. If you can say yes to any of those statements your OK to carry. You can carry on your residence no matter who owns it by law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted August 22, 2016 I wonder if you owned 1% of the business if that makes you a part owner and could? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted August 22, 2016 I wonder if you owned 1% of the business if that makes you a part owner and could? 0% is fine. Just need name on paperwork. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orangesolo 26 Posted August 22, 2016 It's not a must meet all requirements. If you can say yes to any of those statements your OK to carry. You can carry on your residence no matter who owns it by law. Okay well I guess if that's a general view of it, it makes sense. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. Sorry, They are right no carry at your fathers business. So what's the story about getting kidnapped? I don't really feel comfortable explaining the story. (I've only told one person outside my family and that's my ex lol). In basic terms, was kidnapped, held at gunpoint, robbed, thrown on the side of street situation. 0% is fine. Just need name on paperwork. So if my father gets his FID and buys a firearm to keep here, I still wouldn't be able too unless my name is on the paperwork? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted August 22, 2016 So this may be a legit convo.... Now PK what's your opinion on it all has to do with the prosecutor? We all know the law but how it's enforced is up to the prosecutor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AVB-AMG 530 Posted August 23, 2016 orangesolo: Back in January of this year, I asked a similar question. Specifically, are employees at public gun ranges allowed to open carry guns?I was asking since my interpretation of NJ law was that they may not, even though it seems pretty common. But as you will see if you read the multiple responses, it is a question still in debate. Here is the link to that thread: http://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/79963-is-it-legal-in-nj-for-gun-rangestore-employees-to-open-carry/?hl=%2Bcan+%2Bgun+%2Brange+%2Bemployees+%2Bopen+%2Bcarry+%2Bguns%3F AVB-AMG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,434 Posted August 23, 2016 In basic terms, was kidnapped, held at gunpoint, robbed, thrown on the side of street situation. In NJ this still wouldn't meet the bar for Justifiable Need /bitter sarcasm In all seriousness, how is the above different from Almeida (sp?). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted August 23, 2016 Forget kidnapping. If you are murdered you probably meet the JN requirements (note that I said probably-it would have to be a hit on you not just a random shooting). Gotta love NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lambo2936 297 Posted August 23, 2016 If the OP was kidnapped and has proof (police report, etc.) and has the money to sue NJ, i'm sure he'll get a permit too. They certainly wont give it willingly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted August 23, 2016 If the OP was kidnapped and has proof (police report, etc.) and has the money to sue NJ, i'm sure he'll get a permit too. They certainly wont give it willingly. I doubt that. How many people ever get kidnapped twice? He won't have to ever worry about that again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted August 23, 2016 Okay so this is a weird one. I've been thinking about how to describe the situation but I have no idea how to so here we go. I have an NJ FID My father does not. His employee does not. Now my father own's a store in NJ. I've been thinking about keeping a firearm here for his/mine/employee protection. While i'm working, i've been thinking about CCW on the premises. What if something happens where he or his employee is forced to use it without having an FID? (Father rent's out the floor/level store is located on, is it legal for me to CCW? It's his property though, not mine? But technically it's family property and i'm his son? Idk it's confusing.. Might need to talk to lawyer). Also the same thing, CCW at the house. Parents own the house, so it's their property, can I still carry when i'm home? I don't live in a dangerous area or are at a high level of risk, but i've been kidnapped and held at gunpoint for trusting the wrong person (like an idiot) and now feel like I can't give out trust that easily. So a firearm as a backup would be lovely. AANNDDD Yes before everyone goes crazy, I know the simple versions of NJ CCW laws. I'm not carrying outside of the property, only on the premises. the fPid doesn't matter. what DOES matter is that no one is allowed to carry on his business, except him. only the business owner may carry on his fixed place of business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe 95 Posted August 23, 2016 Okay well I guess if that's a general view of it, it makes sense. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. I don't really feel comfortable explaining the story. (I've only told one person outside my family and that's my ex lol). In basic terms, was kidnapped, held at gunpoint, robbed, thrown on the side of street situation. So if my father gets his FID and buys a firearm to keep here, I still wouldn't be able too unless my name is on the paperwork? Exactly. The law hasn't changed since the start of this thread lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RootSki 5 Posted August 23, 2016 Is the business an exempted location to transport a firearm to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orangesolo 26 Posted August 23, 2016 If the OP was kidnapped and has proof (police report, etc.) and has the money to sue NJ, i'm sure he'll get a permit too. They certainly wont give it willingly. I do have proof that it was a kidnapping and armed robbery, the only charge that didnt stick was illegal possession of a firearm (he obviously threw the gun away or hid it). Court starts in september. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe 95 Posted August 23, 2016 Is the business an exempted location to transport a firearm to? It is for the business owner(s) ONLY. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites