Pinned and welded muzzle device

[70gto 142]

Sorry for the really stupid question.  If you have a 16 inch barell do you still have to pin and weld a muzzle device on if you choose to have one? Or can you just leave it screwed on and change it if you want to as you go?

[Displaced Texan 11,752]

In NJ, you cannot have a threaded barrel on an AR. You must pin and weld a muzzle device or a thread protector, regardless of your barrel is 16” or greater. 

[RUTGERS95 890]

1 minute ago, Displaced Texan said:

In NJ, you cannot have a threaded barrel on an AR. You must pin and weld a muzzle device or a thread protector, regardless of your barrel is 16” or greater. 

did this change recently?  16 and longer was ok with just a pin

[Displaced Texan 11,752]

To my knowledge, in NJ, it must be pinned and welded. Threaded barrel would count as a feature on the ‘naughty list’. 
 

You can have a threaded barrel on a bolt action rifle all day long...

[RUTGERS95 890]

3 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

To my knowledge, in NJ, it must be pinned and welded. Threaded barrel would count as a feature on the ‘naughty list’. 
 

You can have a threaded barrel on a bolt action rifle all day long...

unless they've recently changed the law that I'm unaware, 16" and greater only requires a pin

14.5" must be pinned and welded with whatever brake to reach the minimum of 16"

[DaddyNick 408]

The "evil" features stuff only applies to evil semi automatic firearms.  Those same features are not considered evil on bolt action guns.  But don't quote me. Not an expert.  LOL

[70gto 142]

Ok so if my barell is 16 or greater I still have to pin and weld something on?

[JohnnyB 4,326]

45 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

unless they've recently changed the law that I'm unaware, 16" and greater only requires a pin

14.5" must be pinned and welded with whatever brake to reach the minimum of 16"

I think @RUTGERS95 was correct above but I'm not certain. So if your barrel is 16 or greater I still have to pin but NOT weld.

[70gto 142]

Gotcha thanks still a stupid rule

[RUTGERS95 890]

4 minutes ago, 70gto said:

Gotcha thanks still a stupid rule

absolutely and shows the pols don't even understand the purpose of the flash hider vs the brake

still no more dumb than the rule against the adj stock.  I mean, you pin it short, medium length or long but can't move back and forth????  that is the dumbest thing I've heard of in a long time

[70gto 142]

If stupid were money NJ would be the richest state in the country. Well maybe after California and new york

[Chuck 1]

Just finished my 1st build. Barrel is 16" does it have to be pinned? Can't you just tig a spot or 2 to make it permanent?

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

Does not have to be pinned, as it is already 16+

But the threads need to be made permanently inaccessible. One way or another.

[antiriad 10]

On 7/12/2020 at 8:30 PM, JohnnyB said:

I think @RUTGERS95 was correct above but I'm not certain. So if your barrel is 16 or greater I still have to pin but NOT weld.

I am pretty sure you don't need to weld for greater than 16. When I bought my PSL-54C with 20inch barrel in 2010 from Century Arms it came with a side pin which holds the flash hider in place. When I called them about it they said just pinned.  I also had gotten a .22LR STG-44 a few years ago and the FH was also pinned and not welded. 

[silverado427 10,731]

16"  barrel just pinned muzzle device

14.5" barrel  pinned and welded  muzzle device. 

[antiriad 10]

BTW. These are my 2 uppers with pinned muzzle brakes (16" 7.62 and 18" Wylde). I drilled a 1/16 hole all the way to the barrel, hammered in the pin and then put some silver and black thermal paste to cover the holes. That should be ok? Correct

The paste can be removed easily but the pin might have to be drilled out.

[JT Custom Guns 957]

Let me clear this up a tad.

If it is a Barrel shorter than 16'' The muzzle devise MUST be welded as per federal law. Pinning it, and welding over the pin is acceptable.

If it's a 16" barrel it must be pinned, but many FFL's Weld the pin so it doesn't fall out. Some dealers just press the pin in, some Pin and stake the pin and some pin & weld - all are acceptable but there have been a few examples of pressed pins working themselves out over time so we pin/weld.

Some dealers may even tac weld the device on but that never really looks good (jmo)

So it's just a matter of varying terminology as to Pin / Weld.........

JT

[JeepGunner 109]

On 9/9/2020 at 5:06 PM, antiriad said:

BTW. These are my 2 uppers with pinned muzzle brakes (16" 7.62 and 18" Wylde). I drilled a 1/16 hole all the way to the barrel, hammered in the pin and then put some silver and black thermal paste to cover the holes. That should be ok? Correct

The paste can be removed easily but the pin might have to be drilled out.

Nice work.  What did you use as a pin?

[InFamous 311]

Is your friend. 

[JeepGunner 109]

24 minutes ago, InFamous said:

Is your friend. 

JB Weld or even better, Quick Steel over the pin to keep it from loosening.

But you still need a pin.  I'm thinking drill bit end or steel punch?

[InFamous 311]

I used a VG6 Gamma which had a hole already drilled from the factory, we used a pin, cut off the excess, and put JB weld on it. That was under the supervision of a former Chief of Police and by a gunsmith LOL...so I guess it passes muster. 

 

[JeepGunner 109]

2 minutes ago, InFamous said:

I used a VG6 Gamma which had a hole already drilled from the factory, we used a pin, cut off the excess, and put JB weld on it. That was under the supervision of a former Chief of Police and by a gunsmith LOL...so I guess it passes muster. 

 

Nice!  How far into the threads of the barrel did you drill down to?

[InFamous 311]

1 minute ago, StarGazer said:

Nice!  How far into the threads of the barrel did you drill down to?

16" barrel so didn't drill down into it at all, he just tapped it in and JB welded it, it won't come off easily even if I wanted to try, but the threads would "probably" be fine? IDK, it would pass the sniff test regardless. 

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

1 hour ago, InFamous said:

I used a VG6 Gamma which had a hole already drilled from the factory, we used a pin, cut off the excess, and put JB weld on it. That was under the supervision of a former Chief of Police and by a gunsmith LOL...so I guess it passes muster. 

 

Fail

1 hour ago, InFamous said:

16" barrel so didn't drill down into it at all, he just tapped it in and JB welded it, it won't come off easily even if I wanted to try, but the threads would "probably" be fine? IDK, it would pass the sniff test regardless. 

Double fail.

 

Imo

 

 

The pin must anchor to the threads via a hole in the barrel

The depth of the hole should be sufficient to destroy the threads should be twisted off ..

 

Imo

[InFamous 311]

The muzzle device was screwed on with more torque than I could possibly do with my own hands to take it off. The pin was tapped in with a hammer which would go into the threads. JB weld was used to make sure you can not take the pin out. My comment about the threads "probably" being fine are an assumption. I have no idea, nor will I ever know because the muzzle device will never be taken off. I honestly don't know if it could be taken off without damaging the barrel. 

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

1 hour ago, InFamous said:

The muzzle device was screwed on with more torque than I could possibly do with my own hands to take it off. The pin was tapped in with a hammer which would go into the threads. JB weld was used to make sure you can not take the pin out. My comment about the threads "probably" being fine are an assumption. I have no idea, nor will I ever know because the muzzle device will never be taken off. I honestly don't know if it could be taken off without damaging the barrel. 

That is all irrelevant - it is not what is commonly done and with the proper breaker bar - I bet I could get it off easy peasy.

 

I have seen work done this way and it is substandard.

You need to drill a hole into the barrel threads to a suitable depth - the pin prepped (rounded) so it sits flush in the hole - then welded over.

That way when and *if* someone ever took a long breaker bar - the pin, if spun with the muzzle device, would destroy the threads - thus rendering the barrel unable to accept another muzzle device.

The most 'permanent' way would be to silver solder it on....

However, for our application here - the above method - simple pin/wled - would suffice - not torque and jb weld

The application of JB Weld in any form or fashion to adhere a muzzle device, is "rube goldberg" stuff...

HOW CAN I REMOVE J-B WELD AFTER IT IS FULLY CURED?

When fully cured, J-B Weld can only be removed by grinding or filing it off, or by directly heating the product above the 600º maximum temperature threshold.

All the info above is my *opinion* and like assholes, everyone has one - YMMV

[JackDaWack 2,895]

4 hours ago, InFamous said:

The muzzle device was screwed on with more torque than I could possibly do with my own hands to take it off. The pin was tapped in with a hammer which would go into the threads. JB weld was used to make sure you can not take the pin out. My comment about the threads "probably" being fine are an assumption. I have no idea, nor will I ever know because the muzzle device will never be taken off. I honestly don't know if it could be taken off without damaging the barrel. 

Tapping a pin in does absolutely nothing if the threads aren't drilled to counter sink the pin. 

You can find out easily... grab a wrench and screw it off... it would take an incredible amount of force to strip the threads if the pin is counter sunk. Most muzzle devices are torqued on with a crush washer, maybe 40lbs of force.

[JeepGunner 109]

My understanding, limited because NJ is the land of firearm law confusion, is that pinning is the minimum requirement on 16" and above barrels. Welding or epoxy is going beyond. Getting into the threads, rounding the bottom of the pin, are things I agree with as the threads will be buggered if the muzzle device is ever removed.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

5 minutes ago, StarGazer said:

My understanding, limited because NJ is the land of firearm law confusion, is that pinning is the minimum requirement on 16" and above barrels. Welding or epoxy is going beyond. Getting into the threads, rounding the bottom of the pin, are things I agree with as the threads will be buggered if the muzzle device is ever removed.

There are federal standards for anything under 16". There are no standards in NJ beyond that. IT just has to be "permanent"

 

No one is going to check a muzzle device with their hand to see if it will unscrew, even a removable one will require a tool, so I'm unsure why that is a standard measurement being used above. Maybe they will look for a pin or weld mark, but I'm gonna guess that anything in question will be confiscated for review. No one just walks around inspecting rifles for no reason.

[JeepGunner 109]

11 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

There are federal standards for anything under 16".

No one just walks around inspecting rifles for no reason.

Yes, the ATF only provides guidance to how to get to 16+" permanently.  NJ is a different ball of wax with barrel threads somehow being evil and deadly.

Inspection of rifles is not likely, but even in a clearly justified self defense situation in the home:

The police will arrest you.

They will take all your guns away.

They will inspect every weapon to add charges.

As an other and more likely senario, a ERPO will also give them reason to inspect and charge.