Combos?

[bulpup 98]

Okay, I am looking into both the Moss. 500 combo with the slug barrel and the smooth + choke and the Remington 870 version.

 

Dick's has the price diff. at $150 ( do I have to tell you the one that costs more?)

 

I am really looking to get started with the shotgun now that I am lined up for the NJ hunting license. Any input would be helpful.

 

Right now my gut says go with the steel bolt vs the aluminum.

[matt6669 71]

Spend the money on the remington you won't be disappointed.

 

M

[Jon 264]

Remmy Remmy Remmy Remmy. I've gotten 3 deer in NJ with my 870.

[Old School 611]

Okay, I am looking into both the Moss. 500 combo with the slug barrel and the smooth + choke and the Remington 870 version.

 

Dick's has the price diff. at $150 ( do I have to tell you the one that costs more?)

 

I am really looking to get started with the shotgun now that I am lined up for the NJ hunting license. Any input would be helpful.

 

Right now my gut says go with the steel bolt vs the aluminum.

 

Now I'm going to confuse you even more...

Both guns have "steel" bolts locking up into steel barrel extensions. The Mossberg has an aluminum reciever.

 

I quess you are looking at an 870 Express. Both guns have plastic parts. The Remmy you can put a mag extension on the 500 you can't.

 

My 2 cents

[lunker 274]

I have the Mossberg 500 Combo. It came with the 18" home defense barrel and the 28" vented rib barrel. The gun is well built and can take a beating. If you needed a gun that you didn't feel bad about getting mucked up while out hunting, I would take the Mossberg. Also, I like where the safety is positioned on the gun. It is a tang on the top of the receiver. It feels better placed and more natural to activate/deactivate than Remington's. Frankly, I don't think the base level Remmy shotgun is worth more, or better built than the Mossy (but that is just my opinion).

I also have a Remmy 1100 Trap shotgun. It is a step up in class, so there isn't really a comparison to the base level Mossberg. I will say that Remington Quality Control has been shitty for the last few years on all but their top-of-the-line rifles. Do an internet search on "Remington Quality Control". Of course the 1100 came with a cracked front handguard, which Remington replaced. And the first time I took the gun out, the front sight bead cracked in half. Remington replaced it too. I am hoping nothing else goes wrong with it. At least they have good customer service. But I just wanted to show that I am not a blind Mossy partisan or Remington basher.

[67gtonut 847]

I have the Mossberg 500 Combo. It came with the 18" home defense barrel and the 28" vented rib barrel. The gun is well built and can take a beating. If you needed a gun that you didn't feel bad about getting mucked up while out hunting, I would take the Mossberg. Also, I like the safety position. It is a tang on the top of the receiver. It feels better placed and more natural to activate/deactivate than Remington's. .

 

Same set-up I have......

 

+1

on the safety location

[Caine 147]

Sadly, Mossberg Vs. Remington is similar to a Ford Vs. Chevy conversation. Most people (i.e. RayRay ) will blindly stick to one camp. I have 2 Mossbergs (500A, 590A1), 1 Remington (1100) and 1 Remington "clone" (NEF Pardner Pump). They're all good guns and serve their intended purposes. I'm of the opinion that when you're looking at the base models, there isn't much difference in quality and the decision should largely come down to your preference for some of the smaller "features".

 

IMHO there's 3 things the Mossbergs do a little better.

1. Safety location (as mentioned) - particularly important if you ever shoot left handed

2. Action release button location - you can access the button without having to move your shooting hand from the grip

3. Loading port - this is more of a "me" thing, but I like that the port on Mossbergs is open and doesn't have the loading "flap" (no idea what it's actually called)... for some reason the tip of my finger always ends up under the "flap" on Remingtons.

 

So, if I had to pick one, I'd go with the Mossberg for the above reasons.

[bulpup 98]

 

Right now my gut says go with the steel bolt vs the aluminum.

 

Now I'm going to confuse you even more...

Both guns have "steel" bolts locking up into steel barrel extensions. The Mossberg has an aluminum reciever.

 

My 2 cents

 

 

Actually that is far from confusing, thanks.

 

Good inputs. Dealer tells me the Remington gets better resale value but the way I am thinking I want a 'keeper.'

 

The combos I am looking at are rifled barrel and vented rib smooth.

[sirsloop 1]

never understood that... buying something because of its resale value. Like you are expecting to sell it at some time? Might as well save up some extra cash and buy something that you do not expect to sell.

[lunker 274]

If it will be a "keeper" and you are willing to spend more money to get something nice, I think Remington has better choices as you step up the quality/price (not that they are always related) scale. The Wingmaster is a really nice gun. So is the 1100 and 11-87. IMO, Mossberg is kind of Chevy/Ford all across their product line. Remington goes from Chevy to Cadillac (or Ford to Lincoln, if you swing that way). They definitely have more sporting shotgun options if you are into breaking clays.

Others opinions may vary.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

...

IMHO there's 3 things the Mossbergs do a little better.

1. Safety location (as mentioned) - particularly important if you ever shoot left handed But the mossy safety is bad with pistol grips

2. Action release button location - you can access the button without having to move your shooting hand from the grip I can just reach foward with trigger finger. Its easier to find blindly I think

3. Loading port - this is more of a "me" thing, but I like that the port on Mossbergs is open and doesn't have the loading "flap" (no idea what it's actually called)... for some reason the tip of my finger always ends up under the "flap" on Remingtons. I like it closed up. I guess i dont like looking at a big hole in the bottom of my gun. BTW that flap is the elevator on the remington.

So, if I had to pick one, I'd go with the Mossberg for the above reasons.

 

 

 

Not argueing, just making some points :hand:

[coldsolderjoint 84]

I like the Mossberg better myself.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

IMHO there's 3 things the Mossbergs do a little better.

1. Safety location (as mentioned) - particularly important if you ever shoot left handed

2. Action release button location - you can access the button without having to move your shooting hand from the grip

3. Loading port - this is more of a "me" thing, but I like that the port on Mossbergs is open and doesn't have the loading "flap" (no idea what it's actually called)... for some reason the tip of my finger always ends up under the "flap" on Remingtons.

 

So, if I had to pick one, I'd go with the Mossberg for the above reasons.

 

I shoot lefty so the safety position is important to me and I don't like the elevator either. My 9200 has it and it annoys me to no end. The action release I can get used to but the other things are #1 and #2 for me.

[dave545 15]

REMINGTON ALL DAY i won both and my friend has Mossbergs but he loves my Remington and always wants to trade lol

[njpilot 671]

Just for information purposes. Take it for what you will:

 

http://jth8260.tripod.com/870.html

 

The Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500

 

Justin T. Huang

 

February 2000, revised March 2000, May 2002.

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The person who is looking for a defense shotgun is typically faced with two main choices on today's market for pump guns -- the Remington 870 series and the Mossberg 500 series. So the natural question becomes, "which one is best for me?"

By the way, if you want my opinion, here is an article on what to look for in a defense shotgun.

 

A lot of people like the Remington 870 for a good pump-action defense shotgun. I am not one of them. This article explains why. My reasons for disliking the Remington 870 may not apply to you -- as in all my articles, my theme is that if it fits your particular person, then you should go with it! But in my opinion, there are some good, objective reasons for not selecting the Remington 870.

 

I. Prelude.

 

I am quite familiar with both the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500. My first shotgun was a Mossberg 590 and I bought my dad (quite to my regret, now) a Remington 870 Express Magnum for his birthday back in 1998. I still have my 590, which serves double duty alongside my Benelli M1 Super 90 Tactical. I have one friend with an identical Mossberg 590 and two other friends with Remington 870 Express Magnums in defense configuration.

 

II. Downsides to the Remington 870, as compared to the Mossberg 500.

 

In sum:

 

1. Installation of magazine extensions;

 

2. Installation of TacStar Sidesaddles;

 

3. Position of shell lifter;

 

4. Number of extractors;

 

5. Position of safety;

 

6. Position of slide release; and

 

7. Quality of finish (870 Express only).

 

Purchasing an 870 Police or Marine Magnum will obviate points #1 and 2. So if you do decide to get a Remington 870, get a Marine Magnum. But let's get into the details.

 

1. Installation of magazine extensions.

 

Late production (>1990, I think) shotguns have several nice modifications that will prevent the installation of certain defense accessories on Remington 870 shotguns. You get these free of charge, from the factory.

 

Two dimples have been machined into the 870's magazine tube, preventing the installation of a magazine extension. Nice, eh? If you add an extended magazine tube, the dimples will jam up the follower at the end of the factory magazine.

 

It apparently is Remington's belief that you don't need more than a certain number of shells for defense, unless you are using an 870 Police. Infuriatingly enough, even the 870 HD (Home Defense) sports these dimples. So the police can have high capacity but us regular folk cannot. Sounds oddly familiar though.

 

The solution is to use a drill or Dremel-type tool to remove these dimples. Or you can vote with your dollars and spend your money somewhere else. Might I add that no other shotgun made by Winchester, Benelli or Beretta, etc.) has this feature?

 

Now to be fair, some models of the Mossberg 500, by the way the barrel band extends over TOP of the magazine tube, also limit installation of a magazine extension. If you decide to buy a Mossberg 500 and want to add a magazine extension, check for this item prior to purchase.

 

2. Installation of TacStar Sidesaddle.

 

As discussed in my article on defense shotguns, the TacStar Sidesaddle can be a useful accessory. For the uninitiated, the TacStar Sidesaddle is a plastic shell carrier that bolts directly to the left side of a shotgun's receiver, allowing the carry of four or six shells. It's a nice little item as you can pop shells out of the Sidesaddle and into the magazine with ease.

 

Well, Remington has decided that if you have an 870 Express (the most economical 870 on today's market) or an 870 Wingmaster (a step up in quality from the Express, especially the finish), you're going to have some trouble installing the Sidesaddle. The slide on the Express and Wingmaster shotguns is too long -- about 1.75" too long -- and so that excess will have to be chopped off if you want to use a Sidesaddle.

 

There are a few ways around this nice little modification. First, you can buy a Surefire Responder (weapon-mounted light) for around $200-300 -- the Responder does not have any clearance problems with the Sidesaddle. I am a big fan of weapon-mounted lights on long arms and if you have the cash, I would strongly recommend buying a Responder for your home defense gun -- you must know your target (and what's beyond it) before pulling the trigger at all times. In low light situations, a weapon mounted light is key.

 

But let's say you don't have an extra $200 laying around to buy a Responder. Fair enough. TacStar, probably in response to peeved Remington 870 owners, came out with a four-shell Sidesaddle which fits the Remington 870 Express and Wingmaster without modification. But you lose two shells in the process.

 

The last way around this problem is to buy a special shortened slide from Remington. But Remington will only sell the shortened slide to owners of the Remington 870 Police model.

 

I think now you're starting to see a pattern. Why does Remington do this? As I stated in my other article, I think it has something to do with political correctness. Political correctness in a gun manufacturer is not something I hold in high regard. And again, no other defense shotgun manufacturer sees fit to incorporate this nice feature. If you're like me, the above two reasons are already enough to get you agnry enough to vote with your dollars and spend your money elsewhere. But let's go on.

 

3. Position of shell lifter.

 

For the tyros here, the shell lifter is the device that takes a fresh shell from the magazine tube and lifts it up for the slide to ram it home into the chamber. So there are basically two positions for a shell lifter -- up or down.

 

The Remington 870's shell lifter remains in the down position until the slide is retracted fully to the rear and starts its journey forward to insert the shell into the chamber. The Mossberg 500's shell lifter stays in the up position until the slide is fully retracted.

 

What does this mean for you? Well, imagine trying to load shells into your magazine tube, especially under stress. When the shell lifter stays down during the loading process, your thumb can get stuck between the end of the shell lifter and the end of the magazine tube. Painfully stuck, may I add -- can you tell this has happened to me before?

 

This problem is even worse with the Benelli M1 Super 90 shotgun. The Benelli shell lifter stays down like the 870 but also has a slot cut into the shell lifter at the end closest to the magazine tube. In essence, this slot allows more space for your thumb to get caught between the lifter and the tube.

 

The Mossberg shell lifter, by staying in the up position through the entire loading process, does not suffer from this problem. Good idea, Mossberg.

 

4. Number of extractors.

 

The extractor is a claw-like piece of metal attached to the bolt. The claw hooks onto the rim of the shotshell and pulls it from the chamber.

 

The Remington 870 has one extractor. The Mossberg 500 has two. Two is better than one.

 

5. Position of safety.

 

The Remington 870 safety is located on the triggerguard, to the rear, in a cross-bolt fashion. You press to the right to make the weapon "on safe" and to the left to take the weapon "off safe".

 

The Mossberg 500's safety is found on the top of the receiver tang. You pull the safety button back (towards you) to make the weapon "on safe" and press the safety forward with your thumb to take the weapon "off safe".

 

To me, the Mossberg's safety is more instinctive -- press her forward and you're ready to go. Not everyone will agree with me here, but you should see which system you prefer.

 

But because the safety on the Mossberg is actuated with the thumb, you are able to manipulate the safety without moving your trigger finger from the indexed position along the side of the triggerguard. This is not possible with the Remington 870, as the safety must be actuated with the trigger finger -- and not only that, you must move the finger away from the indexed position to behind the triggerguard.

 

To see why this is a problem, consider the situation where you are moving about with your shotgun -- most scattergun experts recommend you move with your shotgun in cruiser ready status. See, e.g., John S. Farnam, The Farnam Method of Defensive Shotgun and Rifle Shooting 49-50(1997); Gabriel Suarez, The Tactical Shotgun 88 (1996). Cruiser ready to Farnam means safety off; Suarez leaves the choice up to the user but his book generally assumes that the safety is on. Choose which one works best for you -- I prefer safety off, but let us assume that you want the safety on.

 

So you round the corner, and there's the goblin rushing you with an upraised knife. Your body's adrenaline dump hits you, causing tunnel vision and more importantly, reduced fine motor skills.

 

If you are using a Mossberg, flicking the safety off before (or while) arming the shotgun is done with the dominant thumb and the trigger finger can stay in the indexed position until you are ready to fire -- all it needs to do is to move to the trigger and press. However, if you are using a Remington 870, your trigger finger has to: (1) move to its position behind the triggerguard; (2) disengage the safety; (3) move forward to the trigger; and (4) press.

 

With the Mossberg, your trigger finger only has two steps -- move back into the triggerguard and fire -- instead of four. And with the Remington, your trigger finger is going to do some serious traveling, all under the reduced fine motor capacity of stress. Not a good thing, believe me.

 

Remington advocates will say that it is just as easy for the Mossberg user, with the same stress-induced motor impairment, to botch the disengagement of the thumb safety. True enough. But in either case, if you botch the safety release, your gun won't fire. So the Mossberg and Remington are equivalent in this respect.

 

But assuming that the safety is succesfully disengaged, the Remington user's trigger finger must move FORWARD into the triggerguard and then BACKWARD to press the trigger. The Mossberg user merely moves his or her finger BACKWARD towards the trigger, and continues that BACKWARD motion to actuate the trigger. The Remington thus forces the user to move his or her trigger finger in an opposite direction to actuation of the trigger.

 

Consider whether you want to put up with this nice little approach when you're under stress of a defensive situation. Remington users, since shotguns aren't drop-safe even with the safety engaged, I would strongly consider leaving the safety OFF when you are moving about in cruiser ready. If you religiously observe rule #3 (keep your finger outside of the triggerguard until you are ready to fire) you should be okay.

 

Consider also that the Mossberg system fits better with with the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) theory of training for those of us who also own AR15 type rifles. You actuate the safety with your thumb and the trigger with your trigger finger. Sticking with one method for both shotgun and rifle will cut down on the problem of conditional branching in your training. Otherwise you will be stuck with two methods -- activate safety with thumb on the AR15, but with the trigger finger on the Remington 870, which will increase the difficulty of your training regimen and present a possible conditional branching problem in the stress of battle.

 

Lastly, lefties will appreciate the ambidextrous safety of the Mossberg 500, straight out of the box. With the Remington 870, you either must buy a dedicated left-handed model or I'm sure someone sells a lefty safety for the Remington 870 -- but that's more money out of your pocket, lefties.

 

. Position of slide release.

 

The Remington 870's slide release is found on the left side of the triggerguard, to the front. The Mossberg 500's slide release is found to the rear of the triggerguard, to the right.

 

Maybe some of you all with long fingers can reach the Remington's slide release with your trigger finger. That would mean you could wrap your trigger finger around the front of the triggerguard, to the left side of the triggerguard. That's one long finger, but I guess some people have them.

 

You could use your non-dominant hand to actuate the release, but that's not the recommended method of speedloading or ammunition swapping. Your non-dominant hand will be going for the new round of ammunition while your dominant hand stays on the grip of your shotgun, which is still pointed at the goblin. See Farnam, supra, at 90-96; Suarez, supra, at 107-117.

 

By the way, you'll have to move your trigger finger from the indexed position while you release the slide on your Remington 870. More complications with the trigger finger, more to go wrong.

 

I much prefer the Mossberg's slide release -- I don't have to move my trigger finger at all from the indexed position. In fact, I don't have to move my dominant hand at all. I simply actuate the release with my middle finger on my dominant hand. Easy, eh?

 

Now why would you need to use your slide release during a defense situation? The answer is that you might need to switch between buckshot and slugs for defense work. Buckshot is generally good only to 25 yards but slugs can increase your scattergun's effective range to 75-100 yards. Furthermore, slugs provide superior penetration against hard targets. See Farnam, supra, at 94-96; Suarez, supra, at 107-111.

 

If you've got a round of buck in the chamber but you want to switch to slugs, you have to work the slide release to get the buckshot out -- assuming you can't just fire the buckshot shell at the goblin. Both Farnam and Suarez espouse methods of ammunition swapping that rely on the slide release. See Farnam, supra; Suarez, supra.

 

Therefore, you can see how having easy access to the slide release can be critical if you want to switch shells with a live one in the chamber. Unless your fingers are long enough to reach around the front of the triggerguard to hit the Remington's slide release, under stress, I'd go with the Mossberg.

 

7. Quality of finish.

 

The Remington 870 Express comes with a black crackle finish. I don't know what it is, but it ain't bluing or parkerizing. For the same amount of money, you can get a Mossberg 500 with a nice slick blued or parkerized finish. This is just a personal preference, mind you.

 

III. Downsides of the Mossberg 500

 

It ain't all roses with the Mossberg, people. And besides, if I mentioned only the strengths of the Mossbergs but left out the weaknesses, it wouldn't be fair.

 

1. Plastic safety button and triggerguard.

 

The safety button on the Mossberg 500 series is plastic. So is the triggerguard. Some persons have reported problems with these plastic parts -- they apparently break rather easily.

 

This seemed to affect the US armed forces which were issued the Mossberg shotgun as well. To that end, Mossberg now offers the 500 and 590 Military models. These have steel triggerguards and (I think) safety buttons. This will cost you a bit more money, if you feel that having a metal triggerguard and safety button is necessary. The plastic parts on my 590 haven't failed me yet.

 

2. Aluminum receivers.

 

The receiver of the Remington 870 is steel, while the receivers on the Mossberg 500s are aluminum alloy. Steel is certainly stronger than aluminum, but at the cost of added weight. Durability of the receiver has never been a problem for me, but take this into consideration. Especially if you intend to add a Sidesaddle -- if you over-torque the mounting screws on the Sidesaddle, it's easier to warp an aluminum receiver than a steel one. Sufficient warping and you can bind up your shotgun's bolt.

 

3. Surefire Responders and the Mossberg 590.

 

Want a Surefire Responder on your Mossberg 590? Unfortunately, for the standard Responder you will have to grind down your bayonet lug. That's not something that anyone can do in their garage.

 

Surefire has introduced the Responder model 623A1 which does not require removal of the bayonet lug. As of the date of this article, I have yet to see one on the shelves.

 

4. Scattergun Technologies.

 

You have to wonder why Scattergun Technologies, a subsidiary of Wilson Combat, works only with Remington 870 shotguns. Maybe they have some sort of financial arrangement with Remington, who knows. In any case, you have to wonder why they don't offer customized Mossberg shotguns.

 

5. Military shotguns.

 

The Mossberg 500/590 Military was the military issue shotgun up until very recently, having been displaced by the Benelli M4 Super 90 shotgun. The M4 Super 90 is a convertible pump/semi-auto shotgun with collapsable stock. While the Mossberg shotguns passed the 3,000 round buckshot test to become the standard military shotgun, they are no longer the primary issue shotgun.

 

I'm not sure if the Remington 870 was ever a standard issue shotgun for the United States military.

 

6. Magazine Extensions on some Mossberg 500s.

 

As mentioned above, some Mossberg 500s limit installation of magazine extensions due to the way the barrel band loops over top of the magazine tube. I don't know why they do this.

 

IV. Conclusion

 

The Remington 870 is a fine shotgun, but not for me. Some of the above reasons are based on personal preference, but others are not. I don't think you will be making a huge mistake if you do select a Remington 870 as your defense shotgun, but please be aware of the various pitfalls that exist.

 

Please remember, if you buy a Remington 870, buy an 870 Police or Marine Magnum! You won't have to deal with the problems with the magazine extensions or Sidesaddles.

 

Some people don't care about the politically correct magazine dimples and Sidesaddle problems that Remington sees fit to include with the 870. As long as they get a good deal, there is no need to vote with their dollars -- for those people. That's their decision.

 

After all, there are people who still buy Ruger firearms, even after William B. Ruger supported the high-capacity magazine ban and voluntarily restricted availability of high-capacity magazines and certain other defense-specific modifications for his Mini-14 rifle -- long before the 1994 assault weapon and high-capacity mag ban went into effect.

 

As long as they get a good deal for their money, they could care less.

 

I am not at all surprised at this. As a NRA life member, I am told that there are 65-80 million gun owners in the United States, with only 3.0-3.5 million members of the National Rifle Association (I am not including other gun-rights groups like the Gun Owners of America -- I'm a GOA life member too). Thus, only a measly FIVE PERCENT of gun owners give a hoot enough to shell out $35 per year to fight for their gun rights. The other 95% ride off the efforts of that five percent, all for the cost of a few magazines or boxes of ammunition per year.

 

That's their right. You decide whether you want to vote with your dollars or not.

[henrym 19]

Owning both, I have found that the Remington's action is not as smooth, but is also simpler to strip, clean, and lube. While the 500 is more complex in these areas, it seems to be a bit smoother. But thats just my .02

[maideneddie 35]

Just buy a Browning BPS!!! Problem solved

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I grew up with an 870L (lefty wingmaster) so of course I'm gonna say get the Remmy! I'm so used to the safety, elevator, slide release that I can run one in the dark (and I have).

They are just better-made shotguns. There's a reason why the 870 is the most popular and most manufactured pump action shotgun in the U.S. And I could care less what the military uses, that decision was made on 2 reasons. 1 was the stupid tang safety and the other was cost. 500's are cheaper guns.

 

Pete, I'm not THAT bad am I?

[Caine 147]

You actually gave a logical reason for picking Remington this time... usually you just say "870!!" and nothing else.. So, you're getting better

[bulpup 98]

Bloody 'ell.

 

This is a tough decision.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

If you go with a 500, you won't be disappointed. They are good shotguns as well. Either gun will get to where you want to go. Let us know what you decide on doing.

[Don't Tread On Me 4]

When I was making the same decision you are now a few months ago I went with the 870. When speaking with the guy at the store where i bought the gun he put it like this: "They are both great gun's but the Remington 870 is the same now as it was when Jesus used it, the thing is reliable as hell"

[bulpup 98]

Mossberg 500 combo for the win.

 

I was very concerned about the aluminum receiver and the plastic trigger guard (how can that help a trigger lock?).

 

but the article that was posted that noted the military tests really helped. If the army can carry an aluminum receiver in the desert then I can use it on a range in New Jersey once in a while.

 

So with that in mind, $150 less for a slug barrel w/scope/bird barrel combo, I think I made a wise and financially responsible choice for a first shotty.

 

I think if I am getting another in the future I would skip the 870 altogther and get one of thoe cool over/under models.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

and the 870 crowd shrugs their shoulder and says, "when the slide locks up, you'll wish you'd bought a real shotgun!"

 

jk

 

btw, you bringing her tomorrow?

[bulpup 98]

and the 870 crowd shrugs their shoulder and says, "when the slide locks up, you'll wish you'd bought a real shotgun!"

 

jk

 

btw, you bringing her tomorrow?

 

oh hell yea!!

[lunker 274]

Ray will be a Mossy convert in no time. It will be like Glocks all over again. He won't be able to drop the 870 fast enough.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Ray will be a Mossy convert in no time. It will be like Glocks all over again. He won't be able to drop the 870 fast enough.

 

Unfortunetly, not gonna happen. Don't get me wrong, 500s are great pumps, but they don't compare to an 870. Plus, they don't make a left-handed version.

In my opinion, it's like comparing a Ford F350 super duty diesel to a Dodge Ram 1500 with a V6. Yeah, both will carry stuff and get threw the mud, but one will run a lot longer and be worth more as a trade in.

[djg0770 481]

Ray will be a Mossy convert in no time.

 

I'm waiting for Ray to "discover" HiPoint.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Ray will be a Mossy convert in no time.

 

I'm waiting for Ray to "discover" HiPoint.

 

What? If I wanted a Hi-Point I'd jump in the Kill Van Kull and dive to the bottem. There's plenty of those ghetto blasters down there!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

And why so much haten on me! it's only cause I'm a Glock convert insn't it!