Magazine Safety

[67gtonut 847]

Hey all...

 

As most of you know.... I have a M&P 9mm Full-Size.

 

Not knowing at the time that I would start doing USPSA..... I bought my M&P with a magazine safety. This of course is sort of a pain already in the 2 matches I have attended...... having to load and empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag and holster....

 

I pretty much use the USPSA events to keep my tactical skills sharp, and I probably wont do more then 6-8 events a year...

 

Would you.....

 

1. Just suck it up with the magazine safety for the USPSA events and NOT mess with a gun that is used for Home Defense and CCW.

 

2. Remove the magazine safety to make the USPSA events less of an annoyance , yet take the chance of using a "modified" gun for Home Defense and CCW ( some people are critical of using a firearm that has had a "safety" feature altered.... should you end up in front of a jury for using it in a Defense situation)

 

3. Hey this is a great excuse to go get that M&P 9L that I want..... and have a strictly for USPSA tool.... but I do admit, money is tight, and this of course is the expensive option.

 

 

What do you think?

[Jon 264]

[kenw 293]

Leave the mag safety on the gun intact, use it for HD and casual shooting, and get the other gun for competition, have the safety pulled, do the trigger job, and shoot it the way you know you want to.

[67gtonut 847]

Leave the mag safety on the gun intact, use it for HD and casual shooting, and get the other gun for competition, have the safety pulled, do the trigger job, and shoot it the way you know you want to.

 

 

The 9L wouldnt even have the mag safety..... thats the big plus....

[Babaganoosh 192]

Leave the mag safety on the gun intact, use it for HD and casual shooting, and get the other gun for competition, have the safety pulled, do the trigger job, and shoot it the way you know you want to.

 

Agree

[vladtepes 1,060]

is the gun with the "safety removed or altered" any more dangerous than say a glock that had no safety to begin with. as long as that is just an "extra safety" and removing it does not compramise safe use of the firearm I personally would not hesitate to remove it. if you ever shoot someone (to save your life) the safety on your gun will likely be the least of your concerns. Unless of course there are specific instances where an altered safety made a self defense shooting questionable thus setting some legal precedent.

 

what if you did alter this gun to make it exclusively a gun for shooting competition and it had literally NO safety, and was completely customized. given that set of circumstances someone breaks into your home and that gun is right there. Are you going to stop and go get the home defense gun? I think that the odds are so unlikely that you will need to act in self defense with a firearm, and you take those odds and stack them on top of the odds of a modified safety being a "legal problem", given those facts I think you are over worrying about it.

 

My guess is the question of a removed safety coming up in a HD shooting would be "did you accidentally shoot" "did you accidentally shoot because you altered the safety". If that is the concern wouldn't all firearm modification create doubt "was the trigger too light?" "did he really mean to shoot". I think if you say "I shot this person because my life was in danger" and completely eliminated the notion of negligent discharge then the issue of the safety will be a legal moot point.

 

the obvious disclaimer being this is simply my opinion and I have no legal background, this is simply my take on the matter.

[kenw 293]

But he really wants the L.

[67gtonut 847]

But he really wants the L.

[vladtepes 1,060]

But he really wants the L.

 

 

LOL then he should get that one and sell the one he has. I would personally not tie up 2x the amount of money I need to, to accomplish a single task. but hey I guess I am a little on the cheap side! at the end of the day there is obviously not a right or wrong answer but that was just my 2 cents.

 

= )

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

I would not use a modified gun in any way for self defense. I can just see them saying that you pre-meditated the shooting by removing a safety device...

 

 

I voted buying a seperate gun. This way, the defense gun will stay clean and ready, and you can put off cleaning your comp. gun as you please.

[67gtonut 847]

The current M&P will never be sold.....Too much invested in it...

 

plus I cant use the 5" M&P for CCW as easily

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Buy a new one

[Caine 147]

Another vote for the L - throw in some APEX goodies, and you're good to go (if an option is to buy another gun, that's always the correct answer )

[tbtrout 141]

At least you have an excuse to buy a new gun, and not trying to make one up to justify the craving like the rest of us.

 

Buy the L

[PK90 3,570]

#2

[tepes 0]

if you have the cash and want another gun go for it. if money is tight then it would be just as easy to alter the one you have I think. can't ever have too many guns.

[LorenzoS 100]

The process to remove the magazine disconnect looks simple enough but I would not trust my own pathetic gunsmithing skill to do it myself on a weapon I would depend on for home defense. http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&P2.htm I have too much respect for Mr. Murphy. I would feel much better with a separate pistol set up for defense vs. games so getting a second gun would be my vote. That would also allow different springs, sights, lights, etc. as appropriate to the mission. Save your cash until you can afford the second gun.

[Shane45 807]

Pull the safety. I think there is some defencible position in that 1) its offered without and 2)a legitimate reason exists. I have the PDF on the mod if you need it.

 

Shane

 

 

 

edited to add that I would have canked it even if I didnt compete with it as I see it as a liability to me!

[Maksim 1,504]

I have 2 BHP's with mag safeties... blah. I felt like a retard after cleaning it to put the hammer down and it wouldn't go down.... I thought I put the gun back together wrong but then figured out there was no mag in it.

 

Buy the L. Do you want your competition gun to be taken away god forbid you have to use it for self defense? And besides... your USPSA gun needs a backup. =)

[67gtonut 847]

Ok..... saving for the 9L

[kenw 293]

Ok..... saving for the 9L

Big surprise there.

[LorenzoS 100]

On another note, I have the 9L and would rather I got a regular full size. I am one of many who ended up with an L that is prone to accuracy issues depending on ammo. Some loads group easily 3 - 4 inches at 25 yards, some groups 8 inches with fliers all over. The variance is more than can be attributed to ammo quality alone. Randy Lee of Apex attributes this to strange lockup timing with the long slide and says he is working on a match fit barrel in conjunction with Barsto to remedy the issue. The longer slide doesn't add any benefit other than sight radius, so I don't think it's worth the hassle of playing ammo roulette.

[67gtonut 847]

On another note, I have the 9L and would rather I got a regular full size. I am one of many who ended up with an L that is prone to accuracy issues depending on ammo. Some loads group easily 3 - 4 inches at 25 yards, some groups 8 inches with fliers all over. The variance is more than can be attributed to ammo quality alone. Randy Lee of Apex attributes this to strange lockup timing with the long slide and says he is working on a match fit barrel in conjunction with Barsto to remedy the issue. The longer slide doesn't add any benefit other than sight radius, so I don't think it's worth the hassle of playing ammo roulette.

 

Hmmmm...... No mention of this issue on the Brian Enos forum.... not doubting you, just have not run into it yet...

 

I already told Tony (TJsporting arms) to keep a lookout for a used 9L or even a normal Full-Size with no safeties for me....

[67gtonut 847]

I posted the exact question on 2 other forums to see what the results would be....

 

As of today:

 

NJGF

Leave Magazine Safety Intact (2 votes [11.11%])

Remove Magazine Safety (8 votes [44.44%])

Buy the 9L for USPSA (8 votes [44.44%])

 

M&P Forum

Leave Magazine Safety Intact [ 5 ] [27.78%]

Remove Magazine Safety [ 10 ] [55.56%]

Buy the 9L for USPSA [ 3 ] [16.67%]

 

Brian Enos Forum

 

Leave Magazine Safety Intact (4 votes [18.18%] - View)

Remove Magazine Safety (11 votes [50.00%] - View)

Buy the 9L for USPSA (7 votes [31.82%] - View)

 

So..... looks like removing the Mag Safety is in the lead.....

[kenw 293]

All well and good, but do the voters on the other forums know you personally, and do they know just how much you really want the L (or a Pro)?

 

I think not.

[67gtonut 847]

All well and good, but do the voters on the other forums know you personally, and do they know just how much you really want the L (or a Pro)?

 

I think not.

 

Oh I agree...... I am only social on this forum, the other forums I use for just gaining knowledge.... but was just curious on the results.....

 

You can see on this forum..... Removing Mag Safety and getting the new 9L is tied.... probably because my "friends" on this board are being a "bad" influence, because the know me

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I'm surprised the M&P forums don't want you to buy another!

[67gtonut 847]

I'm surprised the M&P forums don't want you to buy another!

 

Different breed.... They HATE safeties on that board for the most part, and are more geared to CCW stuff. If I had to guess.... 90% of that board carries their M&P everyday....

[MidwestPX 172]

I have no qualms whatsoever with using a modified firearm for self-defense. My carry Glock has an aftermarket, lightened connector and springs. These parts do not compromise the reliability of the firearm but give ME the advantage of a lighter, smoother trigger pull. In the event that I ever have to draw in protection of myself or my family, I want every advantage in my corner. I am not aware of any case law that would set a precedent that using a modified firearm in self-defense constituted pre-meditation. A friend of mine works for one of the biggest Glock customizing houses in the US and carries a heavily modified Glock. He is also unaware of any such case law and sells tons of modified Glocks for self-defense purposes.

 

The same can be said for my home defense ARs. They all feature upgraded triggers, action springs and bolts. Why? Because they make my rifle run better and should they ever need to be brought to bear on someone who isn't supposed to be in my house, they will perform better than they otherwise would have. Consider my HD 12ga. It features a side saddle shell carrier, upgraded stock and lit forearm. All these are common modifications made to enhance the capability of the tool for it's intended purpose.

 

If it were me, I'd ditch the mag safety. I am a firm believer that a good shoot is a good shoot, no matter what you used.

[67gtonut 847]

As with any decision..... reality always comes to the surface......

 

I do agree with the fact that I dont believe there is any case law that would effect me in the least if I used a modified gun in a HD situation....

 

Reality is.... I cant afford another gun right now, especially for such a limited purpose....

 

Reality is..... If I had been more knowledgeable when buying the M&P..... I would have opted for one without the mag safety anyway...

 

So.... for $8.00 , I am going to remove the Mag Safety and enjoy my pistol.....

 

Now I can take the $500 I saved, and put it toward taking more pistol courses..... win, win