Seen Today at a local Police Department...

[Guest megaman]

This is why I think we need to leave real gun law change in NJ up to the smart lawyers. A larger than usual portion of gun owners in this state dont really care too much. I am happy I send my money to the NRA/SAF/GOA/JFPO/ANJRPC. I also spend alot of money on hunting permits each year and pretty much take every friday off to go shoot something to bring home for the wife to find a recipe on the internet for...and spend at least 2 weekends a month a local matches, and at least an hour a week at the range...but thats me..non standard..I give a ****..my bad...

I get it. I also get my gun rights...

[Guest megaman]

well, how about this... instead of having a pitty party... complaining about the LEO, why not call the Chief, inform them of how the info they posted is wrong, if they dont take it down, call the NJ State Police... they WILL call the PD and make it straight. Then, call the Mayor's office, tell them you are a good law abiding tax paying resident, and the local PD is breaking the law and you will sue if you have to. Watch how quickly that sign gets ripped down.

 

All of that will get things fixed.

 

Complaining how unreasonable people are.... while it will make you feel good for 5 mins, DOES NOT SOLVE ANYTHING.

 

Me going off earlier was particularly about this.... time and time again, people come here, start complaining about stuff, putting in 5 hours arguing about it... while it could of been fixed in 15 mins or less, by making 3 phone calls, 5 mins each.

 

 

To make it very clear. This department has been sued over this and tried to wiggle their way out of the lawsuit by stating they have 'changed'...what did they change? Tacit compliance with a law that is clearly stated via 2 AG opinions and 1 NJSP memo to all police departments?

This is serious. Its beyond calling the chief and the news...Its time to go to court and straighten it out the right way so that everyone else can take advantage of the prevailing laws. See in court you cant run things the way you want with no uniformity. The whole reason for laws and the Federalist system is not to have them 'take the sign down'. Taking them to court says since we are here infront of the court we have attached a few items to this that need changing due to the lack of compliance with law. The court looks at the law. They look at NJ's emotional argument and they rule in favor of the law. Thats when you have change in laws and this forum can actually remove the NJ Gun Laws sub forum because we would be treated like adults...kinda like the adults on the other side of the Delaware in all directions and north of Lake Champlain with few exceptions.

[Maksim 1,504]

In that case... yes. =)

 

99% of the other cities... this would be solved with 3 phone calls.

 

Time to move Vin. =)

[Guest megaman]

In that case... yes. =)

 

99% of the other cities... this would be solved with 3 phone calls.

 

Time to move Vin. =)

 

LOL...no they actually move mine through pretty fast. There is a limit to what can be done to a free person in the USA. He may get beat down for a minute, but in cases like this, its pretty clear cut.

[crackaloon 15]

To be a little more clear, I do care, and I do think it's rediculous that that guy couldn't say "home defense". He should have been able to say "I'm going to shoot lots of pieces of paper and be as prepared as possible to put holes in an intruder". I also think the laws need to be changed and standardized and complied with by everyone involved. I was only pointing out that being non-standard with your average LEO is only going to hurt you. I don't think anyone wants to stand on the side of the road for 40min while their car is turned upside down for no reason. I'm more than happy to russle some feathers if there's a point to it.

[Guest megaman]

"I was only pointing out that being non-standard with your average LEO is only going to hurt you. I don't think anyone wants to stand on the side of the road for 40min while their car is turned upside down for no reason."

 

By using your rights in a correct manner, it would never even get that far...

[FFDP82 4]

To be a little more clear, I do care, and I do think it's rediculous that that guy couldn't say "home defense". He should have been able to say "I'm going to shoot lots of pieces of paper and be as prepared as possible to put holes in an intruder".

 

No, no one should have to answer anything at all. The question should never even be asked.

[PK90 3,570]

No, no one should have to answer anything at all. The question should never even be asked.

"OLD SCHOOL"

 

The old applications used to ask what your intended use was to be.

[Guest megaman]

"OLD SCHOOL"

 

The old applications used to ask what your intended use was to be.

 

 

In the near future, I hope to have all of my firearms transactions take place at a gun store, not a police station asking for permission.

[Shane45 807]

Just answer ZOMBIES, THERE COMING!!!

[mikelets456 78]

Wow, that stinks. In my area the "cop" there encouraged me to apply for as many permits as I can use in 6 months. He asked NO questions, made small talk and said "enjoy and have a great day". He has done this every time I have gone there! Sorry to hear about your experience...

[mikelets456 78]

I agree with you here. Why put a target on your back when you dont have to.

 

Is that what it has come down to? It's like dealing (kissing up) to the KGB... this is a right that "shall not be infringed". Driving on a public road, paid for with public tax dollars is different and the cop can ask what, why, where. Owning a gun is different... it is a fundamental right. it's like a cop pulling up to your house and ask why you are having drink on the back deck, why you are cooking with salt and why did you put the TV in the family room instead of the living room!!! It does not make sense and just because it is a "firearm" does not change the "fundamental right". When you, me or anyone else is QUESTIONED on why there is a NEED for a fundamental right, then something is wrong. This is stuff you see in the USSR....

[Wolfy 51]

My town is great the lady said I can apply for as many as I like because to limit me is "Denying me my rights" her quote.

[Caine 147]

My town is slow, but I've never had to give a reason for why I want permits or how many I'm getting. I applied for 6, and aside from telling me that I could only use 1 a month and that they only last 90 days, all they asked for is the typical paperwork. No appointments or talking to the detectives. Just drop off everything with the clerk and wait.. and wait... and wait...

[Redfish62 1]

Unfortunately the way I see it is it’s a privilege not a right to own a firearm in the state of New Jersey. This state does not believe in the 2^nd amendment and only issues FID cards to those they want to. When a person can be denied their right to a FID because they want to own a firearm for HD then it was a privilege not given because his rights to own were not honored by the state. When I apply for handgun permits I am not subject to all the questions and signs about 1 permit a month that others have to deal with but I would be polite and answer whatever questions were asked so I don’t become the next person to lose their privilege to own firearms. I know we all want to walk tall and carry a big stick when it comes to the 2^nd amendment and the right to own and carry firearms but in this state we have to tread lightly. Groups like New Jersey Second Amendment Society are doing the tough talking and trying to change the way New Jersey looks at the 2^nd amendment and hopefully one day it will be a right not a privilege to own and carry firearms in this state. There are so many people on this forum that are so passionate about their 2^nd amendment rights and can’t understand why some of us are a little laid back about them and for me it’s because I don’t want to be the next victim of this state’s idea of what the 2^nd amendment means. I am just thankful that I was issued my FID card and receive handgun permits whenever I apply for them but I am most thankful that New Jersey Gun Forums gives us all a place to express our opinions and asked questions that get answered by some really great people.

[Guest megaman]

Like I said in an earlier post. Change is best left to the lawyers because too many NJ gun owners are happy to eat a little oatmeal, and understand the eggs are off limits....

[ChrisJM981 924]

No, no one should have to answer anything at all. The question should never even be asked.

 

You are correct.

 

2C:58-3 f. which states: “There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.”

 

What does that mean you ask? If it is not specifically listed it cannot be asked. No added questions. No added forms. Period. "All lawful purposes" would be my answer as well.

 

There is a letter I believe from the Office of the Attorney General that explains to police departments that "One Gun a Month" is for purchases and not applying for permits. Hand them a copy and ask if you can take down their misinformed notice and replace it with OAG's letter of instruction.

 

 

Posted Today, 01:10 PM

Like I said in an earlier post. Change is best left to the lawyers because too many NJ gun owners are happy to eat a little oatmeal, and understand the eggs are off limits....

 

Lawyers don't things for free. I don't have money to pay one, but I'm more than happy to write a letter or two and make a few phone calls.

[FFDP82 4]

it’s a privilege not a right to own a firearm in the state of New Jersey.

 

As of June 28, 2010 this is no longer true. If PD's and local judges still do not want to deal with this fact, then the higher courts will gladly do it for them.

 

 

There are so many people on this forum that are so passionate about their 2nd amendment rights and can’t understand why some of us are a little laid back about them and for me it’s because I don’t want to be the next victim of this state’s idea of what the 2nd amendment means. I am just thankful that I was issued my FID card and receive handgun permits whenever I apply for them

 

You're an unfortunate example of what Megaman said.

 

too many NJ gun owners are happy to eat a little oatmeal, and understand the eggs are off limits....

 

Well said.

[Dozer 0]

The point being made in the first post was what the sign stated and the result Megaman came up with in the end.Someone in the PD posted that sign to discourage multiple gun ownership while being well informed of the law.

Personally I am sick of the whole permit process and to add my local small town PD has been pretty good compared to what i have read of others experiences.A couple small hickups with them being uninformed and pressing by myself of the law leading to the Chief making calls to get informed and was resolved.If i didn't press the issues with the pretty girl who hands out the applications i would not have had permits extended or recent multiple permits after the OGAM crap.

The problem is from what i have read some PD's want to interpret what they think is right and not take the time to fully understand the law which can be confusing if not studied.

The local PD should not be burdened with the expense or the workload of the permit process when they could be doing other work,but I believe some not all do want the involvement/discouragement in the permit process.

If someone wants to take this as bashing go right ahead,I have a few good friends in law inforcement and let them know my feelings when having various discussions and they don't seem to have a problem.

[CageFighter 236]

It's funny how i hear horror stories from some PD's. And mine has been such a great PD to work with it is kinda confusing.... So i was very surprised they were so willing to help a 24 year old get permits for a pistol, in a town where nothing really happens. However, we get a decent amount of home robberies, although 99% of them are when the home owners are away.

Now my friend, who lives a town over, which boarders Paterson, has been jumping through hoops to get his FID and permits, he still hasn't received them 3 months now. You would think they would be willing to help in high crime areas, and not so much in the low crime areas, but it seems to be the exact opposite.

 

I think I may be in HIS town. going thru the pain now...wtf!

[KpdPipes 388]

In the near future, I hope to have all of my firearms transactions take place at a gun store, not a police station asking for permission.

 

Not to be Crass Mega..but "Hope in one hand, and Crap in the other...see which one fills up first" YES we will win this in court eventually, and NJ will follow the model of DC and Chicago by implementing changes so slowly that it will take more lawsuits before anything is done... And before someone brings up the cost..THEY DONT CARE BECAUSE IT ISN'T THEIR MONEY. A CONSERVATIVE estimate is a Decade before we see any REAL changes to the FPID/P2P situation here. frankly I see Much more of a chance to seeing CCW at a reasonable cost (after the 1932 USC suit if the proposed law passes) than I do your probablility of your Hope. Dont mean to be an a**...but Reality is Reality, and we are a VERY small Minority.

[Old School 611]

Open warning, any open rage or disrespectful remarks towards any LEO, on the forum or not... will be a swift permanent ban. They are fellow people who put their lives on the line to protect your right to a pity party, the least you can do is respect them. Anyone who is not ok with that, is not welcome here, nor a person with whom I would want to be associated.

 

 

Knowing you are a reasonable person I'm not too concerned about this statement. But,it sounds harsh and subject to alot of interpretation. All professions are suject to critisism from time to time. No "sacred cows" please!

Just my $.02

[KpdPipes 388]

The point being made in the first post was what the sign stated and the result Megaman came up with in the end.Someone in the PD posted that sign to discourage multiple gun ownership while being well informed of the law.

Personally I am sick of the whole permit process and to add my local small town PD has been pretty good compared to what i have read of others experiences.A couple small hickups with them being uninformed and pressing by myself of the law leading to the Chief making calls to get informed and was resolved.If i didn't press the issues with the pretty girl who hands out the applications i would not have had permits extended or recent multiple permits after the OGAM crap.

The problem is from what i have read some PD's want to interpret what they think is right and not take the time to fully understand the law which can be confusing if not studied.

The local PD should not be burdened with the expense or the workload of the permit process when they could be doing other work,but I believe some not all do want the involvement/discouragement in the permit process.

If someone wants to take this as bashing go right ahead,I have a few good friends in law inforcement and let them know my feelings when having various discussions and they don't seem to have a problem.

I dont think ANYONE, including Myself or PK-90 will disagree that there are Chiefs in this state who use the pemit Process to institute their own Gun Control Measures. However, even the Chiefs who DO support the RKBA have had their hands toed in recent years by rule changes requiring background checks for things that NEVER needed them in the past, couple that with the Frenzy over the OGAM, Obama's Election and the sunsequent fears, and the system was overwhelmed. NOW they take the ability to Print locally away from departments (Conveniently adding more fees...and delays in waiting for Appointments at Sagem offices). This is BULLSNOT When I make an arrest and print someone, I have an answer back from AFIS as to Identity and Criminal History in NO more than 25 Minutes. Considering that the FBI fingerprint AFIS database is tied in with NJSP's, it is Ludicrous to have to wait for Printed cards to be mailed out, or to try and say it takes weeks to get that aspect back.

 

For the Record, telling the truth is Not "Bashing". The problem is that we have had a Succession of AG's who are Anti-gun and WILL NOT DO THEIR JOBS and mandate the County Prosecutors do THEIR Jobs to Mandate the CHIEFs do THEIRS, or, Going directly through the NJSP FIU to Lean on the Municipalities to follow the rules to the letter. The municipalities are given free reign to do as they wish, with no oversight until someone makes an issue out of it. My original Chief, had a signature stamp made up, and the Detective who did the permits had his authority to stamp and issue as SOON as the paperwork came back. NEVER more than 30 days, and usually under 2 weeks fr initials, and NEXT DAY for P2P's, unless there was an actual issue with the References or background. The Next one signed them himself..but ONLY on the 15th of the month, so if your paperwork came back on the 16th, you were screwed until the calendar rolled around. The Next one after that, instituted a rule that the Detective could only send the paperwork out once he had a certain number of applications, and so on and so forth. My Current Chief signs them as soon as it comes in, and that is just ONE department over 23 years. Luckily, the "Bad" ones were all in that office for a year or two. Until we get someone on the state level that has the Willingness to hold the Municipalities accountable to Some SET standard, nothing is going to change.

[Guest megaman]

Not to be Crass Mega..but "Hope in one hand, and Crap in the other...see which one fills up first" YES we will win this in court eventually, and NJ will follow the model of DC and Chicago by implementing changes so slowly that it will take more lawsuits before anything is done... And before someone brings up the cost..THEY DONT CARE BECAUSE IT ISN'T THEIR MONEY. A CONSERVATIVE estimate is a Decade before we see any REAL changes to the FPID/P2P situation here. frankly I see Much more of a chance to seeing CCW at a reasonable cost (after the 1932 USC suit if the proposed law passes) than I do your probablility of your Hope. Dont mean to be an a**...but Reality is Reality, and we are a VERY small Minority.

 

 

Keep in mind Pipes, I dont disagree. But its time. I am not having it anymore. Its time for us to move this train forward and break the 'fiefdom' mentality in NJ. "You poor slob, you serf, why would YOOOU need a gun?!??! HAHAHAAHAAHAH...".." pppplease sire...."

Ive had enough and have resources to commit. Im going for it. Its not legal. Its got to stop.

[mikelets456 78]

Unfortunately the way I see it is it’s a privilege not a right to own a firearm in the state of New Jersey. This state does not believe in the 2^nd amendment and only issues FID cards to those they want to. When a person can be denied their right to a FID because they want to own a firearm for HD then it was a privilege not given because his rights to own were not honored by the state. When I apply for handgun permits I am not subject to all the questions and signs about 1 permit a month that others have to deal with but I would be polite and answer whatever questions were asked so I don’t become the next person to lose their privilege to own firearms. I know we all want to walk tall and carry a big stick when it comes to the 2^nd amendment and the right to own and carry firearms but in this state we have to tread lightly. Groups like New Jersey Second Amendment Society are doing the tough talking and trying to change the way New Jersey looks at the 2^nd amendment and hopefully one day it will be a right not a privilege to own and carry firearms in this state. There are so many people on this forum that are so passionate about their 2^nd amendment rights and can’t understand why some of us are a little laid back about them and for me it’s because I don’t want to be the next victim of this state’s idea of what the 2^nd amendment means. I am just thankful that I was issued my FID card and receive handgun permits whenever I apply for them but I am most thankful that New Jersey Gun Forums gives us all a place to express our opinions and asked questions that get answered by some really great people.

 

Wow... what if the founders took that laid back attitude? We are discussing the "right to keep and bear arms...that shall not be infringed". You want to simply leave that to the courts and sit back in your recliner while they "work it out"? Do you think the HCR bill was stalled because of the Republicans? No... it was stalled because millions and millions of people got out and VOICED their opinions, sent letters and made calls. Pressure, vote, pressure, vote... We are passionate about the 2nd amendment because we know the consequences of losing it... and history has proved time after time the end result is NOT pretty. I, along with others, do not take LOSING freedom lightly, nor will I rely on a left wing lawyer to "protect" this RIGHT. We are at a critical point in this country and preserving Inalienable (God given) rights. If you want to give your God given rights over to the control of Man or Government, then be prepared for those Rights to be taken away. Is that what you are saying? is that what you want?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

My friends PD has been telling him that they are still waiting for the state police and FBI criminal History report to come back, which in my opinion is total BS... mine was sent to my PD in 3 weeks, hes been waiting months. Is there any way to check if the reports have been completed and cleared and sent to the local PD? I'm under the impression they have everything they need, but there just letting the paper work sit there. He's friends with the sgt at the PD, but apparently had an unpleasant run in with the Lt. once which is why we think there giving him the cold shoulder. Before he takes an legal action he wants to make sure they can't pull the were still waiting for the reports to come back card. When he called the sgt. up about what was actually happening, he said don't annoy the Lt. and that was it. Nothing about whether or not the Lt. was actually telling it how it was.

The issue is really that they havnt even processed the initial application, because non of his references have even been contacted yet. Where as my references were contacted a week after my application was handed in, i hadnt even been fingerprinted yet.

[Bob B 103]

Bottom Line:

If your permits are taking too long, or your PD is otherwise violating the law with regard to permit applications:

Call the Chief of Police and state your case.

If that doesn't work, call the NJSP Firearms Investigation Unit.

If that doesn't work, go to the County Prosecutor and ask for an investigation and ask if charges can be filed for a violation of the applicable 2C: statute.

 

Be courteous, be professional, be firm.

 

If you're not willing to do that, then expect it to continue.

 

Yes, it is scary to call your Chief of Police. Do it anyway.

[tommy3rd 132]

Bottom Line:

Be courteous, be professional, be firm.

Yes, it is scary to call your Chief of Police. Do it anyway.

One shouldn't be scared of the police chief or any other LEO if they're not doing anything wrong. They are all human and live life just like the rest of us. I think part of the problem is some folks just don't have people skills. Just because the constitution says it's their right, they think they can treat others like crap and forget the fact that these people are just doing their jobs.

[stever 16]

FFDP82 wrote: snipped

 

Maybe I will buy the pistol, take it home, then chop it into teeny tiny little itsy bitsy pieces with an angle grinder, melt it all down and make a little metal brick to use as a paperweight? Who knows? None of his business.

 

 

________________________________________________________________________________

 

Can you legally do that to firearm that a NJ PD has a record of? I had a cop ask me why I wanted a purchase permit about 20 years ago..I told him about CJR&P and he joined..you never know..

 

Stever

[FFDP82 4]

FFDP82 wrote: snipped

 

Maybe I will buy the pistol, take it home, then chop it into teeny tiny little itsy bitsy pieces with an angle grinder, melt it all down and make a little metal brick to use as a paperweight? Who knows? None of his business.

 

 

________________________________________________________________________________

 

Can you legally do that to firearm that a NJ PD has a record of? I had a cop ask me why I wanted a purchase permit about 20 years ago..I told him about CJR&P and he joined..you never know..

 

Stever

 

Yes, there is nothing wrong with obliterating a firearm that you own if you want to, as far as I can tell. Why would it be illegal to destroy your own possessions? I could go break my xbox, or my computer, or my nightstand. Not that I would But why the hell couldn't I if I wanted to? And what's your cop friend joining CJRPC have to do with anything?

 

Unless there is something in state law I am not aware of?