Johnnydammit 1 Posted January 24, 2011 The public school system is for making our kids wear uniforms if they don't they will be sent home. Is anyone else having this problem? Isn't there any constitutional law about individualality that they are infringing upon? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted January 24, 2011 I don't see what your problem is. Kids are being teased/judged and potentially harmed because of their looks and clothing. If it's regulated, that's one more thing you don't have to worry about. There's no laws being infringed upon. You can't even say it stifles freedom of expression or individualism, as there are plenty of ways to still do your own thing.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted January 24, 2011 The public school system is for making our kids wear uniforms if they don't they will be sent home. Is anyone else having this problem? Isn't there any constitutional law about individualality that they are infringing upon? i think it's a good idea. no more kids pickin' on other kids because of their clothes. No more kids wanting $100 pairs of sneakers for school. uniformity can be a good thing. Think army, police academy and other public and private schools that require uniforms. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greatgunstatenj 32 Posted January 24, 2011 I don't see what your problem is. Kids are being teased/judged and potentially harmed because of their looks and clothing. If it's regulated, that's one more thing you don't have to worry about. There's no laws being infringed upon. You can't even say it stifles freedom of expression or individualism, as there are plenty of ways to still do your own thing.. I went to private school that required everyone to be in uniform. Uniforms do nothing to curb bullying and teasing. If not clothes, the bullies will just find something else. Forget the uniforms and spend the money on boxing lessons for the little one! ha 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted January 24, 2011 I don't see what your problem is. Kids are being teased/judged and potentially harmed because of their looks and clothing. If it's regulated, that's one more thing you don't have to worry about. There's no laws being infringed upon. You can't even say it stifles freedom of expression or individualism, as there are plenty of ways to still do your own thing.. yeah one less thing to worry about.. kind of like the government controls our money so we can retire (social security)... or maybe like the new health care push.. to mandate it for all.. "one less thing to worry about" is a poor excuse to blindly conform IMO.. everyone doing the same thing.. the same way.. at the same time.. while looking the same.. is not what America is about IMO.. I understand the intent.. but as another poster pointed out.. kids are mean.. they will simply pick on them for something else.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MedicYeti 96 Posted January 24, 2011 This has been fought and lost in a couple districts around the country. Kids will still pick on kids, removing the clothing they wear at school is about as effective as magazine capacity laws. Kids still wan the clothes to fit in and be cool for non school related activities, opening the door for picking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted January 24, 2011 I too agree that uniforms will do nothing to stop kids from being picked on. There will always be "cool" kids and "weird" kids, it's just how kids work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeFan 49 Posted January 24, 2011 Where I grew up, all schools (public and private) required students to wear uniforms. Never was an issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoR 4 Posted January 24, 2011 I went to a private school that required everyone to be in uniform. Uniforms do nothing to curb bullying and teasing. If not clothes, the bullies will just find something else. Forget the uniforms and spend the money on boxing lessons for the little one! ha I agree with you on the first and second part - it's not going to curb bullying and kids should roughen up but you actually spend less money on a uniform then you would on regular clothes. They had this exact same debate on NJ101.5 a few months ago and moms who called in generally welcomed uniforms because they didn't have to think anymore about what they're going to give their kids to wear and didn't have to spend ridiculous amounts of money on clothes. The later was especially true for girls. I wouldn't mind if my kids wore uniforms. My son can't dress for sh** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted January 24, 2011 I know kids will be kids and tease/bully for other things. There still are some potential benefits to this. Here's a couple that I can think of right at the top of my head... 1: Price of clothing - It generally costs less for school uniforms, rather than having to buy whatever's popular (and therefore expensive). 2: General decency/propriety - Less of a chance of girls being seen as too sexy/slutty/trampy/etc, no pants down showing boxers, etc. I can also see this potentially affecting gangs and violence in schools. No more identifying with gangs by wearing colors... You'll be able to tell who belongs at the school and who does not, as well.. Some of this is my opinion and is probably a bit naive, but still, I can see the potential benefits of uniforms. Vlad - it's not a government taking over type of thing either. It's for a general sense of safety and decency. Would you want your 12 year old daughter dressing up like a prostitot because of peer/social pressure, or would you rather she wear a uniform? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted January 24, 2011 I agree with you on the first and second part - it's not going to curb bullying and kids should roughen up but you actually spend less money on a uniform then you would on regular clothes. They had this exact same debate on NJ101.5 a few months ago and moms who called in generally welcomed uniforms because they didn't have to think anymore about what they're going to give their kids to wear and didn't have to spend ridiculous amounts of money on clothes. The later was especially true for girls. I wouldn't mind if my kids wore uniforms. My son can't dress for sh** how are uniforms cheaper? do your kids go to the mall in their school uniform? do they go to the boardwalk with their friends in that uniform? unlikely.. so while everyone says uniforms are cheaper.. I will disagree.. because now you are buying them two wardrobes.. one for school and one for play.. at least with no uniforms what you send your kid to school in is likely what he is wearing after school and on the weekends.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bry@n 195 Posted January 24, 2011 When I was younger, sneakers and lee jeans were serious statements. You would get free stuff with the lee jeans patch from V.I.M. Puma's, shell cup addidas and later jordans were a big deal. None of these stopped me from fighting or anything else. While I agree that it would make everyone look the same and that would be a bad thing, it might infringe upon a kids right to wear what they want. I had a habit of drawing on my jeans when I was 8. I would get segregated as a result in any kind of assemblies. That pissed me off and I was a damn the man kinda kid from then on. Tough choice for me. My opinion sways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoR 4 Posted January 24, 2011 how are uniforms cheaper? do your kids go to the mall in their school uniform? do they go to the boardwalk with their friends in that uniform? unlikely.. so while everyone says uniforms are cheaper.. I will disagree.. because now you are buying them two wardrobes.. one for school and one for play.. at least with no uniforms what you send your kid to school in is likely what he is wearing after school and on the weekends.. I guess it all depends on your lifestyle. I.e. I spend 8-10 hours at work every day and have dedicated work clothes that I almost never wear outside work. Even though it's a desk job my work clothes get ruined fairly quickly, usually between one and two years (depending on what material I wear). Colors fade, elbows wear out, shoes wear out, food stains etc. etc. etc. My leisure clothes on the other hand go for years especially since I normally wear different type of material which is more durable. At home I don't have a dress code either and I don't care what somebody things about me. If they think I'm a beggar, even better. Now if I was to wear a uniform at work, it would be significantly cheaper because I wouldn't have to wear the stuff I wear. And it's the same with kids. If you send your kids to school in the same stuff every day, then you surely are saving but I doubt you do that. Most, especially girls wear something different every day and when it's not fashionable anymore, they want to change it. No kid wants to feel an outsider and most of them want what their friends have. If they wore a uniform, you could then get away with buying as few as just two of them. At home my kids wear cheap Walmart and similar junk or stuff that was handed down to us by our friends (second hand stuff). First, I can't be constantly hoovering over them and warning them to watch their clothes and second, kids grow and buying expensive stuff isn't worth it. I'm sure uniforms in schools would definitely help me keep expenditure down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vjf915 456 Posted January 24, 2011 I don't think that it could be cheaper or more expensive, I think the cost would more or less offset. The more clothes you have, the longer it takes for them to wear out, the longer you can go without replacing them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted January 24, 2011 There are two reason i can think of for implementing uniforms. the first being what ever one else said is to create a uniformly dressed student body. The second would be to get rid of the skanky clothing kids wear. I've been working in schools for the past year, and holy damn those kids dress like there on a street corner. The schools get a lot of heat from parents because they discipline students who dress inappropriately and im guessing there getting really sick of it. I wore a uniform for school until i went to college. I can honestly say, no one got picked on for what they wore. And the girls were still trying hike up there skirts. Yeah kids will always be picked on for one reason or another, but giving them one less reason to pick on a kid is a plus in my book. The thing that people seem to overlook is that the kids are in school to learn, nothing more nothing less. There not there to pronounce there unique ability to dress. The schools are not taking away from a students personality or overall uniqueness by putting them into a uniform. If a student has to be dressed a certain way to act a certain way then i would say priorities need changing. Do you want your son looking at some skanky dressed girl all day instead of paying attention to his school work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted January 24, 2011 The schools get a lot of heat from parents because they discipline students who dress inappropriately and im guessing there getting really sick of it. Agreed. Anything we can do that can make it easier for teachers and staff to actually TEACH should be done. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteF 1,044 Posted January 24, 2011 I think everyone here has not asked the important NJ question. I wonder how much the "suggested" uniform supplier donated to the re-election campaign of the school board? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coldsolderjoint 84 Posted January 24, 2011 I kind of wished we had a uniform when i was in school. I also liked the jobs where i wore a uniform better than now.. i never have any clean clothes :-P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernYankee 94 Posted January 24, 2011 I know kids will be kids and tease/bully for other things. There still are some potential benefits to this. Here's a couple that I can think of right at the top of my head... 1: Price of clothing - It generally costs less for school uniforms, rather than having to buy whatever's popular (and therefore expensive). 2: General decency/propriety - Less of a chance of girls being seen as too sexy/slutty/trampy/etc, no pants down showing boxers, etc. I can also see this potentially affecting gangs and violence in schools. No more identifying with gangs by wearing colors... You'll be able to tell who belongs at the school and who does not, as well.. Some of this is my opinion and is probably a bit naive, but still, I can see the potential benefits of uniforms. Vlad - it's not a government taking over type of thing either. It's for a general sense of safety and decency. Would you want your 12 year old daughter dressing up like a prostitot because of peer/social pressure, or would you rather she wear a uniform? I think it should be up to the parents to make sure there kids don't dress like Prostitutes. Many things have been passed in this country in the name of "Safety and Decency" because people felt it was easier to let someone else regulate it instead of taking the time and effort to take care of it themselves. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted January 24, 2011 I think it should be up to the parents to make sure there kids don't dress like Prostitutes. Many things have been passed in this country in the name of "Safety and Decency" because people felt it was easier to let someone else regulate it instead of taking the time and effort to take care of it themselves. Which is exactly why they are pushing for this. The people who feel it is easier to let other people do all the work are the parents, and then they get pissed when the school calls home and says hey your daughter is dressed like a slut come get her. And then they start law suits based on harassment charges and etc. It's really disgusting. Teachers/Schools get sued all the time over following procedure and policies. If they don't work then you have to try a different strategy. Leaving it up to the parents is probably a sure way to achieve nothing. Not that everyone is a bad parent, but kids will always be deviant and do what they want unless they know better then. Maybe i just live in a place where parents think its cool to have a 12yr old who dresses like there 25, but when your actually 25 and see this it's quite disturbing. They want there kids to be popular just as much as the kids themselves. I mean when your that young, guess who's buying the clothing? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted January 24, 2011 I think it should be up to the parents to make sure there kids don't dress like Prostitutes. Many things have been passed in this country in the name of "Safety and Decency" because people felt it was easier to let someone else regulate it instead of taking the time and effort to take care of it themselves. I agree with you 100%, but too many parents these days don't actually parent.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewhitewolf 8 Posted January 24, 2011 I attended public school. I was opposed then to the idea of requiring school uniforms, as I was for years after I graduated. However, in recent years I have changed my opinion on the subject. First, I'll say that I was never fashionable. Growing up in a single parent home, I had to wear only what my mother could afford (basically stuff from Kmart or Jamesway), or wear old clothes from my older cousins. Yes, I got picked on for wearing oversized jeans and for wearing hooded sweatshirts (considered the mark of white trash, at least at my school). However, I was picked on for a lot of other things too (such as the OCD I suffered from before I got treatment for it as an adult). I've since considered a few things: first, I have friends now that have gone to private school, and therefore wore uniforms. Each of them did better in school and is better off generally than I am. Not saying that that's always the case, but it's just an observation. Second, I have read some reports of public schools across the country that started requiring uniforms; these schools reported a significant drop in disciplinary issues since the uniform requirement, and they also reported higher academic achievements among students and an increase in extra-curricular activities. Third, as far as the argument about uniforms stifling creativity or infringing on first amendment expression, I heard on NJ 101.5 that people like Paul McCartney wore uniforms to school, yet still grew up to be creative, and successful. While I don't like the idea of thinking about what if my school required uniforms, I can't help but think that I might have done better and not held on to bitterness for so long had my school required uniforms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jermz1987 243 Posted January 24, 2011 I would have loved to have uniforms when I went to High School. Some kids spend too much time on outfits and making sure the shirt they are putting on hasn't been worn in the past year. lol I would have loved to not worry about cloths. lol, but that's just me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnnydammit 1 Posted January 24, 2011 I guess it started with some kids wearing clothing that probably said something on it that offended someone. Lke maybe a Slayer concert shirt or a shirt that said something involving sex on it. Some people are just too controling for me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted January 24, 2011 I wore an Air Force uniform 1 day per week in High School... Easiest day of the week to get ready, and I would have preferred to have a uniform for the other 4 days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted January 24, 2011 I guess it started with some kids wearing clothing that probably said something on it that offended someone. Lke maybe a Slayer concert shirt or a shirt that said something involving sex on it. Some people are just too controling for me! Sooo.. if your kid came home cursing and spewing profanity because he read it on someones shirt you wouldnt be opposed to that? Students have a right to learn in a non-offensive environment. And besides, let not kid ourselves, a couple kids didnt enter a school wearing a shirt that said sex, or a slayer shirt, and the idea that every one should wear a uniform was born. The problem is... its been an ongoing issue. if you want to wear offensive clothing then be home schooled where no one will care if you learn in your underwear. As for the rest of the world, we owe it to the students to have a place they can learn with out distraction. Throw on what ever you want when u get home. I've seen some pretty dumb shirts on kids that i dont find offensive, but then again i dont really care, i can't say the same for many other people. There seems to be many different aspects for implementing uniforms. If the purposed of the school is to educate, then its focus should be on that, if in anyway a uniform improved the overall quality of an educational institute, then i would say its very piss poor to not at least juggle the idea. This is not about controlling anyone, its about getting rid of superficial beliefs surrounding the way we dress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbk 188 Posted January 25, 2011 The idea that uniforms would stop creative thinking in children, to me, is fallacious. The reason for that is because the targeted age groups (children in this case) who wear whatever clothes they want only continue to be more "slaves of the system" then those required to wear uniforms. What do I mean by that? Post-WWII, the middle class in America grew exponentially. GIs coming back home, getting jobs/education, baby boomers, etc. While the achievement of the US that thrust them into a super power role was being able to harness nuclear energy; the end reached to sustain that role would be the creation of an economy so rooted in the middle class. So, by society saying that individuality is the key to creative [success] (pick your wording); do they mean this or is it a means of continuing the trend (even if that trend evolves-- think of how iconic fashion trends have changed since the 50s)... which of course is a means of control (albeit not totalitarian). Foucault's theories of biopower is an interesting perspective. Another being the concept of modernity, and its relatively negative effects on the global scene (when applied). At the end, are uniforms are good or bad thing? I don't think the concept of uniforms is the issue. With that said, the 800lb gorilla in the room, that being the opposing viewpoint, is something a lot of people would rather not discuss or contemplate I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vozella 2 Posted January 25, 2011 I think it's good that these kids are getting a little bit of "do what you are told" and learn that there are rules to follow whether you like it or not! Somewhere along the line, kids were allowed to decide what was best foe them. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenw 293 Posted January 25, 2011 Requiring uniforms and believing they will change behavior is false reasoning. You can't target a thing, and hope it changes human nature or aberrant behavior. That's the reasoning the anti gun zealots use to spread their absurd agendas. Vilifying an object (clothes, guns) has virtually no effect on behavior. With or without uniforms, the class slut will still suck dick, the bully will still terrorize the weak, and the different social cliques will still shun each other. Uniforms aren't a substitute for a code of behavior, and that requires good parenting and an attentive and dedicated educational system. Making everyone wear the same clothes isn't going to make everyone behave the same, no matter how hard the school administrators wish they will. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recon Racoon 49 Posted January 25, 2011 I can tell you uniforms are not cheaper, and in some cases more expensive than just clothing you wear everyday. With that said, it does make for an easier learning environment to a point. But since you can only change the clothes and not the behavior of a person, there were still fights every other day, there was still sexual harassment, and there were still pre-teen pregnancies. No matter how you argue over whether its a good idea or not, its going to happen. And really it isn't that big of a deal. I'd rather have uniforms and be in a better schooling environment than have some d-bag start in on me because I wore a Black Sabbath concert shirt instead of Abercrombie & Fitch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites