News regarding PA CCW reciprocity

[ryan_j 0]

You say that now. Wait until you actually drive 75 miles each way and then talk. I drive on average 65 each way and fr the last few months it's been about 119 each way. It's brutal and my commute is somewhere in the 2:45 on the best day to 3 hours each way on the worst.

 

At 65 it was around 1:15

 

I live in Sussex County. I work in NYC. Yes, it's a hike. But is it worth it?  To me it is. 

 

It does get tiring but I don't think I could live in the other parts of NJ. I lived in Wayne and where I live now is much better.  

[DeerSlayer 241]

I live in Sussex County. I work in NYC. Yes, it's a hike. But is it worth it? To me it is.

 

It does get tiring but I don't think I could live in the other parts of NJ. I lived in Wayne and where I live now is much better.

^^^^Ditto, I would never go back to Wayne or Clifton after living here in Sussex county either. And I lived in a nice area of Wayne.

[quikz 34]

And this is precisely why I just renewed my NH Permit and still have my FL CCW. Friends have asked me to get a Utah cause it's 'better' or whatever. I had the foresight to see the wisdom to obtain multi-permits years ago. But not because im 'smart'. But w 'guns', "Past restrictions DOES and CAN indicate future result." Which is total opposite rule as applied to the Stock Market or Finance. So sad to say, was one of those 'no-brainer' situations.

 

The only catch is, I have NJ 'restricted' "carry" permit which is honoured by NH for Non-Res (FOR NOW). I go up there for advanced pistol training, etc...

 

I'm guessing this super radical lib of an AG in PA (OF ALL PLACES). Will prolly keep the NH agreement FOR NOW. As NH's new renewal rules are ALOT tighter than before.

 

You know ive been sayin this for AWHILE. Those of you who think PA is some kinda 'Mecca' when it comes to 'guns', better think HARD and LONG, AGAIN.

 

To the rest of the folks in NJ, I am truly truly sorry and saddened that your UT Permits were torn from you by liberal fiat and decree. Seems like NJ residents are the worst beat down folks in the United States as far as the US Bill of Rights. And prolly a bunch of other things too. Damn im so sorry my dear folks....

 

Seems the new AG in PA is in Bloombergs lap or lapdog. One or the other i suppose.

[mipafox 438]

 

As we lament the worthlessness of our Utah permits, I wonder what other types of gun possession are permitted in PA to NJ residents with UT documents:

 

1) bringing a handgun to a friend's house and shooting in his back yard

2) carrying a loaded gun in the passenger compartment of a car

3) bringing a rife to a friend's house for shooting in his back yard

4) Is PA considered an exempt location for purposes of transporting a handgun/long gun as per federal rules?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

I'm not sure I understand those questions. Possession of firearms do not require excuses in PA like in Jersey. It's always legal unless otherwise specified.

 

Places you are not allowed to have firearms in PA are buildings with courts (they must provide you a gun locker), detention facilities, and public schools (maybe maybe not, nobody has been successfully prosecuted). "Firearms" (handguns and small NFA weapons generally) require a LTCF or reciprocal license to conceal outside your place of abode, and require a license from any state to carry in a vehicle. All types of firearms in public in Philly.

 

 

Yeah come on guys, don't spread misinformation... PA statute says ANY permit issued by the US or any state can be used for vehicle carry...

 

 

That's interesting, so I wonder if your NJ FID and pink copy of the permit to purchase will work? 

Here's an easy way to find out without going to jail. Try to use it to get a PA non-resident LTCF. The answer is NO.

[wooly bugger 1]

 
Here's an easy way to find out without going to jail. Try to use it to get a PA non-resident LTCF. The answer is NO.

 

To get a non-resident LTCF, don't you need a CCW from your home state? The text of the law says ANY state.

 

The lack of consensus on this forum is enough for me not to vehicle carry with a Utah non-res CCW. If we are having trouble agreeing, it's guaranteed that so will most cops and this may lead to unnecessary arrests.

 

PA is dead to me until I get a TX CHL, which I'll do next time business takes me there. Which brings me to the question I posed in another thread. How much time does Kane have in office to cancel TX? I'd hate to go through the hassle just to have it cancelled.

[mipafox 438]

 

To get a non-resident LTCF, don't you need a CCW from your home state?

 

That was the point.

 

The text of the law says ANY state.

An NJ FPID and pink copy of a pistol purchase license is not a CCW from any state, is it? No. Just as it will not allow you to get a PA LTCF, it will not allow you to drive around with a handgun in your car in PA.

[ryan_j 0]

From the PA AG:

 

Pennsylvania has received notification from Utah officials that their law has changed and no longer complies with Pennsylvania law. Utah is now a Category 4 state. Holders of Pennsylvania and Utah permits will no longer be able to have their permits honored in each other's states. Likewise, individuals from other states holding Utah permits will not have their permits honored in Pennsylvania. Pa. permit holders may still apply for a non-resident permit for use in the state of Utah. The reason for this change was a recent determination that Utah's relevant statutory provisions are no longer compatible with Pennsylvania law. Pa. law requires that the statutes be substantially similar in order for the Attorney General to grant reciprocity. Finally, please know that Utah and Pennsylvania are currently negotiating a formal reciprocity agreement (Category 1) that when agreed to would permit residents of Pa. and Utah to have their permits recognized in each other's states.

[ryan_j 0]

This most certainly means that non resident Utah reciprocity is completely DEAD.

[T Bill 649]

Texas is next.  Kane will eliminate all non-res CCW in PA.  Hell she would eliminate LTCF in PA if she could.  Term end January 2017. Look for her to run against Toomey for US Senate in 2016.

[ryan_j 0]

Guys, the only way to fix this is to fix NJ. 

 

Until people are willing to do this, you're wasting your time chasing after PA changing its laws.

 

Our AG can make NJ a shall-issue state overnight. You heard me right.

 

All the AG has to do is say that in light of the Heller and McDonald decisions, and in light of the Peruta decision in the 9th circuit, "self defense" is a valid justifiable need. Our definition of "justifiable need" is pre-Heller. 

 

And of course I fully expect NJ gun owners to say, "you're wasting your time!" Well YOU are wasting your time chasing after PA. It's their state, their laws, their voters and their AG. Only they can fix it, not us. 

[67gtonut 847]

Guys, the only way to fix this is to fix NJ. 

 

Until people are willing to do this, you're wasting your time chasing after PA changing its laws.

 

Our AG can make NJ a shall-issue state overnight. You heard me right.

 

All the AG has to do is say that in light of the Heller and McDonald decisions, and in light of the Peruta decision in the 9th circuit, "self defense" is a valid justifiable need. Our definition of "justifiable need" is pre-Heller. 

 

And of course I fully expect NJ gun owners to say, "you're wasting your time!" Well YOU are wasting your time chasing after PA. It's their state, their laws, their voters and their AG. Only they can fix it, not us. 

 

....... never going to happen.....  and changing NJ, not going to happen.....

 

Need to refocus on a National Level.....  Our best bet is National Reciprocity .......  this would force the handful of Anti States to do something, until then, expect to fight  just to keep what we already  have at a state level....  

[ryan_j 0]

....... never going to happen.....  and changing NJ, not going to happen.....

 

Need to refocus on a National Level.....  Our best bet is National Reciprocity .......  this would force the handful of Anti States to do something, until then, expect to fight  just to keep what we already  have at a state level....  

 

Why is it "never" going to happen?

 

"Never" is a pretty strong word. People say it would "never" happen in Illinois/Chicago either. They had an outright ban, after all. California too, now they are falling all over themselves to try to figure out how to issue permits. 

 

But why is it "never" going to happen? I thought we had ONE MILLION gun owners? Where are they? 

[67gtonut 847]

Ill. was No Issue.....   Seems like it would be related, but not really.....  Being May Issue..... we are screwed.....

 

1 million gun owners.... LOL....     a good portion dont care enough, and believe it or not, there are plenty of Liberal gun owners.....  so dont count on enough to make a difference ....

[ryan_j 0]

I think it's a chicken and egg thing. Most people think it's lost so they don't even bother to fight. 

[njpilot 671]

 

 

 

The lack of consensus on this forum is enough for me not to vehicle carry with a Utah non-res CCW. If we are having trouble agreeing, it's guaranteed that so will most cops and this may lead to unnecessary arrests.

 

There is no lack of consensus.

 

Vehicle carry is legal in PA with any CCW.

[boo 6]

There is no lack of consensus.

 

Vehicle carry is legal in PA with any CCW.

 

But does it have to be to-from a range etc, or can I drive around anywhere?

[M1152 713]

Guys, the only way to fix this is to fix NJ. 

 

Until people are willing to do this, you're wasting your time chasing after PA changing its laws.

 

Our AG can make NJ a shall-issue state overnight. You heard me right.

 

All the AG has to do is say that in light of the Heller and McDonald decisions, and in light of the Peruta decision in the 9th circuit, "self defense" is a valid justifiable need. Our definition of "justifiable need" is pre-Heller. 

 

And of course I fully expect NJ gun owners to say, "you're wasting your time!" Well YOU are wasting your time chasing after PA. It's their state, their laws, their voters and their AG. Only they can fix it, not us. 

You are exactly right, the whole non-resident permit thing is just and end-around and NJ is the root cause of the problem, not PA and not Kane. If we could obtain a NJ permit PA would have gladly given us a non-resident permit but how many people would have even perused obtaining a non-res permits (except travelers) if they could have received a NJ permit,  probably very few.

[ryan_j 0]

Most people do not even apply for a NJ permit, assuming they will be denied and will have to check off that dreaded "were you ever denied" box. 

 

I think if lots of people applied all at once it would at least force the powers that be to take notice. 

[magnawing 5]

I think if lots of people applied all at once it would at least force the powers that be to take notice. 

 

I think you're right...however, less than 30% of registered voters take the time out to exercise that right because "my guy will lose anyway", why would they bother to fill out and submit a form because "It'll just get denied".  

 

If we could overcome this persistent defeatist attitude that permeates throughout the state, we might be able to actually make a difference.

[njpilot 671]

But does it have to be to-from a range etc, or can I drive around anywhere?

The to-from range thing is if you do not have a CCW.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

Primaries are less than a month away (June 3rd).  Deadline to register to vote was yesterday.

 

NJ U.S. Senate Primary

NJ U.S. Congressional Primary

[ryan_j 0]

We have the Pantano case being argued in the NJSC soon. I'm SURE they are going to pull the "90+% of permits are approved" bull. 

 

And in reality they aren't lying. People don't apply, only those who know they have a sure shot. 

 

Even if NJSC turns us down, it will be important for the appeal to the US Supreme Court to show that NJ is playing a game with the numbers. 

[springfieldxds 0]

This most certainly means that non resident Utah reciprocity is completely DEAD.

 that when agreed to would permit RESIDENTS of Pa. and Utah to have their permits recognized in each other's states.

 

im guessing you're referring to this part of the text  

[springfieldxds 0]

i wonder why kane is trying to get non res permits not recognized in PA, it serves no true purpose, we can still vehicle carry with our Utah permits and then OC when out of the car

 

maybe its just to keep people from carrying in Philly though we can still vehicle carry in Philly 

[mipafox 438]

But does it have to be to-from a range etc, or can I drive around anywhere?

Anywhere.

 

I have OC almost exclusively in PA for 6 years. I have had dozens dozens of cops notice my firearm, had cops see me get into and out of my car. Many have watched me and some have gone about their business. None have ever said a word to me or asked to see my LTCF. The likely know better, as they have all been trained to leave us alone (except Philly).

 

That being said, I suggest you print out §6106, highlight number (11), and keep it in your car near your license/insurance/registration. If you are pulled over and disclose you are carrying or are discovered I am assuming that §6106(b)11 is an item that doesn't come up much. I would show it to the cop as it might save a trip to the station.

 

http://www.acslpa.org/html/pa_uniform_firearms_act.html

 

§6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

 

(a) Offense defined.--

 

* (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

* (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

*

 

* (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

 

* (1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.

* (2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.

* (3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.

* (4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

* (5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.

* (6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.

* (7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.

* (8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

* (9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.

* (10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.

* (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

* (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.

* (13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

* (14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).

* (15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:

* (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.

* (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

* (16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).

 

Note: The link above is the first of two webpages, not the entire UFA.

[mipafox 438]

i wonder why kane is trying to get non res permits not recognized in PA, it serves no true purpose, we can still vehicle carry with our Utah permits and then OC when out of the car

 

maybe its just to keep people from carrying in Philly though we can still vehicle carry in Philly 

Well, she works for Bloomburg. Perhaps Bloomburg doesn't want NY subjects to be able to carry when they travel outside of NY.

[ryan_j 0]

 that when agreed to would permit RESIDENTS of Pa. and Utah to have their permits recognized in each other's states.

 

im guessing you're referring to this part of the text  

 

Correct, plus the previous correspondence between UT and PA

[ryan_j 0]

Well, she works for Bloomburg. Perhaps Bloomburg doesn't want NY subjects to be able to carry when they travel outside of NY.

 

That might be plausible. He wants to condition people into thinking that carry is out of reach and only for "special" people. 

[springfieldxds 0]

That might be plausible. He wants to condition people into thinking that carry is out of reach and only for "special" people. 

idk there is quite a few places in NY that give carry permits, wouldnt it be more beneficial to him to change that first than to attack PA 

[quikz 34]

You mean you guys havent figured it out? They are using classic Saul Alinski tactics. They have time on their side and ALL the time in the World.