You're a teacher? Victim of Domestic Violence? You're fired! (for the children)

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Collateral damage from 'gun free school zones' - teacher who is a victim of a violent ex-husband deemed too dangerous to employ:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52183094#.UbnF-efZhuB

 

 

 

 

A San Diego teacher was fired by Holy Trinity School following a domestic violence incident involving her ex-husband.

  Second-grade teacher Carie Charlesworth is out of a job, but not for anything she did in the classroom. Her school district considers her a liability and too unsafe to have around following a domestic violence dispute that happened earlier this year.

  A letter sent to Charlesworth said that school officials are concerned about her ex-husband's "threatening and menacing behavior," and as a result they "cannot allow" her to continue teaching at the Holy Trinity School.

 

...

 

 The letter stated:

"We know from the most recent incident involving you and Mrs. Wright (the principal) while you were still physically at Holy Trinity School, that the temporary restraining order in effect were not a deterrent to him. Although we understand he is current incarcerated, we have no way of knowing how long or short a time he will actually serve and we understand from court files that he may be released as early as next fall. In the interest of the safety of the students, faculty and parents at Holy Trinity School, we simply cannot allow you to return to work there, or, unfortunately, at any other school in the Diocese."

[Underdog 1,593]

Put a tracking device on that POS husband, and if he is caught anywhere near the school or his family, then arrest him and go from there. 

[H.M. Murdock 0]

This a private employer

[Hooligan 0]

Article states that he repeatedly violated restraining orders and was jailed on two felony charges.   He's scheduled to be released at the end of June.  This is what's wrong with the system.

 

Can the church get any more hypocitical?   They claim to have open arms and to help the poor and downtrodden, yet kick this poor woman to the curb.  Disgusting.  

[greatgunstatenj 32]

Article states that he repeatedly violated restraining orders and was jailed on two felony charges.   He's scheduled to be released at the end of June.  This is what's wrong with the system.

 

Can the church get any more hypocitical?   They claim to have open arms and to help the poor and downtrodden, yet kick this poor woman to the curb.  Disgusting.  

No fan of the Church but they are just like any other organization, potentially liable. If they keep her on staff and this nutjob comes back and harms children they will be sued from every which direction. I'm thinking the Church is trying to avoid more lawsuits! lol. The real problem here is the system like you said, this guy needs permanent lock up or some serious ECT. 

[brocglock23 4]

This a private employer

Absolutely and if she signed a contract that would leave her open to termination for this then unfortunately for her, she is S.O.L.

As far as her husband goes we can only hope that he trips and breaks his big toe, or something like that.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

How much of an employee's baggage must a private employer accomodate before they can get rid of the liability without being demonized?

 

And how many times should the private employer take a substantial monetary loss on locking down the school everytime this guy violates a court order?

[brucin 923]

That's so Christian of them.

[voyager9 3,443]

Maybe they should arm her and the other staff. Then they wouldn't be afraid of her ex.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

...........ummmmmmmmm  your wrong....................ethically and morally.....

 

I asked a question, I didn't make a statement

 

Here's another question.. if the school kept her on despite the liability, who will pay the additional insurance premiums?  Probably not the parents who removed their children from school out of concern for their safety

 

Remember that this guy has already come to the school in anger!

 

I don't understand why everyone is demonizing the school.  The problem is the revolving door of the criminal justice system.  The school can't possibly bear the brunt of that.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

I think I get it, you guys are upset because the employer is the church and this goes against Christian principles?

 

Well I went to Catholic school so I know better than that!

[djg0770 481]

I'm more upset at the revolving criminal justice system that allows this repeat offender to continue to offend.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I can see both sides of this issue, HOWEVER the Catholic Church should have come down on the side of it's teachings and done what is morally correct instead of terminating her.  My son went to Catholic School from K-8, so I know how the system works.  There are plenty of jobs and plenty of schools.  Reassignment along with change in hair color, etc. in an attempt to put parents at-ease as well as get a full day's work from an employee would be called for.  In other words, work WITH the victim, NOT against her.

 

SHAME on them!

[voyager9 3,443]

It's both.

 

It's a shame that the revolving door justice system put her in this position.

 

It's a double shame that the school made it worse by firing her.

 

I understand the liability concerns. They're completely valid. But firing her is a horrible and self centered solution.

[djg0770 481]

It's a horrible solution.

 

So how would you have handled what the Police and courts have been unable to do? How would YOU ensure the safety of MY child if you were in charge??

[tony357 386]

They should have called the Pope and had Moses pay her EX a visit..!!

[Barms 98]

For all of you that are parents:

 

Your kid goes to the school. You have true knowledge that a felony gentlemen who was told not to go near the school still goes "and exhibits menacing behavior"

 

Either I pull my kid or or the teacher goes its that simple.

 

We all talk on here about situational awareness. Well we know this situation is bad. And you would do nothing? Teacher goes or my Kid goes.

[djg0770 481]

They should have called the Pope and had Moses pay her EX a visit..!!

 

F Moses.  I want Samson who killed 1,000 with the jawbone of a donkey!

[JackDaWack 2,895]

It's the teacher or the kids? One must go? If your worried the school can't secure itself then that in itself is an issue. If your worried the school can't keep someone out of the building I wouldn't want my kid there either. But that has not one single thing to do with the teacher. Maybe we should kick every kid out who lives in a house where domestic violence is an issue. What is stopping this guy from entering the school? Probably the same things that keeps every pedofile out.

[brocglock23 4]

I would submit that the attitude of ........."either she goes or my kid goes"...is EVERYTHING that is WRONG with our society at this time....... Frankly if I were omnipotent in that Dioceses, I would say take your kids and go....but that's just me.

 

When I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror to shave, who do I want looking back at me......? It seems some don't mind a shallow, narcissistic hulk looking back....that's not me....

Now this is probably far fetched but bare with me because this could happen.

 

A group of parents rally to keep her. She stays (yay!!!), husband gets out of the slammer. He comes to the school and SHTF, people die and from a situation that could have been avoided. As a parent how could you look at yourself in the mirror and say, "yeah, i still did the right thing by helping one woman keep her job and sacrifice other people's well being."

 

It's just maybe the difference between us but to me that is the same mentally "if it helps one person (teacher) we will inconvenience others rights (student's safety).

 

Now in a perfect situation I'd say arm the teachers, she keeps her job and if the dirtbag comes back they are ready to defend themselves. However you know just as well as I do that will never happen. It's an unfortunate situation and we could probably argue about it till we are blue in the face but I think this is simply a failure of the criminal justice system.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

How can you blame the justice system when society as a whole is doing the same garbage to this woman! Justice system doesn't do it's job and instead of helping her, we just toss her out on her own, just like the justice system did. You want the justice system to change, well look in the mirror, cause nothing is gonna happen when people look at this and justify the action.

[brocglock23 4]

How can you blame the justice system when society as a whole is doing the same garbage to this woman! Justice system doesn't do it's job and instead of helping her, we just toss her out on her own, just like the justice system did. You want the justice system to change, well look in the mirror, cause nothing is gonna happen when people look at this and justify the action

Let's say this was in NJ. Your kids are in the school the teacher is in, what would you do? Take off work everyday your kids are in school to possibly confront the guy everyday. Get a group together and do rounds? Pay private security? Beat the living hell out of the guy and possibly face criminal and civil charges? I understand your view point and I can even agree with it in a perfect world but what about if this was happening to your kids.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

OK, I am a Father I have an 18 and 16 year old..........one is now going to study to be a teacher.  I have teachers that are family members, I have teachers that are friends.

 

I was also raised in a family that you don't turn your back on your own......I guess I am loyal to a fault.  Lessee it makes perfect sense to take a good dedicated employee of 14 years

and hang them out in the wind, due to NO FAULT of their own.  I can see that happening in the corporate world...but in a catholic (Christian) environment...  shameful.

 

Having been a security professional for the past 25 years, I am keenly aware of the problems of school safety and safety in general.  We do NOT know their SOP for any event let alone

unauthorized access to the property by persons fitting this criterion.  I am currently working on a large project for 14 buildings addressing this VERY issue, and guess what they do NOT have an SOP...they think they did, but they don't.

They will when I am done......with a multi layered security profile....

 

This forum and this message thread is not the venue for me to lash out on a diatribe on what they can or can not do, however there ARE methods, procedures and the like that CAN and WILL protect the occupants and educators from such an event..and OTHER events like it......

 

The problem here is twofold, it is reactionary without, what appears to be due consideration for all the avenues that they can look to mitigate the problem,  as well as falling into the post sandy hook, for the children safety extremism.

You cannot protect everyone from every little problem or situation.....you can try, but you cannot.

 

They are setting a very bad example for the students as well, problem................. push it under the rug....yeah makes sense...

 

So by extrapolation let's take this a step further....you say, Teacher has a problem with husband...husband is stalker and we fear for our students...fire teacher... problem solved... 

 

By that arguement how can you then NOT support MORE DRASTIC gun control?  How can you NOT support universal backround checks....?  Hey bad guys get guns...we must do ALL we can to PROTECT THE CHILDREN....right??

 

How can you NOT support NSA wiretapping eavesdropping of all citizens?  Its for our own good right....Gotta keep us safe....screw liberty and loyalty....

 

See your stance is flawed on many levels....I am not trying to intimate that there is an EASY solution, but there are OTHER solutions other than terminating and hanging out in the wind, a dedicated employee of 14 years....when she needs to be HELPED and provided a helping hand....not cast aside like some used trash bag....

 

 

I would submit that the attitude of ........."either she goes or my kid goes"...is EVERYTHING that is WRONG with our society at this time.......  Frankly if I were omnipotent in that Dioceses, I would say take your kids and go....but that's just me.

 

When I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror to shave, who do I want looking back at me......?  It seems some don't mind a shallow, narcissistic hulk looking back....that's not me....

 

 

Nick,

 

A GRAND SLAM!!      I can not for the life of me fathom any other solution that should come from a Christian Catholic School System.  Any other way of thinking is directly akin to saying, "We don't care if others get hurt or worse, just so long as it doesn't happen to my kids or at our school!"  Typical NIMBY behavior!  I'm fearful that some of us here have been infected with the Virus of Hope and Change:  You HOPE that the bad guy won't come lookin' for trouble, but in the meantime, you CHANGE by giving-up your righteous principles of Right vs. Wrong, setting a bad example for other adults and kids alike, and passing the buck!   What ever happened to growing a set and defending your perimeter (School Grounds) with layered security?  

 

I'm actually ashamed of some of you for becoming part of the problem!

[RUTGERS95 890]

How much of an employee's baggage must a private employer accomodate before they can get rid of the liability without being demonized?

 

And how many times should the private employer take a substantial monetary loss on locking down the school everytime this guy violates a court order?

 

 

agree

 

this has nothing to do with the church so those ignorant comments should stop.  This is about the legal and judicial system as we know it and what it does to the liability concerns that all entities face today.

[RUTGERS95 890]

OK, I am a Father I have an 18 and 16 year old..........one is now going to study to be a teacher.  I have teachers that are family members, I have teachers that are friends.

 

I was also raised in a family that you don't turn your back on your own......I guess I am loyal to a fault.  Lessee it makes perfect sense to take a good dedicated employee of 14 years

and hang them out in the wind, due to NO FAULT of their own.  I can see that happening in the corporate world...but in a catholic (Christian) environment...  shameful.

 

Having been a security professional for the past 25 years, I am keenly aware of the problems of school safety and safety in general.  We do NOT know their SOP for any event let alone

unauthorized access to the property by persons fitting this criterion.  I am currently working on a large project for 14 buildings addressing this VERY issue, and guess what they do NOT have an SOP...they think they did, but they don't.

They will when I am done......with a multi layered security profile....

 

This forum and this message thread is not the venue for me to lash out on a diatribe on what they can or can not do, however there ARE methods, procedures and the like that CAN and WILL protect the occupants and educators from such an event..and OTHER events like it......

 

The problem here is twofold, it is reactionary without, what appears to be due consideration for all the avenues that they can look to mitigate the problem,  as well as falling into the post sandy hook, for the children safety extremism.

You cannot protect everyone from every little problem or situation.....you can try, but you cannot.

 

They are setting a very bad example for the students as well, problem................. push it under the rug....yeah makes sense...

 

So by extrapolation let's take this a step further....you say, Teacher has a problem with husband...husband is stalker and we fear for our students...fire teacher... problem solved... 

 

By that arguement how can you then NOT support MORE DRASTIC gun control?  How can you NOT support universal backround checks....?  Hey bad guys get guns...we must do ALL we can to PROTECT THE CHILDREN....right??

 

How can you NOT support NSA wiretapping eavesdropping of all citizens?  Its for our own good right....Gotta keep us safe....screw liberty and loyalty....

 

See your stance is flawed on many levels....I am not trying to intimate that there is an EASY solution, but there are OTHER solutions other than terminating and hanging out in the wind, a dedicated employee of 14 years....when she needs to be HELPED and provided a helping hand....not cast aside like some used trash bag....

 

 

I would submit that the attitude of ........."either she goes or my kid goes"...is EVERYTHING that is WRONG with our society at this time.......  Frankly if I were omnipotent in that Dioceses, I would say take your kids and go....but that's just me.

 

When I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror to shave, who do I want looking back at me......?  It seems some don't mind a shallow, narcissistic hulk looking back....that's not me....

 respectfully, you need to get a clue on risk assessments in the workplace. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Let's say this was in NJ. Your kids are in the school the teacher is in, what would you do? Take off work everyday your kids are in school to possibly confront the guy everyday. Get a group together and do rounds? Pay private security? Beat the living hell out of the guy and possibly face criminal and civil charges? I understand your view point and I can even agree with it in a perfect world but what about if this was happening to your kids.

 

My expectations are that the school should be able to keep anyone out of the school who should not be there. The restraining order is active and the guy would be In violation and arrested the first time he steps on school grounds. There are people who would like to hurt your kids in every school out there. You don't do all that now? Why would this woman's husband change that? Like I said the school is either able to secure itself or not, your just amplifying the security issue surrounding schools. If this school can't keep some wife beater out then the issue is much worse. If this is your proposition then it would be fair to kick every kid out affiliated with domestic violence or any kid or family member associate with LEO's who make many enemies that draw attention the their family. Your going of the assumption something will happen, so we can generalize those same assumptions. Shit how about we kick all the priest out too, they seem to be the worst offenders. If you have been following the nj news look up the name Michael fugee.

[brocglock23 4]

My expectations are that the school should be able to keep anyone out of the school who should not be there. The restraining order is active and the guy would be In violation and arrested the first time he steps on school grounds. There are people who would like the hurt your kids in ever school out there. You don't do all that now? Why would this woman's husband change that? Like I said the school is either able to secure itself or not, your just amplifying the security issue surrounding schools. If this school can't keep some wife beater out then the issue is much worse. Of this is your proposition then it would be fair to kick every kid out affiliated with domestic violence or any kid or family member associate with LEO's who make many enemies that draw attention the their family. Your going of the assumption something will happen, so we can generalize those same assumptions.

I'm man enough to admit, I didn't look at it in all of those situations. Don't get me wrong, I can agree with the private schools liability view point but also I can see your. Glad we had this conversation like adults. Then I'll say this, It's a shame the school didn't feel it could protect its staff and students properly.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

It is easier to get rid of a problem the deal with it. It has to be a nightmare dealing with the parents.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

My expectations are that the school should be able to keep anyone out of the school who should not be there. The restraining order is active and the guy would be In violation and arrested the first time he steps on school grounds. There are people who would like to hurt your kids in every school out there. You don't do all that now? Why would this woman's husband change that? Like I said the school is either able to secure itself or not, your just amplifying the security issue surrounding schools. If this school can't keep some wife beater out then the issue is much worse. If this is your proposition then it would be fair to kick every kid out affiliated with domestic violence or any kid or family member associate with LEO's who make many enemies that draw attention the their family. Your going of the assumption something will happen, so we can generalize those same assumptions. Shit how about we kick all the priest out too, they seem to be the worst offenders. If you have been following the nj news look up the name Michael fugee.

There isn't a school in the United States that can 100% secure itself against someone hell bent on doing harm to those within. Also, the school isn't going on any assumption, something has already happened. He already came to the school once. I definitely see your point and I'm not sure I agree with the decision of the school but it is very easy to see why they did it. The justice system is failing so they are supposed to pick up the slack? Tall order for a private school that is probably barely keeping it's doors open, financially speaking. And yes I realize Catholic schools closing for financial issues flies in the face of the Church being one of the richest institutions on the planet but that is a whole nother ball of wax!

[JackDaWack 2,895]

It's not that they should pick up the slack. But it is an assumption that he will do something. Like u said he went to the school once and it didn't explode. Besides a school is much more secure then anywhere else he might find the teacher to do her harm. When we as a society community punish the victim of a crime what kinda message does that send to our justice system.

 

 

Trust me. I get why they did it. It is to me however the wrong thing to do.