NJ man approaches police, they confiscate his guns...

[deerpark 83]

no but it could be a good indicator of somebody is about to go off the deep end.

 

True.  Would just like some due process before they confiscated his guns.

 

At-least wait until the completion of the mental evaluation.  Though in NJ, the threshold is probably pretty low, especially if gun confiscations are involved. 

[checko 180]

Probably save the "WTF" until we find out if the letter was 20 pages of Bat Shit Crazy.

 

 

Winner winner, chicken dinner. 

[BlueLineFish 615]

Sorry..if you are showing signs of crazy...im taking anything dangerous to not only others but yourself as well. If he is deemed not a threat by a mental health professional he should get them back. Will he. Probably not . Then it becomes an issue.

[Albanian 121]

20 page letter? Like someone said, bound to go off topic and say something crazy.

[maintenanceguy 510]

If his mental state disqualified him from having firearms for his or other's own protection, then I'm okay with them being removed. 

 

I do have two problems with how this was handled.   First is Being in such a hurry to do so.  If he's really a danger, the hospital will keep him for an evaluation and there is time for some due process before removing rights.

 

But the big problem is that they have a man that is probably suffering from some mental disease, has a perfectly legal collection of something at home and the local police take this as an opportunity to photograph his perfectly legal and private collection, send the photos to the newspaper and announce the "bust" and imply that this poor guy was crazy and dangerous and that they saved the day.  This guy deserves his privacy as much as anyone with a disease.  Whatever problems he was having, he gets a lot of credit for going to the police to ask for help.   But he's learned his lesson and will never ask for help again.  If they were doing this for he public good, they would have done it without parading this mans problems in front of the media.

 

Isn't there a law now that prevents releasing the names and addresses of legal gun owners in NJ?

[ChrisJM981 924]

Isn't there a law now that prevents releasing the names and addresses of legal gun owners in NJ?

Depends on if it went into effect immediately upon receiving the governor's signature or one of those 30/60 days after deals. Going to look it up now.

[Barms 98]

How do they get into a gun safe or vault? Bust it open ?

[W2MC 1,699]

What is the justification for publicly displaying his firearms like they are trophies from a drug bust?

 

+1 

 

There IS NO JUSTIFICATION.  He may be batshit crazy, but he has done nothing wrong.

[Black Ops 1]

What is the justification for publicly displaying his firearms like they are trophies from a drug bust?

I agree - a crime has not been charged.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I agree with that everything should be kept private but that's almost impossible nowadays. Especially with every time the police show up somewhere is posted here by shawnmore and his cop obsessed minions. This stuff will always be made public.

[W2MC 1,699]

I agree with that everything should be kept private but that's almost impossible nowadays. Especially with every time the police show up somewhere is posted here by shawnmore and his cop obsessed minions. This stuff will always be made public.

 

There's a big difference between TRYING to keep something quiet and PARADING something in front of the media.

[RUTGERS95 890]

ok...point is...what was said in the letter maybe gave the police some concern. Its not like he wrote them a poem and they went to his house to take his guns. I am just going to say that most normal people dont write twenty page letters to the police. Maybe it was his manifesto.

agreed

[jrfly3006 42]

Spot on......Once again the old rule is true..never ever ever talk to the police....sorry but its kinda true ....

What was in the letter..who knows....and if we do find out it will be spun so he seems psychotic...even if he is...his privacy should be paramount..not parade him,like some pariah ...

If this does not give you pause to think as to the state of firearms ownership as perceived by the public, law enforcement and the mentality of both in NJ ....your deluding yourself

while I completely agree privacy should have been kept in this matter.. Telling people to never talk to police is naive.. IF..emphasis on IF..this man was hell bent on hurting himself or someone else and his talking to the cops saved his life or that of others.. Then mission accomplished

[67gtonut 847]

Heading toward an unproductive conversation ..........

[alowerlevel 77]

 IBTL   

[BlueLineFish 615]

Heading toward an unproductive conversation ..........

what else is new..should stick to gun talk

[mikelets456 78]

So i guess you made your judgement based off of reading that letter. If so share it with us so we can get all the info too. Oh wait...you didnt read the letter. Shocker..you made a judgement without knowing all the facts. Sounds about right for this place

 

 

So you're for confiscation even if the letter was "weird"? Maybe sometime soon, your stuff will be confiscated because you own guns and that makes you crazy. Remember this case:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/19/nj-father-says-caseworkers-wrongly-tried-to-search-home-after-photo-son-10-with/

 

NJ father says caseworkers wrongly tried to search home after photo of son, 10, with rifle

 

 

 

Sorry. The line has been crossed and I'm having trouble believing "it's for our safety". How on earth are we now believing that confiscation is okay? Besides the gang bangers it's like 20-30 deaths per year committed by these psychos. Mostly with knives, torture and so forth. But we pick one or two cases and agree "yes, it's for our safety". Well, it's for our safety that we're in this mess we're in right now. WE let government get away with what they believe is right...not what's actually right.

 

Blueline, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a LEO, right? I've seen some of the scariest post with you believing that citizens are second class citizens and you're above them. Scary mentality...very scary.

[W2MC 1,699]

So you're for confiscation even if the letter was "weird"? Maybe sometime soon, your stuff will be confiscated because you own guns and that makes you crazy. Remember this case:

 

SNIP.

 

Actually, the letter very likely WAS weird (20 pages?)...and they DID get a warrant, according to the article, which is what the Police are SUPPOSED to do...If this guy is a danger to himself or others, the Police appear to be doing their job in that respect. 

 

BUT....I cannot understand the spread they did for the media.  You wouldn't do a "perp walk" with this guy...he's deranged and confused; and apparently not a suspect for anything.  We can (and should) feel very sad for him, and hope he gets the treatment he needs. 

 

But what purpose did putting his firearm collection on-display serve?

[mikeyjones 88]

These threads all start to sound the same.

[BlueLineFish 615]

So you're for confiscation even if the letter was "weird"? Maybe sometime soon, your stuff will be confiscated because you own guns and that makes you crazy. Remember this case:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/19/nj-father-says-caseworkers-wrongly-tried-to-search-home-after-photo-son-10-with/

 

NJ father says caseworkers wrongly tried to search home after photo of son, 10, with rifle

 

 

 

Sorry. The line has been crossed and I'm having trouble believing "it's for our safety". How on earth are we now believing that confiscation is okay? Besides the gang bangers it's like 20-30 deaths per year committed by these psychos. Mostly with knives, torture and so forth. But we pick one or two cases and agree "yes, it's for our safety". Well, it's for our safety that we're in this mess we're in right now. WE let government get away with what they believe is right...not what's actually right.

 

Blueline, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a LEO, right? I've seen some of the scariest post with you believing that citizens are second class citizens and you're above them. Scary mentality...very scary.

Then you really dont pay attention. I am LEO but never consider myself better than anybody else. I take that as an insult because i go out of my way to try and disprove that incorrect assumption about all police. I can see now no matter what it doesnt matter.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

Then you really dont pay attention. I am LEO but never consider myself better than anybody else. I take that as an insult because i go out of my way to try and disprove that incorrect assumption about all police. I can see now no matter what it doesnt matter.

He is referring to your behavior on the forum and not on the job. You take nearly every opportunity to engage in these conversations and often act as an "apologist" for the police. Not always, but most of the time - every once in the while you call them out. To some, you come off with the attitude that the police can do no wrong. I happen to agree with your take on this one... the letter was probably disturbing and they acted properly but shouldn't have made his collection visible to the public. I'll take it a bit further and say the latter was an abuse of authority and beyond the scope of their duty. They are police officers not public relations consultants. 

 

In the end, you are correct, what you say probably doesn't matter and won't change opinions of the hardcore so save yourself the frustration and don't even open these threads. 

[Barms 98]

Mental note. My next house has a hidden gun closet

 

I would still like to know what happens when your shit is in a vault ?

[carguy3j 0]

Mental note. My next house has a hidden gun closet

 

I would still like to know what happens when your shit is in a vault ?

I'm guessing that the warrant "allows" them to break into it..... Probably like passwords/encryption. They can't make you give up the key, but they can then do whatever they want to try and get in themselves

 

As for the hidden closet, if its truly hidden, well... They can't find / break into what they can't see.... Of course, if you have handguns hidden in there, they will know that something is missing, and they'll look REAL hard (Like, maybe sledgehammer/crowbar hard) to find it/them. I would think that as long as you only hide long guns/ammo, and don't get careless with leaving receipts or other documentation anywhere it might be discovered, then they'll never know they exist, let alone that they are right under their noses. Its not like they're bringing in ground penetrating radar or something. You would probably just want to put them in there, and leave them, for an emergency. Repeated access to the hidden area will leave clues, like wear marks, disturbed dust, etc... (Yeah, I guess I watch a lot of TV, but its still true) Maybe have a few "regular" ones out and accessible, as "sacrificial lambs", so they think they got something. Ie, if they KNOW you have guns, then they need to find something.

 

If you're thinking about a SHFT/confiscation scenario, it might make sense to bury (well sealed/protected) some undocumented long guns/ammo, in a very inconspicuous place. Someplace even you couldn't/wouldn't try to access under normal circumstances, but where they could be gotten in an emergency. (Like maybe under a small outbuilding/shed,etc..) I was going to say under a pool, but in a SHTF scenario, you wouldn't want to sacrifice the stored water, or the continuing storage/collection value of the pool, just to dig up the guns.

[DbleTrouble 8]

I think they would call a locksmith to open up the safe if you didn't cough up the key.  Not sure how they would check for hidden things inside walls but I'm guessing they have a way.  It's too easy to hide things behind sheetrock and they would have to tear down the house to find anything.

[carguy3j 0]

I think they would call a locksmith to open up the safe if you didn't cough up the key.  Not sure how they would check for hidden things inside walls but I'm guessing they have a way.  It's too easy to hide things behind sheetrock and they would have to tear down the house to find anything.

I don't think the average locksmith has the tools or training to pick really high end safes. Sure, a Walmart special, yeah sure. But for anything real quality, I think some "destructive" methods would probably be needed,without the key. Who knows?

 

Yes, they do have ways of looking inside walls. You or I do too. We can go to home depot and buy an inspection camera for about $100 and up. "They" also have more sophisticated sonar/radar based non-destructive imaging equipment; as well as infrared stuff. However, a.) I doubt most SMALL town depts have it, and b.) they aren't going to go through all that trouble routinely; especially if they think they already got everything and there is nothing to tell them otherwise.

Now, again, handguns, they WILL KNOW what you are supposed to have, and if they don't find it, they'll keep digging.  Similarly, if someone close to you were to rat you out, and tell them exactly how many guns you have, or clear descriptions of specific guns ("Yes, officer, my crazy gun nut @ssh@le neighbor has an evil black rifle with his name and flaming neon red dragon on it. You can't miss it. Please take that dangerous thing away from him"), then they better find those guns.

But, guy has "some guns" - cops find "some guns" and no sign/indications of any more= search over " We got all of his guns", never mind that they could be standing on top of arsenal big enough for a small country and never know it. - Assuming they aren't already digging up your floorboards anyway, to investigate that awful stink and the strange ooze. In that case, you're screwed, as you should be.....

[Barms 98]

Nooooo. Not crazy like burying them.

 

What i meant was that if the status quo is to have your "cache" displayed in the newspapers for everyone to see then isn't it wiser to have most of the stash out of plain sight ?

 

I'm just saying how many hunters are on this board or sporting guys that have 6 long guns. You get into a domestic dispute and next thing you know your long guns are in the paper and you look like a loonie

 

I think sound advice. HD at the ready and the rest where can't be found. That's what I meant

 

And this is from a guy who has nothing but I take all these stories in here and say "what If that was me?"

 

Minus the 20 page letter part. :-)

[Barms 98]

Let me reiterate not hiding because afraid of governments or sormething like that. I mean just not having weapons accompany the newspaper article about your domestic dispute or your argument with your neighbor.

 

Like this: you have one jug of moonshine in the kitchen nobdiy cares. You have 100 in the basement and it makes the newspaper

[vladtepes 1,060]

Not only 20 pages.... But 20 pages about "someone following him" the things you say CAN indicate you are potentially an immediate threat.... Do something off the wall like babble about people following you in a 20 page story... And it's a good indication you might be a little over the edge.... Take the guns... Evaluate... And if not a threat return immediately...

[deerpark 83]

I dont know that the focus should be on "hiding guns" (though in NJ, its seems like thats what its come to).

 

The focus, IMHO, is that it should be much more difficult to confiscate guns.

 

Obviously, this is not a normal situation, with the allegations that hes being followed and the "20 page letter".

 

Difficult to say whats really going on until we hear from the actual gentleman.

 

TBH, I don’t think this situation would be as concerning if it weren’t for the fact that gun rights in NJ are under constant scrutiny (putting it mildly).

[Grapeshot 301]

He is referring to your behavior on the forum and not on the job. You take nearly every opportunity to engage in these conversations and often act as an "apologist" for the police. Not always, but most of the time - every once in the while you call them out. To some, you come off with the attitude that the police can do no wrong. I happen to agree with your take on this one... the letter was probably disturbing and they acted properly but shouldn't have made his collection visible to the public. I'll take it a bit further and say the latter was an abuse of authority and beyond the scope of their duty. They are police officers not public relations consultants. 

 

In the end, you are correct, what you say probably doesn't matter and won't change opinions of the hardcore so save yourself the frustration and don't even open these threads. 

 

I, for one, appreciate BLF’s comments. I have no LEO friends or acquaintances, and so I find his views and opinions valuable in understanding how LEOs think, how they've been trained, and what their expectations are. I think it’s important to understand their viewpoint, because sooner or later you are going to need to deal with them, and I’d rather do so with some knowledge, especially knowing what the “triggers” are.  

 

 

I've edited my current letter to my local police down to 10 pages - still too much?