"Reasonable deviations" to be clarified in exchange for 10 rounds

[pjd832 146]

Why should we give up (more of) our rights in return for something the legislators should be doing anyway?

 

There's nothing to compromise on; if the law is unclear, legislators, do your f**king jobs and clarify it.

"Reasonably necessary" is clear enough to me...but people who wanted bathroom locations and restaurants named in the bill should be happy their wishes are being considered now......it's give and take ....give us something already in the statutes ...take even more actual rights .....makes them seem as though they are "making concession and negotiating".... Lmao what a criminal state....

[carl_g 568]

So let me see if I have this straight, they want to clarify an already stupid law; and in exchange they want to further cripple our ability to defend ourselves against lawless predators?

Yes.

[JTS1469 0]

how is clarification a compromise? The way i see it is being a lose lose. The clarification would only serve to jail anyone that goes anywhere other then the most likely 2 places they set. My guess is bathroom and gas. Right now being unclear there's a chance that if something happen you would have a chance of not being arrested if they make it clear you step outside there line you go directly to jail without question.

[pjd832 146]

Just had a brainstorm....maybe the "clarification proponents" should strike while the irons hot and get some clarification on "loaded mags"..... Hell that's worth what another 5 round mag reduction?..... I'm sure we could compromise all of our rights away on clarifications on statutes that are self apparent ...(sarcasm) smh

[ryan_j 0]

Just had a brainstorm....maybe the "clarification proponents" should strike while the irons hot and get some clarification on "loaded mags"..... Hell that's worth what another 5 round mag reduction?..... I'm sure we could compromise all of our rights away on clarifications on statutes that are self apparent ...(sarcasm) smh

 

Well played, sir. Well played!

[ryan_j 0]

From ANJRPC:

 

NJ DEMS CLAIM "DEAL" TO BAN

MAGAZINES OVER 10 ROUNDS

 

Watered-Down "Fix" to Firearms Transportation Law

Is Supposed to Pacify Legal Gun Owners

 

A news story is making the rounds today indicating that a "deal" has been cut between Senate and Assembly Democrats to ban firearms magazines over 10 rounds, in exchange for a supposed "fix" to a firearms transportation law that threatens gun owners with incarceration if they stop en route to the range or other authorized points. 

 

The story indicates that legislative leaders will be joined by Newtown victims' families as part of  "the fanfare" (the reporter's words, not ours) at an upcoming press conference.

 

The story has fueled speculation among gun owners that Second Amendment organizations were somehow involved in this supposed "deal."  Neither ANJRPC, nor any other Second Amendment organization of which we are aware, had any involvement in such an arrangement.

 

More importantly, this news is a reminder that there remain politicians in the Garden State who continue to exploit tragedy to advance a pre-conceived agenda that has nothing to do with stopping criminals or madmen, and everything to do with limiting the self-defense rights of law-abiding citizens.

 

Arbitrary magazine limits do nothing to stop tragedy.  Those bent on doing evil will not follow a magazine ban, and even if they did, magazines can be changed quickly.  This kind of legislation gives criminals advantage over the law-abiding, and ties the hands of citizens in an emergency or home invasion.

 

Additionally, the idea that gun owners will accept a magazine ban in exchange for a supposed "fix" of an unrelated issue, is absurd.  Both issues represent an infringement of Constitutionally protected rights.  Gun owners will never, ever trade one infringement for another.

 

The message to gun owners is clear: the threat to Freedom in the Garden State is ever-present, and it will soon be time to answer the call once again.  Please get ready to attend upcoming hearings when they are announced, and to speak out in every way possible.

 

Please watch for upcoming alerts with details as soon as we have them.

[ryan_j 0]

From NJ2AS:

 

 February 20, 2014 - Manahawkin, NJ

 New Jersey Democrats in the Senate and Assembly announced today that they have reached a “deal” to ban firearms magazines over the arbitrary number of 10 rounds. It was claimed in a news article that this “deal” was in exchange for supporting a bill favorable to firearms owners, amending the existing  “reasonable deviation” restriction in transportation of firearms to and from the range.

The New Jersey Second Amendment Society was not involved in any such “deal” and is unaware of any rights-based organization in New Jersey that supports a reduction in magazine capacity from the current 15 rounds to an arbitrary 10 rounds.  It appears the “deal” was made between Democrats in both houses of the Legislature. 

The New Jersey Second Amendment Society condemns such backroom “deals” by the Legislature, particularly as the people of New Jersey have not been given the opportunity to testify or attend hearings on the subject matter. Criminals will not abide by such magazine reductions, once again leaving the law-abiding citizen to remain in a position of State-mandated victimhood.

The New Jersey Second Amendment Society maintains that the actions of the Legislature are unconstitutional in both substance and procedure, and an appropriate response is warranted.

It was further announced today that Democratic legislative leaders will host some Newtown, Connecticut Victims’ families at a press conference in support of this latest attempt at gun control in  New Jersey.   The NJ2AS, its leadership, membership and supporters all mourned the senseless killing of innocent children by a madman in Newtown, Connecticut.   However, the Democrats in the New Jersey Legislature are exploiting the victims and their families, using tragedy and related emotion to further infringe on the rights of New Jersey’s law-abiding gun owners.   For this, we cannot stand despite the degree of emotion involved.

Each and every member and supporter should be prepared to become involved in stopping this unconstitutional attack on our liberties.   Be on the alert for further communications regarding how you can help the Society respond to these unconstitutional attacks once that information is available.

[JibbaJabba 7]

Thanks Ryan

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Sweeney is a lying sack of shit.  During the hearing in Trenton last year he shook my hand and promised me that he would never vote to reduce magazine size from 15 rounds as it would do nothing to reduce crime or violence.  Douche bag.

 

 

That has my blood boiling.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, why the hell would you intently shake Sweeney's hand!?

 

You know how to tell if a politician is lying? ...................Their lips are moving.

[Albanian 121]

What was that quote about disobeying unjust laws again?

[RUTGERS95 890]

no compliance if passed and we need to contact our reps RIGHT NOW......get on it people....We do not negotiate our rights away and who the fk would agree to these concessions???????????????

[Newtonian 453]

I'm totally against giving up an inch because we never get it back. BUT remember when you were a teenager and your parents started letting you off the leash a little bit? They'd let you go to the movies with your friends or something. Then if you didn't get in any trouble maybe they'd let you actually drive with your friend to the movie. And then if you were still responsible maybe you could drive with your friend to the movies and then you could go back to their house and spend the night. ...imagine this: we make a deal to accept 10 round mags in exchange for treating handguns no different by law then long guns. Then in 2 years if gun crimes haven't sky rocketed we go back to 15 round mags and still treat handguns no differently than long guns. Then 2 more years if gun crimes haven't gone up we do away with "justifiable need" and become a Shall Issue state. And then this time we wait 5 years and check if in that 5th year stats are somewhat the same and revisit everything based on what has transpired. The only flaw in what I'm saying is who would trust our NJ government to keep its end of the deal? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pure fantasy. This has nothing to do with reason, statistics, or actual experience. If it were, the experiences from 47 other states by now would suffice. This is why any effort to influence our legislators is a waste of time.

 

This is about spite, vindictiveness, and an in-bred hatred of guns and people who use them. It's an epidemic in this state, even among Republicans. Were this not so then things would have changed for the better the last time we had a veto-proof majority in the legislature, during Florio's term of office, and after the other "Chris," Crispy Turd Witless, was governor.

[Newtonian 453]

Why was my long, detailed response to Phosgene deleted?

 

(retracted: wrong forum. Sorry.)

[revenger 473]

Action has to be taken on a national level,  Christie MUST be publicly asked about this infringement  as he gallivants across the country pimping for the republican governors association and MUST be put on notice that ANY, ANY further infringement on Americans rights will not be tolerated by the country.    Free America must be educated about him as well as he must be educated about us and understand that the next non-democrat candidate for president MUST be pro-constitution.      Letters sent to NJ politicians are for the most part worthless at this point and we must use the national arena as our fulcrum to force him to veto any of this crap.    We must get our gun community allies in Free America to bring these questions up wherever Christie goes.

[falcone 89]

The only letters, calls, and emails should be sent to the republican members of the legislature. They all need to be against this. If some of them aren't, Christie might be inclined to sign it. Gotta make sure they don't get weak in the knees when the newtown people show up. And like comsec said, Christie needs to be asked about this on a national level. This story needs to be shared with every republican and conservative website, blog, twitter page, etc.

[remixer 1,645]

They are trying to slowly take away more of our freedoms.  We know this Mag limit does nothing at all to prevent crime.. its just the lefts plan to slowly move the goal post. at some point if these baby steps continue we will find ourselves in a position that cannot be reversed.

 

We must fight this with the same force that we would fight a complete ban on firearms period.

[Norseman 2]

Pure fantasy. This has nothing to do with reason, statistics, or actual experience. If it were, the experiences from 47 other states by now would suffice. This is why any effort to influence our legislators is a waste of time.

 

This is about spite, vindictiveness, and an in-bred hatred of guns and people who use them. It's an epidemic in this state, even among Republicans. Were this not so then things would have changed for the better the last time we had a veto-proof majority in the legislature, during Florio's term of office, and after the other "Chris," Crispy Turd Witless, was governor.

I agree it's pure fantasy. I'm saying "what if?" But I start out with "I'm against giving up anything because we never get it back" because the government wouldn't keep up it's end of the deal.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[remixer 1,645]

 "I'm against giving up anything because we never get it back" because the government wouldn't keep up it's end of the deal.

 

 

 

Exactly... you wont get it back but thats not the worst of it.. They will continue to chip away... this is part of the plan dont be fooled.

[Malsua 1,422]

The point of this exercise is to simply move the goal post and start infringing on our rights further.
  

It's only a compromise if you consider, tails they win, heads you lose a compromise.  It's political theater by democrats who do not have your best interest at heart.  It's about control and marginalizing YOU and setting the new start point to negotiating away your rights.

 

Sweeney can go sit on a punji stick.

[Mr.Stu 1,930]

So as far as I can see the main argument being put forward for smaller magazines is that it gives victims more chance to run away while a reload is being done.

 

Given that anyone who does even a jot of practice can swap magazines in less than 2 seconds - often less than 1, it's a pretty lame argument but it is what it is.

 

However, when set alongside the policy of schools doing a lock-down as soon as any gunfire is heard in the area - lock-down being the act of shutting all the kids in their classrooms and not running away at all - the argument becomes farsical.

[remixer 1,645]

Every time they move the goal post 1 step we need to move it back 2 to gain ground which in NJ is impossible . its bullshit.  Gun owners need to be heard.

 

The problem is lots of gun owners are "not political" maybe if they realized allot of handguns do not come in 10 rounds and it will cost them a fortune to convert them maybe they will get angry also... Sometimes the way to motivate a person is from the wallet.

 

 

Does any one know what "Gun advocate's" are accepting this behind the scene deal?

[Contrvlr 17]

Does any one know what "Gun advocate's" are accepting this behind the scene deal?

No "gun advocates" , it's a deal between Senate Demorats and Assembly Demorats, so not really a deal, just an agreement between anti gun clowns on how to proceed with restriction's on the rights of their subjects

[Burns 16]

This is total horse shit! I really hope Christy veto's this garbage. 

[boo 6]

The only letters, calls, and emails should be sent to the republican members of the legislature. They all need to be against this. If some of them aren't, Christie might be inclined to sign it. Gotta make sure they don't get weak in the knees when the newtown people show up. And like comsec said, Christie needs to be asked about this on a national level. This story needs to be shared with every republican and conservative website, blog, twitter page, etc.

 

This is what I'm thinking. Assuming everyone votes by party line, I don't think there are enough votes to override a Governor veto.

[remixer 1,645]

i think if they had those votes they would have done that on the last round he vetoed

[JibbaJabba 7]

The only letters, calls, and emails should be sent to the republican members of the legislature. They all need to be against this. If some of them aren't, Christie might be inclined to sign it. Gotta make sure they don't get weak in the knees when the newtown people show up. And like comsec said, Christie needs to be asked about this on a national level. This story needs to be shared with every republican and conservative website, blog, twitter page, etc.

Here's mine...

 

 

As your constituent, I'm writing to express my absolute opposition to any further infringements and transgressions against our 2nd Amendment rights, most recently being *restricting the magazine capacity of firearms from fifteen rounds to ten rounds. Any law restricting a magazine's capacity, which is less than the firearm's intended standard, is unjust and unconstitutional.

 

The Supreme Court of the United States' decision in the District of Columbia v. Heller provides that weapons, with the manufacturer's intended magazine (regardless of capacity) being an apparent part of that weapon, that are in **common use at the time, are protected. Isn't a firearm's intended, standard capacity, magazine only a member of the instrument that is a firearm?

 

With a magazine being only a piece to the puzzle that creates a firearm, ***even though these magazine's weren't in existence during the creation of the 2nd Amendment, it is still protected of said Amendment. Each firearm was created by the manufacturer with specific magazines made for that instrument, these being the model's standard-capacity magazines, and are packaged with said firearm. To restrict these pieces of the intended firearm is an infringement, but also for the ****interest-bearing premise of this proposal that by limiting commonly used magazines it will save lives.

 

For further evidence, look no further than NY's Chief U.S. District Judge William Sketny regarding the magazine restriction of NY's SAFE Act, stating that it was *****"largely an arbitrary restriction that impermissibly infringes on the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment." He went on to say that "it stretches the bounds of this court's deference to the predictive judgments of the legislature to suppose that those intent on doing harm . . . will load their weapon with only the permitted seven rounds..." Couldn't the same argument be made for any standard magazine restriction?

 

*http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/02/deal_in_place_to_cut_ammo_magazine_limit_to_10_rounds.html

 

** http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf (Columbia v. Heller, common use clause)

 

*** "...the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding." (Columbia v. Heller, subsection 8, paragraph 2)

 

**** "...no amount of interest-balancing under a heightened form of means-ends scrutiny can justify San Diego’s policy..." (Peruta v. San Diego)

 

***** http://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/spin-cycle-1.812042/judge-upholds-most-of-ny-gun-law-strikes-down-seven-bullet-limit-1.6701135

[ryan_j 0]

The other thing that could happen is that we could get the courts to hear a SAFE act challenge. Not the NJ courts, they're activist lapdogs. I'm talking about the US Supreme Court to apply Heller. Needs to be done soon. They are getting up there in age. 

 

Justice Scalia was saying something to the effect that if you think there couldn't be internment camps like they had during WW2 again, you're kidding yourself. So while much of what Nickjc is saying may sound alarmist, I think it has some merit. 

[njJoniGuy 2,133]

I personally believe this (the tall tale of a legislative compromise) is all a lie, a scam devised by the leftists to get a 10 round limit in place without giving an inch.

Van Drew's bill to define 'reasonable deviations' is a cover for them to continue their gun-grabbing dreams, as demonstrated by the Newtown parents' involvement in attempting to disarm the law abiding citizens of NJ.

If this crap actually passes and Christie allows it to become law, the non-compliance will be rampant.

And politicians in this G-d forsaken state will fall at the hands of two- shot derringers, six shot revolvers and long range rifles.

 

Just my opinion.

[NicePants 58]

Nope, I'm done complying. Implying I'm going to comply with this bullshit.

[Norseman 2]

Nope, I'm done complying. Implying I'm going to comply with this bullshit.

 

I'm not gonna either.

 

 

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