"Reasonable deviations" to be clarified in exchange for 10 rounds

[Vzguy 13]

I'd imagine they'd go with whatever the "standard" issue is for a given gun. For example, a "Sig-Sauer" P226 9mm comes standard with 15 round mags. OTOH, a Smith & Wesson M &P Shield 9mm comes with one 7 round mag and one 8 round mag standard. They can tell by the P2P which make & model of gun was purchased. So....  

You think they would go through all the P2P's and try to figure out what came with the guns ? You know how many P2P's were issued since they came into effect ? Over 1 Million gun owners in NJ and probably have at least 5 handguns each many with a much more that than. They would never try it, they don't have the manpower.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

You think they would go through all the P2P's and try to figure out what came with the guns ? You know how many P2P's were issued since they came into effect ? Over 1 Million gun owners in NJ and probably have at least 5 handguns each many with a much more that than. They would never try it, they don't have the manpower.

 

 

I'm not suggesting they will. I'm just saying how they *might* go about it. A lot depends on the letter and intent of the final law, once signed.  If there's any provision for a "sweep & clean" in the law (highly unlikely for "manpower" reasons, as you say), that's just one way they could start with it and not waste resources going "house to house" and searching everyone. I suspect that if it is signed, it will most likely be something to the effect that "if you're caught with them," it will be a violation, or "if you're being investigated for something," it's one thing they might be able to look at.

[siderman 1,138]

You think they would go through all the P2P's and try to figure out what came with the guns ? You know how many P2P's were issued since they came into effect ? Over 1 Million gun owners in NJ and probably have at least 5 handguns each many with a much more that than. They would never try it, they don't have the manpower.

If I were the paranoid type i would suggest that the NJSP already has computerized data cross-referenced with gun type/owner. A little homework searching for hg's with stock 15 rd mags and pull up all Beretta 92's with owners, another search for P226 9mm's and there's another list.... do you think there's actually mile high piles of paper p2ps?

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

Maybe like this?

http://www.amazon.com/IBM-Holocaust-Strategic-Alliance-Corporation/dp/0914153102

[Newtonian 453]

You think they would go through all the P2P's and try to figure out what came with the guns ? You know how many P2P's were issued since they came into effect ? Over 1 Million gun owners in NJ and probably have at least 5 handguns each many with a much more that than. They would never try it, they don't have the manpower.

The IRS doesn't have the manpower to check everyone's tax situation. Instead, each year they bust a couple of celebrities around April 15, and audit some fraction of everybody else. NJSP would only have to bust a couple of people for everyone else to get the message. 

 

As for democrats and votes, they WANT to be perceived as jackbooted thugs, as long as it's for the right causes. 

[Vzguy 13]

If they did it that way, do you understand the task at hand for the SP ?? Many guns could still be in their "system" but not owned by the original owner anymore. Shipped to another state, handed down in a death situation. There will never be confiscation of mags. Not possible, unless they went house to house with a warrant. Do you know how LONG it would take ? 

[Newtonian 453]

What is the reference to the 10-round limit law? S....??

[HBecwithFn7 296]

What is the reference to the 10-round limit law? S....??

 

S993 I think is the bill in question, although that might change again.

[Newtonian 453]

I've stated before that emailing most democrat legislators is a waste of time. Here's a different sort of approach. Ask your gun-supporting reps to hold their own media event:

 

Dear XXXXX:

 

I'm distressed that New Jersey's Democratic legislators have nothing better to do than introduce one ridiculous anti-gun bill after another. In this instance I'm referring to S993, which reduces the permitted magazine capacity from fifteen to ten.

 

I won't bore you with all the arguments against laws like this, as I'm sure you've heard them a thousand times.

 

What is particularly galling here is that the Democrats have announced a phony "deal" (with themselves!!), complete with the pathetic theater of dragging along crime victims' families for the photo-op. 

 

In return for reducing magazine capacities (and making tens of thousands of us instant felons), they will grant honest, law-abiding gun owners permission not to soil themselves on their way home from the range, and not to incur 130-mile round trips to have lunch with a range buddy. This is what New Jersey has come to: Not a "model for other states," as Ms. Weinberg claims, but a laughingstock where legislators micro-manage the lives of ordinary people.

 

I know you will vote against this bill, but you must do more. You and your Republican colleagues (as well as reasonable democrats) must hold a press conference of your own to explain this issue to the public, to expose the anti-gun Democrats for the spiteful individuals they are, and to re-affirm your position on the Second Amendment for all New Jersey voters.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

XXXXX

[Jag07 0]

YES, you can call, email, fax and GO THERE and talk to them at their district offices.

Now big long letter to make my point abundantly clear or short and sweet with small words so they understand?

[Newtonian 453]

S993 I think is the bill in question, although that might change again.

Got it, found it. Thanks.

[springfieldxds 0]

Found it sorry

[Albanian 121]

Destroyed all my magazines bigger than 10 rounds in anticipation of this law already.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Get ready for a million posts about losing mags in a boating accident....unoriginal

[Duppie 73]

Get ready for a million posts about losing mags in a boating accident....unoriginal

I was thinking the same thing.....and of course the keyboard patriots with their "Molon Labe".

[bhunted 887]

Get ready for a million posts about losing mags in a boating accident....unoriginal

There is another thread where I mentioned that stupid analogy.

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

[voyager9 3,434]

What is melon lube? Is that a new CLP?

[bhunted 887]

What is melon lube? Is that a new CLP?

Yea, ya squeeze a water melon rind and save the juice. Very slimey...

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

[JohnnyB 4,325]

I was thinking the same thing.....and of course the keyboard patriots with their "Molon Labe".

Many are willing to put their money where their mouth is but only a select few, say around 3 percent have made the hard decision to possibly give their lives

to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic! An oath I swore when I joined the U.S. Armed Forces.

 

I was never told on separation from the military that I was no longer to be held to that oath! Until I am told otherwise, I will uphold that oath as I am still bound by it.

 

MOΛΩN ΛΑBE may be used by some keyboard patriots but don't ever think that some TRUE patriots don't exist!!!

 

Moral of the story,  MOΛΩN ΛΑBE may be used by some as a punchline,  but there are those of us who believe it should be our battle cry on this forum.

At any rate, I think it's unfair to resort to name calling upon fellow members of this forum who share our beliefs and are here to help our cause!

 

 

P.S. I am NOT a keyboard patriot and I don't own a tinfoil hat! 

[Norseman 2]

Many are willing to put their money where their mouth is but only a select few, say around 3 percent have made the hard decision to possibly give their lives

to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic! An oath I swore when I joined the U.S. Armed Forces.

 

I was never told on separation from the military that I was no longer to be held to that oath! Until I am told otherwise, I will uphold that oath as I am still bound by it.

 

MOΛΩN ΛΑBE may be used by some keyboard patriots but don't ever think that some TRUE patriots don't exist!!!

 

Moral of the story, MOΛΩN ΛΑBE may be used by some as a punchline, but there are those of us who believe it should be our battle cry on this forum.

At any rate, I think it's unfair to resort to name calling upon fellow members of this forum who share our beliefs and are here to help our cause!

 

 

P.S. I am NOT a keyboard patriot and I don't own a tinfoil hat!

First: thank you for your service to our great nation.

 

Second: thanks for pointing out what MOΛΩN ΛΑBE means and why we say it since it seems several on this thread do not know, understand and believe in it's meaning. I suspect the guys knocking the slogan will be the first to hand over whatever is asked of them.

 

Why aren't we all crying out? Why can't we - especially here on this forum - be a united front?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duppie 73]

First: thank you for your service to our great nation.

 

Second: thanks for pointing out what MOΛΩN ΛΑBE means and why we say it since it seems several on this thread do not know, understand and believe in it's meaning. I suspect the guys knocking the slogan will be the first to hand over whatever is asked of them.

 

Why aren't we all crying out? Why can't we - especially here on this forum - be a united front?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice return and since you know a little of my heritage perhaps fitting....but I can assure you I'm keeping my mags not so much due to patriotism and some overused cliche off the back of a tee shirt but just plain, old fashion thrift.   And just for the record,I generally do not board any boat with expensive and hard to source 15 round mags.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

This was posted by Double Cheese on another thread:

 

"I don’t understand Lou Greenwald’s “logic”.  He’s stated before that he wants the 10 round limit because it just may “...save one life.”  He tweeted this on Jan 24^th:

 

“.@MuttonChopsRock In Tucson, shooter tackled when reloading. Bullet #13 killed a 9 y/o girl. 10 round limit might have saved her”

 

If he’s so interested in saving “just one life”, what about the first 10 rounds?  What about people killed by the first 10 rounds?  Are they not important?  Only after 10 rounds have been fired we should start caring about people’s lives?  If we were to follow his flawed logic, we should just go to ZERO rounds because it may just save one life. 

I’d really like to see him skip the 10 round BS and just cut to the chase:

“I support the Second Amendment, but I just don’t think you should be able to have bullets.”  That’s where they’re going with this. "

 

I think that's a brilliant argument, the best I've seen, as it cuts to the heart of the intent of our legislature, and fully exposes their hypocrisy.  In fact, perhaps we should DEMAND that they go to 0 round mag limits, to save lives.  Then they would have 0 chance of withstanding a court challenge to their failed law.

[Malsua 1,422]

Part of the argument is wrong.

 

The shooter was not tackled during a reload, he was tackled during a jam.   

[dougd60 1]

Not all Democrats are on board with Deal.  Here is the Email I sent to Sen. Jeff Van Drew and his response I received this evening below it.  As usual we can count this Senator and Assemblyman Sgt. Bob Andrzejczak on our side.  I am going to contact our other assemblyman Republican Sam Fiocchi. I am reasonably sure Sam will vote no.

 

Dear Senator Van Drew,

 

In the past you have promised not to vote for any reactionary useless gun laws.  I don’t believe that you would include yourself in this deal to reduce magazine capacity to 10 rounds. http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/02/deal_in_place_to_cut_ammo_magazine_limit_to_10_rounds.html#incart_river

The supposed Gun Rights members gave up 5 rounds for a language change/ clarification?  That’s nonsense.  The transport law was draconian to begin with and should be changed anyway.

Jeff, I hope I can count on you  to continue to fight for the responsible law abiding gun owners in NJ and do everything you can to prevent this bill from passing and urge your fellow colleagues in the Senate and Assembly to 

No also.  If they want to help save a life,  enforce the laws you have and increase and make mandatory prison terms for those who commit a crime with a gun. Don’t allow prosecutors to deal down, force them to do their jobs

and convict these animals.

 

Thank you for listening and support for NJ Gun owners.

 

Sincerely,

xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

His Reply:

 

I agree with you and have nothing to do with this deal. I will be voting NO and speaking out against this legislation as will Assemblyman Sgt. Andrzejczak.

 

Thanks,

Jeff Van Drew

 

If anyone wants to know about Assemblyman Sgt. Bob Andrzejczak he is a Decorated Veteran of two tours in Iraq, losing his left leg to a roadside grenade attack. You can see him tell his story here.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNkMdXC95N8

[JohnnyB 4,325]

I give up with the infighting.

 

PS. They don't make Pampers in my size!

[kwadz 11]

Ok, so here's an honest question.  If they limit us to 10 round mags and so 15 rounders are now illegal, then what's the difference in punishment between getting caught with a 15 or 30 round mag?  I would think that one who refused to comply might as well obtain 30 round mags, if the punishment is the same as getting caught with a 15 round mag.  I couldn't find anything that stated that 30 was any MORE illegal than 15 per the bill.  Just a thought...

[Malsua 1,422]

Ok, so here's an honest question.  If they limit us to 10 round mags and so 15 rounders are now illegal, then what's the difference in punishment between getting caught with a 15 or 30 round mag?  I would think that one who refused to comply might as well obtain 30 round mags, if the punishment is the same as getting caught with a 15 round mag.  I couldn't find anything that stated that 30 was any MORE illegal than 15 per the bill.  Just a thought...

 

The only difference would be that in the short term a prosecutor may decline to prosecute because you were a hapless victim of a changing legal landscape.  They could look like a good guy by giving you a pass since you might have been unaware of the law.   A 30 rounder would be indefensible.

 

That said, 5 years on, there would be no difference.

[kwadz 11]

The only difference would be that in the short term a prosecutor may decline to prosecute because you were a hapless victim of a changing legal landscape.  They could look like a good guy by giving you a pass since you might have been unaware of the law.   A 30 rounder would be indefensible.

 

That said, 5 years on, there would be no difference.

 

I think that's a fair analysis.  Thank you for that response.  I guess it all depends on your prosecutor.  For those who live in Camden County, they would probably jump at the opportunity to prosecute a gun owner for forgetting to tie his shoe laces.  But a good lawyer could probably convince a jury that it was due to ignorance and not malicious. 

[kwadz 11]

I just realized something.  This bill does not exempt tubular magazines, does it?  Does this mean that a rifle like a Marlin 60, pinned down to x (10<x<15) rounds, would now be illegal?

[PK90 3,570]

What bill?

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.