If you use your gun this is what you're up against.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Ok, so the perp was climbing out window.

 

Which side of the window was she on? Sounds to me like she was outside her home.

 

Maybe she was between this mope and his freedom. Maybe he put his hand in his pocket and said to her "Move out of my way or I am going to kill you".

 

See, the thing is once she got out of her car we don't know what happend

 

That said, if this guy was armed with a firearm the headline could have been much different.

 

I agree with Sig226guyNJ:

So you think it was wise of her to not only go home during the burglary, but to get out of the safety of her car and confront the scumbag? Any danger she might have been in, she brought upon herself by exiting the safety of her vehicle and approaching the pos who was exiting her home. I'm not saying the kid didn't deserve what he got.

In my mind the right answer was for her to drive away - not in order to avoid shooting this kid - stupid games/stupid prizes and all - but for her safety. She put herself in harms way. I would be pissed off if my wife/sister/mother drove home, saw a bad guy climbing out the window and got out and tried to stop him.

 

Does Castle Doctrine/SYG include driving home from another location to defend your property? I always assumed (possibly incorrectly) that Castle/SYG had an element of immediacy to it - if you didn't do something RIGHT NOW you were in danger of death or serious bodily injury - not, my house alarm is going off, I'm going to drive home and investigate. If someone is inside I will purposefully put myself in harms way so I can use deadly force.

 

I don't know...

 

If her kids were inside, that's another story.

[mipafox 438]

With that attitude you actually may be a good fit for NJ.

 

Isn't it odd how Jersey looks worse from a distance?

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

Wow!

 

We got everything from "Goody Two Shoes" to "she shouldn't have gone home" (I'm paraphrasing).

 

Florida isn't NJ.  So you can't take NJ right to cower law and apply it to Florida.  You steal shit in Florida, you get SHOT!  There's no room for NJ Pussies is Florida.  Hell you'll bring an INFECTION down there, lol!

 

None of us was there.  We don't know what transpired for the "confrontation".  I'm not ready to say the homeowner did ANYTHING wrong.  And two pages of "What-Ifs" is great for Keyboard Commandos that would piss their pants if put in the same situation.

 

I love how now people like me are called pussies because we are actually using our head to fully look at all aspects of this scenario. The ones who automatically call this a good shoot without any of the facts are just as bad as the anti gun libs who automatically blame all gun owners for the actions of a few. And as you just said, none of us were there and don't know what happened, yet I and only a few others are the only ones saying we can't tell whether this was a good shoot or not until all the facts are presented. In return, we get called pussies.  All I said was, that there are not enough facts to tell us if this shooting was justified or not. I also asked, what type of confrontation took place? If it was verbal, this is a bad shoot. If it was physical, it's justified in my eyes. This is what I said. But I'm a pussy for actually thinking. Sure, ok. I guess I'm a pussy then. And who are you referring to as keyboard commandos? The only keyboard commandos I see are the ones who are for killing anyone even if they are not a physical threat to them.

 

 

"Any danger she might have been in, she brought upon herself"

 

Ahh.... I've got a problem with that line of thinking. Any danger she found herself in was brought upon her by the guy robbing her home.

 

If she had never gone home or exited her car, she would not have been in any physical danger. That's one of the few facts we can gather from the information available. She was in no physical danger until she presented herself to the situation.

 

Here's the thing. Although I've never had to do this myself, it seems to me... If you are clearing your house with a firearm drawn...and you encounter an intruder... And that intruder approaches you.... The intruder is not just approaching you... He is approaching your firearm. Very possibly with the intent to seize it....and use it against you. That moment would be decision time. If you've identified the individual as an intruder and not a family member or other non-threat... And you have a clear shot... It might just be justified to take that shot before you lose control of your firearm.

 

Sure, if the BG is approaching you as you hold him at gun point, of course it's a justified shoot. However, if you walk in on someone standing in your living room with your tv in his hands, at this very moment, how is he a threat to you? Good luck trying to convince a jury you needed to shoot someone who had a tv in his hands. Now, if he drops that tv and starts to approach you, yes, you'd have every right and reason to shoot the BG.

With all the shooting in Fla, why even notify the Police of the shooting.Using your unknown piece you can throw in the the alligator pond,

911 ,there`s a body in my driveway, send the police.

What happened ?

dont know, just came home and he was lying right there

know anyhing about the bullet holes

What bullet holes, like I said I just got home

 

Wow. Speechless.... Who needs enemies when people like you are on our side? People who make all gun owners look like what the libs say we are....

It also said "confrontation" between to 2.

Until more is revealed about the confrontation I will reserve my judgement.

Exactly! How can anyone say this was a good shoot or bad shoot without all the facts and evidence?

 

She was not inside the house - she was outside.  Climbing out the window and a confrontation could have been him approaching/attacking the homeowner.  Not running away by jumping out the window.  It doesn't sound like a shot in the back as they were fleeing.

 

Again - none of us were there so stop making presumptions.

The only ones who are making presumptions are the ones calling this a good shoot without all the facts.

 

Any danger she was, regardless of her motivation to return to HER HOME, was brought on by the invader.  Just because NJ has weak castle doctrine don't try and dilute the Florida stand our ground laws.  She had every right to immediately return home to defend her property.  

 

With that attitude you actually may be a good fit for NJ.  I love blaming the victim, did you agree he shouldn't have been shot because, as his cousin said, where he suppose to get his stuff?

 

Nobody is blaming the victim. Some are just questioning why she made a shitty situation worse by going home and exiting her vehicle to confront the homeowner. Being a gun owner doesn't make us vigilantes, something some of you think you are. Guns are a tool that is to be used as a last resort, not a first resort. I couldn't care less this scumbag lost his life. At least now he won't be a drain to the system. But no one can tell whether this shoot was justified or not based on the little facts that are presented now.

[Rob0115 1,105]

I love how now people like me are called pussies because we are actually using our head to fully look at all aspects of this scenario. The ones who automatically call this a good shoot without any of the facts are just as bad as the anti gun libs who automatically blame all gun owners for the actions of a few. And as you just said, none of us were there and don't know what happened, yet I and only a few others are the only ones saying we can't tell whether this was a good shoot or not until all the facts are presented. In return, we get called pussies.  All I said was, that there are not enough facts to tell us if this shooting was justified or not. I also asked, what type of confrontation took place? If it was verbal, this is a bad shoot. If it was physical, it's justified in my eyes. This is what I said. But I'm a pussy for actually thinking. Sure, ok. I guess I'm a pussy then. And who are you referring to as keyboard commandos? The only keyboard commandos I see are the ones who are for killing anyone even if they are not a physical threat to them.

 

 

 

If she had never gone home or exited her car, she would not have been in any physical danger. That's one of the few facts we can gather from the information available. She was in no physical danger until she presented herself to the situation.

 

 

Sure, if the BG is approaching you as you hold him at gun point, of course it's a justified shoot. However, if you walk in on someone standing in your living room with your tv in his hands, at this very moment, how is he a threat to you? Good luck trying to convince a jury you needed to shoot someone who had a tv in his hands. Now, if he drops that tv and starts to approach you, yes, you'd have every right and reason to shoot the BG.

 

Wow. Speechless.... Who needs enemies when people like you are on our side? People who make all gun owners look like what the libs say we are....

Exactly! How can anyone say this was a good shoot or bad shoot without all the facts and evidence?

 

The only ones who are making presumptions are the ones calling this a good shoot without all the facts.

 

 

Nobody is blaming the victim. Some are just questioning why she made a shitty situation worse by going home and exiting her vehicle to confront the homeowner. Being a gun owner doesn't make us vigilantes, something some of you think you are. Guns are a tool that is to be used as a last resort, not a first resort. I couldn't care less this scumbag lost his life. At least now he won't be a drain to the system. But no one can tell whether this shoot was justified or not based on the little facts that are presented now.

 

You're hardly a vigilante when protecting your own propter.  You have a typo as she IS the homeowner and he WAS the perp.  So far there have been no charges filed.  Here's a general rule, if you break into a house you will get shot.  

[Krdshrk 3,877]

 

The only ones who are making presumptions are the ones calling this a good shoot without all the facts.

 

 

That's up for the courts to decide.  

 

 

Back at the scene of the break-in, crime scene detectives and homicide investigators spent hours picking up every piece of evidence they could find. Police said the homeowner has been cooperative throughout the investigation. Officials worked through the night and into the morning on this case and checking out her story. As of Friday afternoon, officials have confirmed that her story checks out.

http://www.wsvn.com/story/31443550/teen-shot-dead-after-confrontation-with-homeowner-during-suspected-burglary

 

 

 

Note, FL state law does state that “unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.”

 

 

“A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony,” according to state law. “A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.”

 

We all know that in NJ this would have never happened - the Woman would be in jail for several charges.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

[PK90 3,570]

 

 

... Here's a general rule, if you break into a house you will get shot.

+10000000000

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

[djg0770 481]

The circumstances are weird, however I will NOT engage in any victim blaming.  This guy is was a shitbag with priors.  He knew EXACTLY what he was doing.  After the GZ/TM incident in FL a few years ago, you have to be a special kind of stupid to continue to engage in this risky behavior.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  And frankly "we the people" won because we have one less shitbag in the system to deal with/support for the next 40 years.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

You're hardly a vigilante when protecting your own propter.  You have a typo as she IS the homeowner and he WAS the perp.  So far there have been no charges filed.  Here's a general rule, if you break into a house you will get shot.  

 

No typo. I know SHE is the homeowner, and HE is the scumbag. Read my post carefully. I'm saying the female homeowner was a victim of a burglary.

That's up for the courts to decide.  

 

 

http://www.wsvn.com/story/31443550/teen-shot-dead-after-confrontation-with-homeowner-during-suspected-burglary

 

 

 

Note, FL state law does state that “unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.”

 

 

 

We all know that in NJ this would have never happened - the Woman would be in jail for several charges.

 

I won't be surprised if they do file charges against her. But something doesn't add up if this article is presenting actual truth. She was alerted to a break in at her home presumably via a remote alarm. Cops were notified, and she went home while cops are en route. When she gets home, she observes BG trying to enter her home. Was the scumbag just that slow at breaking in, or was she just around the block? The article also states that she entered her home after the bad guy and searched her home room by room. IF, and that's a big IF, the prosecution wants to pursue charges, they can argue that she was in no physical harm and should not have entered her home. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the legalities of her following the perp into her home, tactically, it was not the wise thing to do. We are not cops. Our main job in a situation like this is to preserve our own lives or other innocent life. Having said that, if she had loved ones inside, it's a completely different ballgame and she did the right thing.

[weekend_junkie 129]

And there is the goalpost move. You stated you can defend property with deadly force (in the context of conversation about people shooting someone running away with a tv) and now you have shifted it to the presumption that someone in your house is putting you at risk. No shit, that is self defense, not defense of property.

Sure, and here's the punt: I was just offering to pull relevant text.

 

But I'll pitch this up for thought:

What's the reason behind use of deadly force in various property scenarios? Is it that the aggressor is seeking to harm you or implies the threat of harm? I'd contest that any crime against property is a threat of a crime against your person. I have no further opinion on how NJ's law is applied or interpreted.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

There are conflicting reports as to what happened - if she did search or not.  I don't know.

 

I will wait to see what happens with the FL AG.

 

The kid was no angel though.  Did he deserve what he got?  Maybe, maybe not.  I don't see Obama calling him the son he never had though.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

No sympathy. 1 less scum bag.

 

I'm tired of people defending these idiots.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

Sure, and here's the punt: I was just offering to pull relevant text.

 

But I'll pitch this up for thought:

What's the reason behind use of deadly force in various property scenarios? Is it that the aggressor is seeking to harm you or implies the threat of harm? I'd contest that any crime against property is a threat of a crime against your person. I have no further opinion on how NJ's law is applied or interpreted.

How is a threat against your property a threat against your person? This literally makes no sense as property and your person are two different entities.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

There are conflicting reports as to what happened - if she did search or not.  I don't know.

 

I will wait to see what happens with the FL AG.

 

The kid was no angel though.  Did he deserve what he got?  Maybe, maybe not.  I don't see Obama calling him the son he never had though.

I'm just going based on the article you posted which stated she went room to room.

 

No sympathy. 1 less scum bag.

 

I'm tired of people defending these idiots.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkld i

Who is defending the perp? I don't see anyone here defending him.

[Rob0115 1,105]

No typo. I know SHE is the homeowner, and HE is the scumbag. Read my post carefully. I'm saying the female homeowner was a victim of a burglary.

 

I wasn't trying to be antagonistic but this is what you wrote. This I assumed typo or just a mistake.

 

Nobody is blaming the victim. Some are just questioning why she made a shitty situation worse by going home and exiting her vehicle to confront the homeowner

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

I wasn't trying to be antagonistic but this is what you wrote. This I assumed typo or just a mistake.

 

Nobody is blaming the victim. Some are just questioning why she made a shitty situation worse by going home and exiting her vehicle to confront the homeowner

I don't think you are being antagonistic. As for the post, perhaps my wording was a bit confusing. Someone accused me of blaming the homeowner, and I was saying that I'm not blaming the victim (homeowner). Some, (me) are just questioning why she made a shitty situation worse by confronting the scumbag.

[djg0770 481]

I don't think you are being antagonistic. As for the post, perhaps my wording was a bit confusing. Someone accused me of blaming the homeowner, and I was saying that I'm not blaming the victim (homeowner). Some, (me) are just questioning why she made a shitty situation worse by confronting the scumbag.

 

Cause she was sick of getting her stuff stolen?????  Cause she beat the cops there?????  Probably NOT the first time she has dealt with this.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

  Probably NOT the first time she has dealt with this.

 

Yes - according to reports she had been burglarized recently.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

Cause she was sick of getting her stuff stolen?????  Cause she beat the cops there?????  Probably NOT the first time she has dealt with this.

 

Being "sick of getting her stuff stolen" does not give her the right to kill anyone. If however she was physically attacked, of course she has a right to defend herself, but that still doesn't erase the fact that she made a mistake by confronting the POS. I'm not saying she committed a criminal act by going home and getting out of her car to go "room to room" in her home, but it wasn't the smart thing to do. In fact, it was pretty stupid of her to do that. I would think any reasonably thinking person would agree with that.

 

The problem I see in this thread is that some of you guys are letting your emotions get the best of you. I know we are sick and tired of criminals running rampant in this country. We are sick of the libs continually trying to take away our rights and promoting dependency on government. We are sick of the people who take advantage of hard working tax payers money by stealing from the system. But just because we are sick of shit like that, does not mean that we should throw all of our critical thinking skills away and let our emotions dictate how we feel. If I let my emotions decide whether this shooting was justified or not, I'd probably be saying the same thing you guys are saying. But that would make me no better than the libs who stand on the graves of dead children and use them to push their anti gun agenda. Don't be like a lib who can't think for themselves and just spouts off the same bullshit talking points that media brainwashes them into thinking.

 

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here guys. I'm just saying that nothing in life is black and white. There is no possible way that anyone can call this a good shoot or not with the little amount of information we have available to us. And some of the things I read in here can be used by the libs to further their agenda. Can you imagine a neutral person reading this thread? By the end of it, based on some of the comments here, they would probably have a negative view on gun owners.

 

And with that, I think I've said all I have to say on this. We can agree to disagree, but the fact remains, none of us know what really happened that day to be able to dictate whether or not the shoot was good or not. Thanks for the discussion guys.

[silverado427 10,730]

+10000000000

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

 

I like that rule.  

[weekend_junkie 129]

How is a threat against your property a threat against your person? This literally makes no sense as property and your person are two different entities.

It's a leap, but see the TX purse snatch example above. I should really not opine further though...

[Zeke 5,504]

Thanks Shark for posting that update.

Wanna bet travon duex was the initial burglar that caused her to get the camera and alarms?

 

Looking cleaner to me

[Handyman 5,682]

The sister and cousin did not appear overwhelmed with grief.

 

They were probably more upset about losing the TV.

[Handyman 5,682]

Due to the lack of fireworks, I am guessing the homeowner was the same race as the perp.

 

As was said above, we need to create the impression that thievery is associated with a tremendous risk of death. Thieves will find another way to make a living, probably  by going into politics.

[djg0770 481]

Being "sick of getting her stuff stolen" does not give her the right to kill anyone..

 

This is where we differ.  My things are mine.  You want to come into my house and take them, I will meet your theft with deadly force.  You don't want to be met with deadly force?  THEN DON'T STEAL MY SHIT.

 

What is the appropriate level of force in your opinion?  Or should we just let said shitbag walk away with our possessions?

 

What if it wasn't her TV or laptop but instead was her other gun?  Does deadly force now apply because of WHAT he is stealing?

[fishnut 2,358]

Who else here is happy that Arthur Kill is not around for this thread?

[Kevin125 4,772]

Kevin, sorry to single you out, but in the hypothetical scenarios that you and others have presented, you completely ignore the fact that in the first 10 seconds of the video, the newscaster says, "Police say that she shot and killed the teenaged thief as he was climbing out her window."

 

If the perp is fleeing, and no longer a threat, neither I, nor the law, can see any justification for shooting him.

 

OGG.. No worries.  But yes, the point I was making was hypothetical and not specific to this story.  I wasn't ignoring the known details. I was making a different point.

 

But in Florida, it seems this is permitted.  It sure is in Texas.

[Kevin125 4,772]

Police Officers seem to think home owners shouldn't respond to burglaries.  I strongly disagree.  If I think I will be there first, I will go. If I'm unarmed, that changes what I would do when I arrive because I will always make the assumption that the thief is armed and will do anything to avoid getting caught.

 

But if there's a chance someone in my family is in the house or could arrive at the house while this is in progress, I want to get there as quickly as possible.  I won't be sitting on my hands.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Being "sick of getting her stuff stolen" does not give her the right to kill anyone. If however she was physically attacked, of course she has a right to defend herself, but that still doesn't erase the fact that she made a mistake by confronting the POS. I'm not saying she committed a criminal act by going home and getting out of her car to go "room to room" in her home, but it wasn't the smart thing to do. In fact, it was pretty stupid of her to do that. I would think any reasonably thinking person would agree with that.

 

The problem I see in this thread is that some of you guys are letting your emotions get the best of you. I know we are sick and tired of criminals running rampant in this country. We are sick of the libs continually trying to take away our rights and promoting dependency on government. We are sick of the people who take advantage of hard working tax payers money by stealing from the system. But just because we are sick of shit like that, does not mean that we should throw all of our critical thinking skills away and let our emotions dictate how we feel. If I let my emotions decide whether this shooting was justified or not, I'd probably be saying the same thing you guys are saying. But that would make me no better than the libs who stand on the graves of dead children and use them to push their anti gun agenda. Don't be like a lib who can't think for themselves and just spouts off the same bullshit talking points that media brainwashes them into thinking.

 

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here guys. I'm just saying that nothing in life is black and white. There is no possible way that anyone can call this a good shoot or not with the little amount of information we have available to us. And some of the things I read in here can be used by the libs to further their agenda. Can you imagine a neutral person reading this thread? By the end of it, based on some of the comments here, they would probably have a negative view on gun owners.

 

And with that, I think I've said all I have to say on this. We can agree to disagree, but the fact remains, none of us know what really happened that day to be able to dictate whether or not the shoot was good or not. Thanks for the discussion guys.

 

I'm so sorry.  Would you please dismount from your HIGH HORSE?

 

This didn't happen in Jersey, so why are we being subjected to this "line of questioning" (without every fact known) and asked to think or quote or answer your cross-examination while applying Jersey law?

 

NEWSFLASH:  FLORIDA ISN'T NEW JERSEY!

 

Enough of the Goody-Two-Shoes BULLSHIT!  Frankly, given the same set of circumstances, together with my superior gun handling skills and over 45 years of experience, and being tired of having my shit stolen by hoodrats, I most probably would have done the same thing.  Florida is a BIG place.  You can drive 12 hours and not leave the state.  The PoPo aren't just around the corner at the donut shop.  Free Americans are tired of being told what to do, how to think, what to say, how to feel, when to COWER, etc.

 

"Play STUPID Games, win STUPID Prizes" fits the Bill.  She fired once or twice in fear of losing her life and her possessions (which is perfectly LEGAL in the Free State of Florida).  She didn't execute the Perp with a mag dump and a reload and another mag dump.  So far her story checks-out.  I (tentatively) applaud her actions and would like to take her out for a drink!  

[Redlines 202]

Mabey a little 12 gauge rock salt in the ass would be better. Just like the farmers used to use.