DIY build with DIY pin and weld?

[gabonk 13]

I'm an AR noob.

 

I plan on doing my first easy cheap buid by buying a complete kit, leaning towards one of the multiple sub $400 kit options from palmetto. 

 

Pinning the stock, no problem. Cuting off bayo lug, no problem.

 

What I have noticed on this site is that with most of the DIY builds it seems like most people are sending out their barrels to get their compensators or muzzle brakes pinned and welded by others. I assume this is becasue most people cant weld? Or is there something I am missing or should be looking out for?

 

While we are at. I have searched the site for compensators with flashhider characteristics. That are NJ legal. Eveyrything I see discussed is $100 and up aftermarket. Are their full kits that come with compensators instead of flash hiders in the same price range? This way I can just drill, pin and weld what comes with it?

 

Or since I do have a separate shop from my house and can keep the kits at my shop and lowers at my house till I get the compliance work is done. I could sell the cheap one that come with kit and use it to offset something else?

[mikeyjones 88]

Feel free to do the welding yourself as long as its permanent. Most people probably aren't set up with a drill press and tig capabilities.

 

There are plenty of options sub 50 for muzzle brakes. Look at some yhm offerings and the dpms miculek.

 

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[Displaced Texan 11,779]

I have been using these on my 14.5" carbines: https://store.ar15.com/product.html?cat=108&pr=650

 

Cheap. Fairly effective for my purposes.

[fishnut 2,358]

Feel free to do the welding yourself as long as its permanent. Most people probably aren't set up with a drill press and tig capabilities.

 

There are plenty of options sub 50 for muzzle brakes. Look at some yhm offerings and the dpms miculek.

 

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not to hijack this thread but I can mig and tig but I only have a mig welder at home. Is there any reason why I should not use a mig?

[mikeyjones 88]

not to hijack this thread but I can mig and tig but I only have a mig welder at home. Is there any reason why I should not use a mig?

Probably can. It's not like you're drawing a bead around the whole barrel. Just need a tiny spot to hold a pin in place.

 

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[Rob0115 1,107]

I would think MIG is fine. It's faster and puts less heat into the target metal. Be careful not to melt the pin either way.

[gabonk 13]

not to hijack this thread but I can mig and tig but I only have a mig welder at home. Is there any reason why I should not use a mig?

All good man,the more info learned the better. 

[DeletePLS 178]

unless the barrel is under 16 inches no reason at all to weld, just press fit a pin in there and be done with it

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I would think MIG is fine. It's faster and puts less heat into the target metal. Be careful not to melt the pin either way.

It was my understanding that it's easier to control the heat with a TIG. I was under the impression a MIG weld, if not careful, would over heat the material. for the purpose of tacking the pin, I think it's moot if you know what ur doing.

[gabonk 13]

unless the barrel is under 16 inches no reason at all to weld, just press fit a pin in there and be done with it

Hmm looks like I got more reading/research to do. I did not know that. Pin only would be great. Leaves more options for reconfiguring and sellability.

[fishnut 2,358]

Cool,thanks guys I figured mig would not make a difference but it can't hurt to ask.

[bhunted 887]

unless the barrel is under 16 inches no reason at all to weld, just press fit a pin in there and be done with it

Ettt! Incorrect. Needs to be pinned and welded, welded about half around or silver soldered.

[Fred2 367]

Not wanting to turn the Paranoid knob up to 11, but I thought possession of a non compliant rifle for an individual was illegal.

I thought they would only be legal in the hands of a FFL holder.

Am I missing something here?

[fishnut 2,358]

Not wanting to turn the Paranoid knob up to 11, but I thought possession of a non compliant rifle for an individual was illegal.

I thought they would only be legal in the hands of a FFL holder.

Am I missing something here?

nothing wrong with possession of a non compliant upper as long as you don't have a lower

[gabonk 13]

I preordered multiple lowers to pick up in about 3 weeks when my next P2P is elgible for the 31 day window. So I do not have lowers yet but will have them at my home before I buy the rifle kits. I was going to have the kits shipped to my shop which is located 25+ miles away from my home. Was going to do the comliance work at my shop then bring home to mate to receiver.

[gabonk 13]

My understanding was the problem occurs only when you mate the lower with pistol grip and/or adjustable stock with a non compliant suppressor and or bayonet lug. Or if I had the indivudal components unassmebled but located in same location which would be considered intent. As a standalone it is a non issue, especially at different physical locations? If it makes any difference the kit would not be sitting around upon delivery. It will have the work done the day it arrives,if not the next day.

[SmittyMHS 603]

Dial it down a few notches unless the black helicopters are circling your house. lol

I know you can use silver solder, but IMO you need too much heat too long for it to flow. (retired HVAC tech here, done alotta soldering) I've done 3 compensaters so far and only tiged mine. If I was gonna MIG it I think I'd counter sink the hole in the comp. 1st. Kinda hard to do a 1/8" spot.

Oh.. They hovered a bit... never landed.

[bhunted 887]

Dial it down a few notches unless the black helicopters are circling your house. lol

I know you can use silver solder, but IMO you need too much heat too long for it to flow. (retired HVAC tech here, done alotta soldering) I've done 3 compensaters so far and only tiged mine. If I was gonna MIG it I think I'd counter sink the hole in the comp. 1st. Kinda hard to do a 1/8" spot.

Oh.. They hovered a bit... never landed.

Never said to use silver, just gave 3 options as outlined in the books.

[SmittyMHS 603]

Never said to use silver, just gave 3 options as outlined in the books.

Never said you did, just giving my opinion on using it. I wouldn't want someone to get a Burns-o-Matic at Home Depot thinking they can do it since they installed their hot water heater last week.

Silver Solder doesn't start to melt till over 1200 degs. Its not "soldering" its really brazing. 

[carl_g 568]

Ettt! Incorrect. Needs to be pinned and welded, welded about half around or silver soldered.

Show me where that the law explicitly states this.

[jeff47 30]

I think it only needs to be blind pinned, not necessarily pinned and welded. I silver soldered one of mine with a MAP gas torch from Home Depot.

[bhunted 887]

Show me where that the law explicitly states this.

Look it up on the ATF site. Its been said 1000's of times in this forum. What makes it change now?

[maintenanceguy 510]

NJ law is silent on how a muzzle brake is attached to the barrel.  AFT rules say welded or silver soldered.   That's rule is to bring a less than 16" barrel up to the required 16".    In NJ, if you are adding a muzzle brake to a barrel longer than 16", I don't think there is a rule.  Long standing tradition and folk knowledge is that it needs to be welded or silver soldered (brazed) as per the ATF rules for short barrels.

 

Sort of the same thing for pinning adjustable stocks.  The NJ law doesn't tell you how to do it.  There are accepted methods but who know if some other method is just as valid?

 

I don't know what the police, prosecutor, judge, and jury would say.

[bhunted 887]

NJ law is silent on how a muzzle brake is attached to the barrel. AFT rules say welded or silver soldered. That's rule is to bring a less than 16" barrel up to the required 16". In NJ, if you are adding a muzzle brake to a barrel longer than 16", I don't think there is a rule. Long standing tradition and folk knowledge is that it needs to be welded or silver soldered (brazed) as per the ATF rules for short barrels.

 

Sort of the same thing for pinning adjustable stocks. The NJ law doesn't tell you how to do it. There are accepted methods but who know if some other method is just as valid?

 

I don't know what the police, prosecutor, judge, and jury would say.

The pinning of the barrel is not really a barrel length problem. Its an evil feature problem coupled with a threaded barrel. Bolt actions would be different but essentially, they don't want flash suppressors or anything threaded allowing a silencer/suppressor to be screwed on.

Basically, they followed ATF line of thinking.

 

To others, hey, ya wanna challenge it, do whatever way you want.

There are plenty of threads here discussing this.

[carl_g 568]

Look it up on the ATF site. Its been said 1000's of times in this forum. What makes it change now?

the ATF ruling pertains to NFA compliance not the NJ "Assault Weapon" ban

[PK90 3,573]

NO WELDING IS NEEDED.

 

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[bhunted 887]

NO WELDING IS NEEDED.

 

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I've never, ever seen a pinned brake not tack welded. So do whatever.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Bhunted isn't wrong but isn't right either. NJ says permenant, that's it. ATFs defintions of permantent is outlined only because of the NFA situation, other wise they wouldn't bother to clarify what they think is permanent. Using the ATF definition provides you with no questionable methods, while any other method certainly would need to be determined by a court of it is indeed permantent. With a 14.5 in barrel and shorter you must use their method, anything longer and you need to prove it meets NJs defintions of permanent if you don't use the atfs methods.

[PK90 3,573]

Bhunted isn't wrong but isn't right either. NJ says permenant, that's it. ATFs defintions of permantent is outlined only because of the NFA situation, other wise they wouldn't bother to clarify what they think is permanent. Using the ATF definition provides you with no questionable methods, while any other method certainly would need to be determined by a court of it is indeed permantent. With a 14.5 in barrel and shorter you must use their method, anything longer and you need to prove it meets NJs defintions of permanent if you don't use the atfs methods.

Where do they or does it say that?

 

There is no definition or guidance in NJ for attaching muzzle devices, or to what is classified as a flash suppressor. The only guideline that exists is "A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor" can not be used on a semi-auto rifle that has a detachable mag and that has a pistol grip. Like a stock that can not fold or collapse, it can be temporary. The only "permanency" statement within the laws pertains to magazines. I only spot weld over the pin to hold it in. A weld is not required.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Sorry, it's defacto. I wasn't clear with that. The only way to have a barrel without threads is if something is permantently attached to it. Correct, NJ doesn't define permanent, which is why you need to prove what ever is attached can't be removed, or will destroy the threads if attempted.