45Doll 5,877 Posted December 11, 2018 I was in PA last weekend converting my 15-round Hexmags to 30 by removing the 15-round mag spring and spacer block and installing a 30-round spring. Took about a minute a mag. (Someone pointed this out in another thread.) Then it dawned on me: since I could convert them, while they were 15-rounds from the factory, they were not 'permanently' modified. So they would have been illegal in NJ. I have also seen Hexmag 10-round mags, and as delivered from the factory they are not permanently modified either. You can swap the spring out for another. So they would be illegal here as well. Anyone have evidence to the contrary? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjhvn 3 Posted December 11, 2018 I was in PA last weekend converting my 15-round Hexmags to 30 by removing the 15-round mag spring and spacer block and installing a 30-round spring. Took about a minute a mag. (Someone pointed this out in another thread.) Then it dawned on me: since I could convert them, while they were 15-rounds from the factory, they were not 'permanently' modified. So they would have been illegal in NJ. I have also seen Hexmag 10-round mags, and as delivered from the factory they are not permanently modified either. You can swap the spring out for another. So they would be illegal here as well. Anyone have evidence to the contrary?If you don't have the parts to make your magazines +10 round then really are you breaking the law. Practically all gun shops and ranges sell hexamags so I'm thinking they are legal especially since CA thinks they are fine.Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted December 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, 45Doll said: I was in PA last weekend converting my 15-round Hexmags to 30 by removing the 15-round mag spring and spacer block and installing a 30-round spring. Took about a minute a mag. (Someone pointed this out in another thread.) Then it dawned on me: since I could convert them, while they were 15-rounds from the factory, they were not 'permanently' modified. So they would have been illegal in NJ. I have also seen Hexmag 10-round mags, and as delivered from the factory they are not permanently modified either. You can swap the spring out for another. So they would be illegal here as well. Anyone have evidence to the contrary? So this is the crux of the problem.... What is "permanently modified"? While experienced gun folks can easily modify a mag, the majority of gun people are never going to open up a magazine. And if from the factory it says 10 rounds... who is going to argue otherwise? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted December 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, Maksim said: So this is the crux of the problem.... What is "permanently modified"? That's what I thought. And Hexmags are readily modifiable, as I demonstrated in PA. Yes, if I don't have the 30-round spring then constructive intent can't be shown. But that doesn't make a Hexmag 'permanent'. For those of you who think the horse has been beaten to death, so be it. I'll shut up now. Do as you like. I know I will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 957 Posted December 11, 2018 Factory mags (example Hexmag 10 or 15rd) do not have to be 'permanent" from the factory. Only when you are modifying a mag to make it NJ compliant (Example: Taking a factory 15rd mags and blocking it to 10rds) - them the "modification is supposed to be permanent. Factory mags are not required to be sealed, or modified unless they are being converted to NJ compliant.......... 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kawi7 52 Posted December 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said: Factory mags (example Hexmag 10 or 15rd) do not have to be 'permanent" from the factory. Only when you are modifying a mag to make it NJ compliant (Example: Taking a factory 15rd mags and blocking it to 10rds) - them the "modification mis supposed to be permanent. Factory mags are not required to be sealed, or modified unless they are being converted to NJ compliant.......... Does that go for just Hexmags because they have the short spring? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 957 Posted December 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Kawi7 said: Does that go for just Hexmags because they have the short spring? That goes for ANY factory mag, regardless.............. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuRrEaLNJ 294 Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, PK90 said: 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mossburger 406 Posted December 11, 2018 Hey while you're at it, just tuck it between your legs, put your hands in your armpits and cluck. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rufio.Weaponworks 57 Posted December 11, 2018 don't worry, your hexmags will break before that ever becomes an issue 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 11, 2018 Very sad. Disappointed and dismayed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 12, 2018 Btw I’d scrap the shorter springs. But is the block recycling grade? I get so confused with that stuff.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted December 12, 2018 love my hexmags, never ever once did I have a problem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, myhatinthering said: love my hexmags, never ever once did I have a problem Apparently the are a free peoples LEGO . and totally joisey legal 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rufio.Weaponworks 57 Posted December 12, 2018 no, fuck hexmag. They are shitty, even if it means you can take them apart easily. Stick with Magpul, Lancer, and GI mags. I got pinned 10 round lancer mags for my AR's, they're legit. not sure if it was GunMag Warehouse or someone else who pins for them, but they're great, they're marked in increments of 10 rounds and there's a bar that goes through the mag, you can still take them apart and replace the spring and follower if you ever needed to, but you have to finagle the spring from the bar to get it out and put it back in again. you just can't remove the bar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, Lord_Fudd said: no, fuck hexmag. They are shitty, even if it means you can take them apart easily. Stick with Magpul, Lancer, and GI mags. I got pinned 10 round lancer mags for my AR's, they're legit. not sure if it was GunMag Warehouse or someone else who pins for them, but they're great, they're marked in increments of 10 rounds and there's a bar that goes through the mag, you can still take them apart and replace the spring and follower if you ever needed to, but you have to finagle the spring from the bar to get it out and put it back in again. you just can't remove the bar. @45Doll apparently mag pulls can’t be legal either. Bro! You are better than this! Dammit! Jus better! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted December 12, 2018 OK, I do have to speak up once more. I brought this up just as an inquiry on the point of law as written; not a crusade or a tirade, or to form anyone's opinion. If you think this ignorant law should just be ignored, read no further. Compensators have to be welded or pinned to the barrel. They can't just be screwed on because you might replace it later with a flash hider. Fixed stocks have to be staked on, because you might just replace them later with an adjustable stock. If that is the NJ legislature's legal intent, Hexmag xx-30 bodies that can be modified in less than a minute from 10 or 15 rounds to 30 with a spring change don't fit it. If the law overlooks that, so much the better for us. If it sticks. I would like JT Custom to be right, because it would be a great sales point for Hexmag and a great advantage to have should the SHTF one day. In fact Hexmag's website has a specific invitation to NJ gun owners to get their 10 round mags there. And I like them. But if I have to shoot an intruder in my house one day with an AR I want the magazine to be beyond reproach and the reach of some over zealous NJ prosecutor. And I don't want to hear in court that the magazine I used was not 'permanently' modified, or fixed, at 10 rounds. I inspected a Hexmag 10/30 mag today, and there's nothing on the body to indicate it's a 10 round magazine as delivered. You don't know what it is until you open it and see the spring, and the polymer spacer if there is one. Nor was there any change in markings for the 15/30 mags I modified in PA last weekend. The only place a capacity of 10 or 15 is noted is on the plastic wrapper. If someone can point to statutory or administrative code that says that magazines with modifiable capacity are OK as long as they come from the factory configured legally, and with no discernible markings that say so, I'd like to read it. "If the rounds won't fit, you must acquit." 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kawi7 52 Posted December 12, 2018 54 minutes ago, 45Doll said: If someone can point to statutory or administrative code that says that magazines with modifiable capacity are OK as long as they come from the factory configured legally, and with no discernible markings that say so, I'd like to read it. One of the FFL’s should be able to answer that.. Doubt it’s in any statute or administrative code, more likely something sent to the FFL’s from the State Police Firearms Unit.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rufio.Weaponworks 57 Posted December 12, 2018 If you don’t have the parts to make it a 15 or 30 round magazine, then it’s not easily modifiable. If you have a vise and 2 hands (maybe not even a vise) your 15/30 or 10/30 P-Mags are easier to modify to large capacity than Hexmags are if you don’t have the parts. If you’re really that concerned about an over zealous prosecutor in the rarity you’re going to use your gun for home defense, then sell your guns, don’t be a fudd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,138 Posted December 12, 2018 37 minutes ago, Lord_Fudd said: If you don’t have the parts to make it a 15 or 30 round magazine, then it’s not easily modifiable. Don't be so sure about that. NJ is very clear about not wanting our evil features having tool free plug & play options. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rufio.Weaponworks 57 Posted December 12, 2018 Stop being stupid. If they weren’t compliant, stores wouldn’t be selling Hexmags for the past decade here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teufelhunden 6 Posted December 12, 2018 10 hours ago, 45Doll said: Fixed stocks have to be staked on, because you might just replace them later with an adjustable stock. I have never heard of this. Do you mean adjustable stocks need to be staked? 10 hours ago, 45Doll said: Compensators have to be welded or pinned to the barrel. They can't just be screwed on because you might replace it later with a flash hider. Fixed stocks have to be staked on, because you might just replace them later with an adjustable stock. If that is the NJ legislature's legal intent, Hexmag xx-30 bodies that can be modified in less than a minute from 10 or 15 rounds to 30 with a spring change don't fit it. If the law overlooks that, so much the better for us. If it sticks. Thousands of guns can be modified in less than a minute. Guns can have barrels swapped with barrels with silencers or flash hiders. Trigger packs on some guns can be swapped in seconds for full auto versions. How long does it take to swap out uppers? What if you own a single shot shotgun and a hacksaw? The NJ legislature is making laws on guns and they have no idea how guns even work. What if it takes more than a minute to modify a mag? What about more that an hour? A day? Where does it end? As far as the NJ legislature's intent, its to ban all guns. They are just boiling the water slowly so we comply. Its not our job to figure out what they "really" meant by a ban, only to follow the law as written. 10 hours ago, 45Doll said: If someone can point to statutory or administrative code that says that magazines with modifiable capacity are OK as long as they come from the factory configured legally, and with no discernible markings that say so, I'd like to read it. I think the issue is there is no law that says that a factory magazine has to be permanent. If you modify a mag it has to be permanent, but you are not modifying anything, you are buying a factory 10rd mag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myhatinthering 462 Posted December 12, 2018 think he means pinned. there is no requirement to stake a stock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EngineerJet 191 Posted December 12, 2018 I understand the need for clarification, but congratulations, you just realised how stupid and asinine these permanent requirements really are. The permanent requirement was written by a legislator who is likely ignorant of firearms and was writing feel-good requirements with no clear definition of finality. Anyone with any know-how can alter any magazine in any way shape or form. Thats just reality. So if you are asking how do you ensure 100% engineered magazine capacity that cant be altered, I can't offer your any solace. Better to not give these people anymore fuel to throw on their gun-grabbing fire. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fred2 367 Posted December 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, EngineerJet said: I understand the need for clarification, but congratulations, you just realised how stupid and asinine these permanent requirements really are. The permanent requirement was written by a legislator who is likely ignorant of firearms and was writing feel-good requirements with no clear definition of finality. Anyone with any know-how can alter any magazine in any way shape or form. Thats just reality. So if you are asking how do you ensure 100% engineered magazine capacity that cant be altered, I can't offer your any solace. Better to not give these people anymore fuel to throw on their gun-grabbing fire. It's my feeling that the people that write these laws don't even know which end of a screwdriver to hold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reloaderguy 30 Posted December 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Lord_Fudd said: Stop being stupid. If they weren’t compliant, stores wouldn’t be selling Hexmags for the past decade here. True. You could buy them at Heritage every day in NJ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexTheSane 236 Posted December 12, 2018 Why the focus on Hexmags? 15rd Glock 19 mags can be disassembled and a +2 floor plate and 17rd spring could be added. Same goes for any number of handgun magazines. The point is that they are built to accept X number of rounds. What you do with them afterwards is what would be breaking the law. There is nothing stopping you from taking a hacksaw to your shotgun. That doesn't make a shotgun inherently illegal. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted December 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, reloaderguy said: True. You could buy them at Heritage every day in NJ. The thing is... there have been plenty of times when FFLs sold things that were supposedly legal... which were later deemed illegal. In general... FFLs will sell what they think is legal, until they are told they are not. M1 Carbine clones were the last one I remember. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites