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Cemeterys Gun Blob

NJ A6003 - Require Insurance for Firearms ownership

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Well, here we go.

I just wonder why it took so long for a bill like this to be introduced.

Think the fudds will wake up?

https://legiscan.com/NJ/bill/A6003/2018?fbclid=IwAR300YwmEUeHwRGbwaSThSUNgS-IbAK5MoPbT_OliuhB-DrzZoJ5DvDgjGw

 

No person shall possess a firearm unless the person has first obtained a policy of firearm liability insurance in an amount of not less than $50,000, specifically covering any damages resulting from any negligent or willful acts involving the use of that firearm while it is owned by that person

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Doesn’t this get submitted every year?  While it might get more traction this year, in the past it hasn’t even made it out of the rubber-stamp committees.  
 

Of course it’s unconstitutional. But it will take 10 years and millions of dollars to prove it. 

10 minutes ago, Old Glock guy said:

Wait, I'm confused. Aren't these exactly the kind of policies that Murphy has banned, claiming that they are "murder insurance"?

Ding Ding ding. 

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1 hour ago, Old Glock guy said:

Wait, I'm confused. Aren't these exactly the kind of policies that Murphy has banned, claiming that they are "murder insurance"?

"de facto" doesn't come to mind?

 

 

On the other hand, owning a gun is a right still.. So if you cant afford it, will the government be providing this insurance?

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1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

Doesn’t this get submitted every year?  While it might get more traction this year, in the past it hasn’t even made it out of the rubber-stamp committees.  

Wouldn't put it past Murphy to force it along.

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9 hours ago, siderman said:

I'm sure some legislater(s) are involved with insurence so stay tuned for only "state approved" ins co's able to offer said mandated policys. That would be a typical NJ move.

Yeah... Donald Norcross. I'm sure it will be like when NJ car owners had limited options for insurance; uber expensive. 

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1 hour ago, Kevin125 said:

if they ever figure out how to make this happen..... and anyone is dumb enough to comply with this unconstitutional nonsense......

Didn't that already happen with 30 round mags, down to 15 round mags, down to 10 round mags (plus the other unconstitutional crap)?

1 hour ago, Kevin125 said:

it will amount to a registry.

If you have a FID card, you're already registered.

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6 hours ago, Sniper said:

Didn't that already happen with 30 round mags, down to 15 round mags, down to 10 round mags (plus the other unconstitutional crap)?

If you have a FID card, you're already registered.

Registered as a gun owner yes. But ins tends to get a bit more specific. Or should I say invasive, restrictive......

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10 hours ago, Kevin125 said:

Or.... if they ever figure out how to make this happen..... and anyone is dumb enough to comply with this unconstitutional nonsense......

it will amount to a registry.

There is already a registry

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21 hours ago, Cemeterys Gun Blob said:

Well, here we go.

I just wonder why it took so long for a bill like this to be introduced.

Think the fudds will wake up?

https://legiscan.com/NJ/bill/A6003/2018?fbclid=IwAR300YwmEUeHwRGbwaSThSUNgS-IbAK5MoPbT_OliuhB-DrzZoJ5DvDgjGw

 

No person shall possess a firearm unless the person has first obtained a policy of firearm liability insurance in an amount of not less than $50,000, specifically covering any damages resulting from any negligent or willful acts involving the use of that firearm while it is owned by that person

This has the potential to be a wake up call (like many before).  However, all the reps are in place to push this through.  When I think of a state that will vote elected officials out of office to get unconstitutional legislation revoked or changed, New Jersey is one of the least likely states for this to happen.  I would love to see it happen, I'm  just not holding my breath.

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3 hours ago, father-of-three said:

This has the potential to be a wake up call (like many before).  However, all the reps are in place to push this through.  When I think of a state that will vote elected officials out of office to get unconstitutional legislation revoked or changed, New Jersey is one of the least likely states for this to happen.  I would love to see it happen, I'm  just not holding my breath.

NJ is a liberal state. The majority of voters are liberal (sad but true). The reality for the foreseeable future's only options are get court cases above the state level or move. State politics are not going to change any time soon.

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I know that I am in the minority here on NJGF on this topic but I do believe that we should require ALL gun owners to have liability insurance.  I also think that they would be prudent to also invest in a personal property/articles insurance policy for their firearms. 

Essentially, I think that there should be a federal law, (not state), requiring that all gun owners must purchase and maintain liability insurance for all of their firearms, similar to that required for cars. We allow cars to be driven on public roads but the driver must be insured in case he/she harms someone or damages property. The same should be true for owning and using guns, especially if CCW is eventually allowed nationally.

I recognize and understand that no law is going to eliminate a criminal or a deranged individual who is really intent on obtaining some type of gun and committing crimes, murders or mass-murders.  But I do not believe that we as a civilized society, should do nothing and just accept that the steadily increasing gun-related violence and crime, is the "price" for our freedom.  We should not let the mounting number of deaths that are gun-related continue without attempting to address it, that truly is in ALL of the public's best interest. 

AVB-AMG

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IMHO, the first priority for any gun owner should be to learn and follow the rules for the safe handling, cleaning, storage and transportation of firearms. The next task should be to examine the risks and liability associated with gun ownership and the research and find the best options for insurance products and solutions to meet your desired needs.

Liability Insurance
Keep in mind that one’s homeowners or renter’s insurance policy does not just protect one’s belongings, it also includes protection from liability, up to a point. 

Assuming that it is not a criminal act, policyholders may be covered for gun-related injuries or deaths sustained on their property. In most cases, a homeowners insurance policy provides a certain amount of liability coverage if you were sued for.  Even if one uses their firearm for self-defense it could result in a very complicated and expensive legal ramifications. Since most standard homeowners policy have a liability limit of between $100,000 - $500,000, you may want to look into a personal umbrella policy for added financial protection. Umbrella insurance can not only provide that extra layer of liability coverage for guns, but also any other incident for which you may be found liable.  (You may want to check yours to determine exactly how much coverage you have and whether your insurance company has any exclusions regarding certain types of cases).  Purchasing an additional umbrella policy is the best way to obtain additional protection.  It will in most cases, ensure that I do not have to pay out of pocket to defend myself from a lawsuit related to negligence or wrongful death, whether firearms are involved or not.  We have purchased an umbrella liability policy to expand our coverage, from the same company that provides our  homeowner's policy.

Also, back in 2016, I enrolled myself and my wife in the U.S. Law Shield firearms legal defense program, with multi-state coverage, for some additional, "what if" scenario insurance coverage.  It provides its members with legal services and representation in all 50 states, by an independent, third-party attorney who is both knowledgeable and experienced with that specific State’s gun laws, if you are arrested and charged for using a gun.  Here is a link to its website:
https://www.uslawshield.com/

Like any insurance policy, you hope that you never have to use it, but it is prudent to have it just in case....

AVB-AMG

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Personal Property Insurance
From an insurance perspective, a firearm is a possession. Like most relatively durable objects, the main threats to a firearm stored in a home are fire, water, wind, and thieves. I was interested in obtaining insurance for my firearms, in case of accidental damage due to carelessness or fire, ultimate destruction or theft.

IMHO, t
he first step in in protecting one’s firearms and other valuables, including important documents, is acquiring a good quality, highly rated gun safe that is strong, secure and fire resistant. Aside from a good gun safe, the best measure you can take to ensure that your firearms are protected from perils such as fires, tornadoes, or theft is to insure them with a homeowner or renters policy.

In general, your homeowners or renter’s policy covers everything in your home, but there are some exceptions and put sub-limits on certain categories of possessions, usually between $2,000 and $3,000—on losses for guns that are stolen from a home, destroyed in a fire, or lost in some other catastrophic event.  You would be prudent to read the fine print of your current policy to see what its limits are, as well as its exclusions.

Those with more than a couple of guns in their collection may want to explore obtaining either a scheduled rider to your homeowner’s policy that will cover all of your firearms or as an alternative option, purchase a separate supplemental insurance policy which provides similar coverage.  I elected to do that later and purchased a separate personal property insurance policy for all of my firearms from a company who specifically provides dedicated firearms coverage.  Also, I chose a policy for my firearms that would reimburse me based for the replacement cost of each firearm, as opposed to their current fair market actual cash value.  I was concerned and did not want to have depreciation factored into what the final payout would be. So, if I ever have to make a claim, the insurance company will pay the stated value of the gun up front.  So, when I replace it, I can submit receipts and my insurer will reimburse me for any difference that I have to pay for an equivalent replacement.

My research discovered that the cost for this dedicated insurance may fluctuate, depending on whether on stores their firearms in a gun safe. The process of obtaining my scheduled coverage was fairly simple and included making a list of all of my firearms, including make, model, and serial number and the purchase price.  I also included an itemization for each firearm of any customized modifications made to it, as well as any accessories mounted on them and their associated costs.  I also photographed each firearm.

Ultimately, based on this research, I believe that the personal property gun insurance policy offered by the NRA may be one of the best deals available. The additional riders for homeowner's policies are considerably more expensive than the same coverage from NRA. If I continue to purchase additional firearms every year, I will have to adjust coverage accordingly, making the case for having insurance coverage even more important.

As I understand the NRA gun insurance, it is essentially a secondary insurance, where your homeowner’s insurance policy would pay first to its limit, if you have firearms coverage, before the NRA insurance would pay. Therefore, there would be no double-payment, one from each insurer.  From what I have determined so far, the NRA provides at no cost to its current active members up to $2,500 of insurance through ArmsCare Firearms Insurance, but a member must activate this benefit.

A member may elect to purchase additional coverage for an additional annual fee, which seems reasonable to me. ArmsCare Plus Firearms Insurance provides NRA members with protection for their firearms and accessories up to $1,000,000 in coverage. Rates start at just $65 annually for $6,500 in coverage. The ArmsCare Plus Firearms Insurance works in tandem with the $2,500 No Cost ArmsCare Firearms Insurance provided with one’s NRA membership. Purchasing this additional insurance your benefit will be automatically upgraded to full replacement cost. Firearms valued at $2,500 or more must be scheduled, however, serial numbers are not required to be submitted.

Both of these NRA endorsed insurance plans covers insured firearms, air guns, bows and arrows against theft, accidental loss, and damage. Guns and gun accessories including scopes, rings, mounts, slings and sling swivels, which are attached to the insured firearm and are protected from the following:
• Damage
• Direct physical loss
• Fire
• Theft (Theft from a vehicle is covered when it is the result of breaking and entering a locked vehicle or locked portion of the vehicle.)

Here is a link for more information;

https://locktonaffinityoutdoor.com/armscare-plus/

AVB-AMG

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12 minutes ago, AVB-AMG said:

I know that I am in the minority here on NJGF on this topic but I do believe that we should require ALL gun owners to have liability insurance.  I also think that they would be prudent to also invest in a personal property/articles insurance policy for their firearms. 

Why?  What exactly would This insurance cover?  It’s illegal for an insurance company to cover illegal acts. So is this protecting against “accidents” with the firearm?  Is that really the problem?  Isn’t that already covered elsewhere?

Comparing it to cars is invalid. Insurance is not required to OWN a car. Only to drive it on public roads. Your comparison may be valid for CCW but that’s not what your talking about. 

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@voyager9

Yes, the required liability insurance coverage would be for covering accidents involving firearms, similar to what standard liability insurance covers.

What is the point of owning an automobile if you cannot legally drive it on public roads.....???
As far as CCW is concerned, if it is ever passed nationally, then the liability insurance issue will be front and center.  Why not get the ball rolling now with this coverage for all gun owners?

AVB-AMG

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11 minutes ago, AVB-AMG said:

@voyager9

Yes, the required liability insurance coverage would be for covering accidents involving firearms, similar to what standard liability insurance covers.

What is the point of owning an automobile if you cannot legally drive it on public roads.....???
As far as CCW is concerned, if it is ever passed nationally, then the liability insurance issue will be front and center.  Why not get the ball rolling now with this coverage for all gun owners?

AVB-AMG

Name one other item you need specific liability insurance to own. 
 

use of a car on private land does not require insurance.  You also don’t need a drivers license. The best example is farms but there are others. 
 

I bring up CCW because it’s the only analog to insurance for cars. 

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9 minutes ago, AVB-AMG said:

@voyager9

Yes, the required liability insurance coverage would be for covering accidents involving firearms, similar to what standard liability insurance covers.

What is the point of owning an automobile if you cannot legally drive it on public roads.....???
As far as CCW is concerned, if it is ever passed nationally, then the liability insurance issue will be front and center.  Why not get the ball rolling now with this coverage for all gun owners?

AVB-AMG

Umm. Driving your car on private roads and/or private property. Same for shooting firearms. Get out to west New Jersey and there are vast tracts of land to enjoy. On second thought, please stay in Montclair or whichever leftest dumping ground you reside in. 

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18 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Name one other item you need specific liability insurance to own. 

use of a car on private land does not require insurance.  You also don’t need a drivers license. The best example is farms but there are others. 

@voyager9:

To answer your question above, most states require by law that all aircraft owner's purchase and maintain aviation liability insurance.
While not an "item", all of us professionals, including Doctors, Architects, Engineers, may be required by some states where we are licensed to purchase and maintain professional liability/indemnification insurance.  As an Architect, my specific insurance is referred to as "Errors and Omissions" (E&O) insurance.

Of course there would be an exception such as the use of dedicated farm vehicles used exclusively on private land, such as a farm, that stay on the farm property or even only use a public road temporarily for access to their farm properties.  But that is a very small number of vehicles which would be exempted in any reasonable law.

AVB-AMG

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9 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

Umm. Driving your car on private roads and/or private property. Same for shooting firearms. Get out to west New Jersey and there are vast tracts of land to enjoy. On second thought, please stay in Montclair or whichever leftest dumping ground you reside in. 

@ChrisJM981:

In NJ, I would speculate that most people do not visit, let alone own, extensive tracts of private land, to drive their cars on.  Most normal sane residents use their automobiles for basic transportation to get from their home to their workplace and other destinations, using public roads, streets and highways.  Also, in your silly hypothetical scenario, in order to be legal, they would have to somehow transport their uninsured and hence illegal car from their home to that private property, where the owner has granted them permission to drive on their land.  That would be a royal PITA!  So much for "enjoying" that process....

AVB-AMG

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1 hour ago, AVB-AMG said:

I recognize and understand that no law is going to eliminate a criminal or a deranged individual who is really intent on obtaining some type of gun and committing crimes, murders or mass-murders. 

And this is where 99% of shooting situations start. A criminal, by definition, doesn't follow CURRENT laws. Yet, you want to penalize law abiding citizens, and FORCE them to buy insurance. :facepalm:  :negative:

 

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35 minutes ago, AVB-AMG said:

@voyager9:

To answer your question above, most states require by law that all aircraft owner's purchase and maintain aviation liability insurance.
While not an "item", all of us professionals, including Doctors, Architects, Engineers, may be required by some states where we are licensed to purchase and maintain professional liability/indemnification insurance.  As an Architect, my specific insurance is referred to as "Errors and Omissions" (E&O) insurance.

Of course there would be an exception such as the use of dedicated farm vehicles used exclusively on private land, such as a farm, that stay on the farm property or even only use a public road temporarily for access to their farm properties.  But that is a very small number of vehicles which would be exempted in any reasonable law.

AVB-AMG

Engineers, doctors, architects require insurance when working publicly in that field. They don’t need insurance just because they have the degree. 
 

for cars:  doesn’t matter how many take advantage of that use-case. It exists. 
 

for aircraft:  I can’t speak to that. From what I can tell it varies by state and covers commercial use and isn’t always required for private ownership. 

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