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Share this with people who think they get it... The young cashier suggested to the much older lady that she should bring her own grocery bags, because plastic bags are not good for the environment. The woman apologized to the young girl and explained, "We didn't have this 'green thing' back in my earlier days." The young clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations." The older lady said that she was right -- our generation didn't have the"green thing" in its day. The older lady went on to explain: Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over.So they really were recycled. But we didn't have the "green thing" back in our day. Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags that we reused for numerous things. Most memorable besides household garbage bags was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for our school books. This was to ensure that public property (the books provided for our use by the school) was not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to personalize our books on the brown paper bags. But, too bad we didn't do the "green thing" back then. We walked up stairs because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks. But she was right. We didn't have the "green thing" in our day. Back then we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw away kind We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts. Wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that young lady is right; we didn't have the "green thing" back in our day. Back then we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana. In the kitchen we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity. But she's right; we didn't have the "green thing" back then. We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blade in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull. But we didn't have the "green thing" back then. Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service in the family's $45,000 SUV or van, which cost what a whole house did before the "green thing." We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest burger joint. But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the "green thing" back then? We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off... Especially from a tattooed, multiple pierced smartass who can't make change without the cash register telling them how much. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

" possession on school grounds " is not in your home or place of business so it's everywhere else. " no permit or license will be required to obtain or possess a stun gun " is pretty clear. NJ law is famous for the way they skirt around the common sense plain meaning of things so without actually saying, "hey you can possess a stun gun everywhere except schools for its intended legal purpose, namely self defense", this may the best we can hope for. Just look at the way they carved out AR-15 possession, the statute is still there but the NJSP responded that the evil Colt semi and the ones we see at a NJ FFL are not the same and therefore legal to possess. It's the bass ackwards way they do things

"... no permit or license will be required to obtain or possess a stun gun. ..." This won't be good enough for the naysayers, because it doesn't say "carry".

I reached out to the NJSP via their website and was redirected to the Citizens Services and Relations Office of the Attorney General. The director wrote back and here is the response, BTW the memo he refers to is the same two pager that has been linked to http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/New-Jersey-stun-gun.pdf That should cement things, possession and carry per the NJAG is legal. I have a request into my local PD asking pretty much the same thing, namely do the officers on the job know about the consent decree and have they been advised not to arrest a non felon 18+ year old citizen in possession of a stun gun. Here's the email from the AG: Mr. : As of October 22, 2017, in accordance with a Consent Order entered in the United States District Court, prior statutory prohibitions against selling or possessing stun guns in New Jersey have been declared unconstitutional. By virtue of this ruling, New Jersey is now on similar footing as 39 other states that allow stun guns with limited or no restrictions so, unless there is a change to the law, no permit or license will be required to obtain or possess a stun gun. However, the State Police have proposed a rule, expected to be adopted in December, prohibiting minors under the age of 18 from obtaining or possessing stun guns. Law enforcement has been directed to adhere to this rule, pending adoption and thereafter. In addition to the proposed regulations, current statutory provisions that establish restrictions on stun guns remain in force and effect, including laws that prohibit felons and incompetent persons from possessing stun guns, possession on school grounds, possession for an unlawful purpose, and possession under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as a stun gun may have. At this time, nothing has been published on the State Police website regarding stun guns. Regarding your question about all law enforcement officers having knowledge of the change in status of stun guns, please refer to the memo discussed in our previous correspondence. The purpose of that memo was to inform law enforcement throughout the state of the changes based on the Consent Order. I hope that this has been helpful. Sincerely, Jeffrey E. Lenox Director Citizens Services and Relations Office of the Attorney General 25 Market Street P.O. Box 080 Trenton, NJ 08625-0080 (609) 984-5828 www.facebook.com/NJAttorneyGeneralsOffice www.twitter.com/NewJerseyAG www.instagram.com/njattorneygeneralsoffice

It doesn't need a lawful purpose as NJ explicitly allows one to carry it for self defense. 2C:39-6(i)

Although I no longer have a dog in the NJ fight I sill cannot see why there isn't a mass application in NJ for carry licenses. The statistics don't look bad if nobody applies. In addition, how can you sue the state for not allowing CCW that hasn't denied you anything? Saying that there is a de facto ban on carry licenses has no impact if the numbers don't agree.

This is becoming Stockholm syndrome ‘y

Exactly - I carry my kimber pepper blaster every day with the premise of self defense.

If they appeal, it will go to the supreme court and they know they will lose. If that happened, then states like CA, NJ, NY, HI, MA would have to change their laws too. So D.C. got pressure from these states to be quiet and accept it. Kinda like taking one for the team.

It’ll be you and me, and @Ray Ray

That is awesome and thankfully not too good to be true ...thank you for forwarding that clarification.

@High Exposure has recommended the pulse. I trust his knowledge. This is just a stepping stone . Ccw is still required as citizens.

Most states do not ask that question. I did a search of the common states for CCW and found that NH is the only that asks if you have ever been turned down. Are NJ people really that afraid? With that attitude NJ will never have a chance of getting CCW unless the challenge comes from out of state like a Supreme Court decision based upon another state that is similar.

You should see my spot in Randolph lol... I'm on a 90 acre farm, and I'm the only guy with written permission to hunt. But I can come look at what you have whenever. I'm in morris county every day. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk There are. But don't get caught opening the valves on the unit without an EPA card in your pocket. The fine is $27,000. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Nappen would not be my guy

To be even more specific, the NJSP rep who was at the SAFE conference, stated (while being videotaped, mind you) that if the reason for denying a concealed carry license was inadequate "justifiable need" - it would say so on the record of the denial - and that would NOT hurt your chances of applying in the future for a concealed carry license. He was pretty adamant! In fact, he was encouraging people to do so. He then clarified saying that if you were denied to make sure to state that on that next application, otherwise you were falsifying a form. I've been noodling on this for awhile... if people are so afraid to do this... why not recruit a whole bunch of family and friends who have NO BURNING INTEREST in having a concealed carry license... and have them all apply? Do it in a coordinated effort and track it all. Win-win. If they get denied, you start getting your "true" statistical picture of how the state denies the vast majority cc applications AND that then provides grounds for legal action. (And someone got denied who really doesn't care anyway. No loss!) If they DO get approved, it then forces the issue of approving others. "Why did hers get approved and not mine?" Either way, it starts applying pressure... and provides fodder for future lawsuits. That's how I see it! Thoughts?

Once you are turned down you then have to keep answering the question whether you have been ever turned down (which is asked by most states).

Ok... And is bear spray marketed towards women for self defense? Do they make keychain versions of it, regularly sold? Sorry, but completely different product, with a different role. Pepper spray usually has a range of 10 feet or so. Bear spray, extend it out to 30 feet. Argue whatever you want, I don’t suggest pepper spray as this great solution. Dogs, with their respiratory system/sense of smell... there is a reason why USPS hands them to their employees. Bears... while different, yea, because what is the alternative with a 300+ pound animal with a thick skull? Deterrent is usually the better choice. Tasers... to be perfectly honest, I hope get allowed, as more rights to citizens is always a plus, but you won’t see me buying one. If BP requires me to carry one, I will, and will train to their standards... but not going to elect to buy one or carry it when not working. And when I’m out of NJ, not having my girlfriend carry one or pepper spray. She will be carrying a firearm.

Bear spray contains about 1-2% OC vs Pepper spray at 10+%. The only difference is that most pepper sprays are point blank to like 13 feet vs bear spray going 30-35 feet.

Fyi unless you have a refrigerant licenses you will be buying a unit without refrigerant in it and would have to get someone who has their licenses to charge the unit with refrigerant.

Everyone makes their own choices. I won't be buying a taser period, but not because of fake NJ laws. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Seriously even Californians aren't so afraid of their own shadow or the fictitious laws that don't exist. I've read how guys won't bring loaded magazines to the range because King Big Mouth Nappen says it is illegal. Never had a problem and I've never read of anyone arrested for just loaded mags. Let's think about how many people were pulled over and arrested for carrying a handgun that didn't commit a crime or didn't tell the officer they had the handgun. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

You missed the point completely. If the ONLY reason you give a cop for possessing a knife is self defense, you are boned. I almost always carry a knife, but i'm not a moron who would tell a cop that the reason I carry a knife is for self defense. I actually have many legitimate uses for the knife I carry (from cuttting cardboard boxes to fudge brownies) and use it every day. A Taser has just one single function. There is no sporting or utility purpose for a taser. The post DirtyDigz made is encouraging, but until it is writing, signed and stamped with the state seal, the area is too gray for my comfort level. I am not trying to talk people out of being able to defend themselves, in fact, if it is clearly legal to carry a taser, I would be the first to promote the use of them. What I don't want to see is a bunch of good people getting caught up in our ridiculous legal system that is set up as a snare to entrap law abiding citizens.

Knife= Lunch box fruit slicing, box cutting Taser= Wild Dogs, or other dangerous wildlife, Bears, coyotes, squirrels and Bunnies.

Wow people are talking themselves out of carrying a perfectly legal stun gun. Nappen is a blowhard who is hoping someone gets arrested for having one and the case gets publicity and the person arrested has plenty of money. The ban was ruled Unconstitutional. This would apply to ban on carry since it was at the heart of the initial case. If you want one buy it and carry it. If you are not going to carry it why buy it? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Self defense is not unlawful in NJ. Carrying a weapon specifically for the purpose of self defense is. The restrictions are so tight here that we are only allowed to carry a small canister of pepper spray and a whistle.. This is a state where daisy red rider BB guns require a FID to purchase and if you want to buy a .177cal target air pistol you have to go through exactly the same process as if you were buying a 44magnum.

Let's say you get stopped by a cop, and you have a pocket knife on you. And the cop asks you for what lawful purpose do you have this knife, and your reply is for self-defense. You'll be taking a trip to the police station. There is really only one lawful purpose to carry a taser. It's reasonable and it's rational however that is not how the state of New Jersey will likely see it. One of the problems we have here is that what is not expressly denied is not tacitly implied to be permitted.

That’s how I have begun to understand it as well.

They’re chicken shits. Too scared to invest in new ideas. Also with all the political correctness, worrying about who you might offend and violence not allowed on anything but a zombie, how can you write anything?

If we could get 500-1000 people to apply it would destroy their 90% approval rating.

I'd submit an application.

There was talk of an organized effort to submit CCW applications in NJ a while back. I'm not sure why it was put on the back burner.

I just saw a commercial for X-Files coming in 2018

Yup. Honestly though who cares what the naysayers have to say. It's almost as if they like being controlled. I try and avoid dangerous areas with my family. If I had to go to a high crime area in say Camden, Newark, or Trenton with my family I will carry whatever I feel is needed to protect them. I won't be buying a stun gun because I don't think it offers adequate protection. If I did I certainly would carry it without worry with the statements made by AG and NJSP. As I said in the sentence though I choose to avoid such dangerous areas with my family. Life is all about choices. I make my decisions based on risk vs reward. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

No more original ideas in Hollyweird. They reshuffle, remake, and sequel the crap out of everything. Grows tiring.

There is one test case already pages up in this thread.

Me neither of all the lawyers in nj he'd be at the very end of my list

I have mine, Just no time for side jobs lol.

It sure is!

You wouldn't be that lucky with bear spray...

Many a citizen of NJ has been burned by fictitious laws. They kinda make them up as they go along. Ironically, it's easier to get a CCW in CA and it appears that tasers are unrestricted there too. Like I said, the moment it is in writing, I will be first in line. Until then I am following the tenet of: If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

What's up with that take down lever? Does it have something to do with the laser guide rod? I never seen a take down lever that looked like that. There is a whole lot of Beretta in that picture. I like it.

Another opinion:

Agree that FTF gives certainty of what you are buying, however it won't be easy to stumble upon a FN49 in a shop these days. Gunboards are your best bet - and gunbroker is not too bad if you ask the right questions ands get the seller to send you pics. Stay away from Armslist unless is a local FTF transaction....

Where is everyone seeing that you can't carry? It seems like it is legal to possess just like a knife as long as you are not committing a crime with it.The only restrictions I can see are in schools, under 18, and prohibited persons.

In related news Philadelphia repealed their ban yesterday, so you can now carry them in Pennsylvania as a whole and in the city. So this makes it more viable for me for sure, as the Pennsylvania laws are more certain when it comes to carry on persons. Seeing all these new repeals makes me more confident NJ isn’t going to put any restrictions on carry, and that we could in fact carry now, but I don’t want to be the test case that’s for sure.

Smith 686 Ruger Gp100 Colt /Taurus and in that order. Spend the extra $ for the Smith

Have a 686-3 - love it. I highly recommend.

WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!

ain't no way i'd be looking to go farther north.......too much colder in the winters. no way for florida for me, unless it's in a relatively undeveloped area in the pan handle. seems to me most of florida is either over developed, or on the fast track to being such. i keep looking to one of the carolinas or virginia......or possibly northeastern texas......