Disturbing development at Cherry Ridge Range

[Maksim 1,504]

Hate to break it to you, but no one cares what you own, or do in the privacy of your own home or office.

 

I hate the stupid gun laws as much as anyone else, that has nothing to do with a private club choosing to protect themselves and their members, that includes you from frivilious lawsuits.

 

If this is something that bothers you, take it up with the board. If they do not do anything, and it still bothers you, quit the club and find another place.

 

If you are doing something you do not want recorded, that is a different issue.

 

Point is, the club is private property and you are a guest there. In America, personal freedoms, include the right to install cameras on your property. So even if I don't agree with being recorded, the majorty of the people might find value in it.

 

Democracy is a bitch, accept the fact that other people have a right to their opinions.

 

Personally, I am all for ranges having cameras, find the people who destroy the property and kick them out. Address problems before it becomes really bad.

[creeper 16]

NJ case in which training.. or trigger work resulted in a conviction in a self defense shooting? I am not aware of a ton of them.. but maybe if I could read through them I would have a better understanding..

Not NJ specific, Ive read his books and articles over the years and he spends lots of time on the legal ramifications of self defense , there were several articles recently (within the last 6 months or so) in Combat Handgun magazine I believe!

[Mexican_Hippie 3]

Again Ive read a lot of Mas Ayoobs writings on the self defense subject, He is often called as an expert witness when law abiding firearm owners use deadly force, Training is exactly the kind of thing unscrupulous prosecutors will use against you , just as they do with having trigger work done or using your own reloads in a self defense situation.

 

Yep. I hear nothing but good things about the MAG40 classes Mas offers too, even from people who have been shooting and carrying for decades.

 

On the main topic it's the property owners perogative. But I'd definitely talk to them about it and give them your opinion as well.

[creeper 16]

Democracy is a ****, accept the fact that other people have a right to their opinions.

 

Yes , and I stated mine, and again I also stated that yes they have the right video me and I have the right not to join.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

If you don't like it, then go to PA and shoot. Oh wait, they have cameras at their ranges too...

 

Guess what Creeper, those cameras aren't part of some grand left-wing conspiracy, they're for your safety, and to protect your club from frivolous lawsuits.

 

See, things like suicides, murders, robberies, and theft occur at shooting ranges. In fact, at my range, someone recently had his rifle stolen while out at the 300 yard range. Two dude just drove up, grabbed his rifle and took off. A camera would've been nice to get some plates off the vehicle they used to report to the police. And they are contemplating that decision right now...

[KpdPipes 388]

out of all i posted you pick up on why do i want privacy?back in the 60's/70's there was a book 1984....now all has come to pass.when i am target shooting or anywhere out of my house it is still noones business what im doin.facebook/twitter all suck.go mind your own business,not mine.if you see a terrorist then get involved.let the professionals do their job.its not yours to do...

Then don't join there and shoot. Sorry but like it or not there are Morons, A-holes and Jagoffs in this Sport/Hobby/whatever. People steal guns, people steal equipment, people damage Club property. I dont know about ANJRPC but at CJRPC, my membership makes me a part Owner of the club, which means when crap gets damaged it's MY STUFF that is getting dicked around with, it's MY money that has to go relace equipment ant supplies that are screwed up. It's private property, and a private club. If you Don't like the cameras, Quit and go elsewhere.

[aguilar64 9]

Shongum is going to implement cameras in the not so distant future.

[PeteF 1,044]

I'm gonna have to agree with Creeper on this one.

 

How many people here register their long guns? Why not?

How many people here have lost weapons or ammo in a horrible boating accident?

How many people here are hesitant to even say how much ammo they have?

 

As for privacy, yeah you actually do expect some level of privacy on a PRIVATE range.

ANJRC is a members only private club not like the Bullet hole which is PUBLIC range.

 

Picture this scenario.

 

You go out to the range one day with a few friends and bring your "Arsenal" of 5 rifles and a couple on handguns.

You have a good day of shooting and head home. That night your house is invaded and you defend yourself killing

one Dirtbag and injuring a second. Don't think for 1 second that the prosecutor won't subpoena the range video.

And they WILL have associates watch every minute of it, the cost doesn't come out of their pockets.

Even if prosecutor decides not to press charges, guess who will be the next one subpoenaing those videos? You guessed it,

Dirtbag's family lawyer. They will then be shown to jury of "your peers" and you will be portrayed as a raving gun nut

just looking for someone to kill.

 

Yeah I see the need for cameras to limit vandalism and liability if, god forbid, someone gets hurt in a ND.

 

And yes maybe it should be taken up with ANJPRC BoD, but people **** and moan about everything here

 

i.e.

Why are my permits taking so long?

Why can I have "High Capacity" magazines?

Why can't I CCW?

 

To hit Creeper with all those '-'s for stating his opinion is really two faced on the people who did it.

 

ANJRPC really needs to come up with a policy of destroy after X days. Best of both worlds.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I'm gonna have to agree with Creeper on this one.

 

How many people here register their long guns? Why not?

How many people here have lost weapons or ammo in a horrible boating accident?

How many people here are hesitant to even say how much ammo they have?

 

As for privacy, yeah you actually do expect some level of privacy on a PRIVATE range.

ANJRC is a members only private club not like the Bullet hole which is PUBLIC range.

 

Picture this scenario.

 

You go out to the range one day with a few friends and bring your "Arsenal" of 5 rifles and a couple on handguns.

You have a good day of shooting and head home. That night your house is invaded and you defend yourself killing

one Dirtbag and injuring a second. Don't think for 1 second that the prosecutor won't subpoena the range video.

And they WILL have associates watch every minute of it, the cost doesn't come out of their pockets.

Even if prosecutor decides not to press charges, guess who will be the next one subpoenaing those videos? You guessed it,

Dirtbag's family lawyer. They will then be shown to jury of "your peers" and you will be portrayed as a raving gun nut

just looking for someone to kill.

 

Yeah I see the need for cameras to limit vandalism and liability if, god forbid, someone gets hurt in a ND.

 

And yes maybe it should be taken up with ANJPRC BoD, but people **** and moan about everything here

 

i.e.

Why are my permits taking so long?

Why can I have "High Capacity" magazines?

Why can't I CCW?

 

To hit Creeper with all those '-'s for stating his opinion is really two faced on the people who did it.

 

ANJRPC really needs to come up with a policy of destroy after X days. Best of both worlds.

 

AWB... HIGH CAP MAGS... CCW... are PUBLIC issues..

filming at a privately owned range is a PRIVATE issue...

 

the issue is really simple.. his rights end.. where the range owners rights begin.. do you not agree with that statement? you think the range owner should forgo his rights because several of the members don't like something?

[maideneddie 35]

It amazes me how somethings that are so trivial fire some people up. You have the right to your own personal choice. If it upsets you so much to be recorded shooting at a range, then just go join another range. To turn this into some tin foil hat, paranoid the government is out to get me rant is absolutley rediculous. What is wrong with a place trying to protect themselves and their customers? Just deal with it or walk, its a no brainer. Perhaps some need to work out what their real issue is with this....

[Maksim 1,504]

Even at a private range, the range members are the owners, at least at CJRPC where you pay a cap contribution to become a part range owner, I do not know about CR.

 

Hoping Anthony will respond here (GFH) as he would know better.

 

Will make this a poll, who think it is a big deal, and who does not mind.

 

Even in a membership the majority of the members have the right to make that decision.

 

Do I wish everyone was honest and treated everything as their own, absolutely. However that is not where we are at.

 

Bullet Hole, Brick Armory, Shore shot, are no different that private clubs, the difference is there is one owner over many.

 

In a black and white world, it would be easy to say, I want my privacy, the problem is it comes at a cost.

 

What is more likely to happen, a camera protecting the club property, and protecting you from a baseless lawsuit because someone decides to slip and fall and sue, or....

 

You have to defend yourself, shoot the bad guy, and they file charges against you, and pull up a video of you shooting.

 

No matter what the evidence at your hearing is, it can be spun 100 different ways, and we can argue that point all day long.

 

If you were club president, what would you do?

 

Keep member dues as low as possible and protecting from lawsuits, or take a hard line in the hopes that this lottery ticket will someday pay off?

[maideneddie 35]

The bottom line is where do you go on a daily basis that you are not on camera? A handful of RO's cannot possibly be everywhere and see everything, and since this is a place.where everyone is using firearms it seems to make sense that if big brother is watching it may keep some from acting like idiots. I know what I am doing there, so I for.one have nothing to worry about.

[djg0770 481]

Just a point - you can go shoot at the state WMA's - I know they don't have cameras.

 

There are plenty of ranges in PA that have no cameras at all too.

 

Do I wish CR used their/my money better? Yes, I do, however, we live in a state full of douche bags who think nothing of throwing their trash out the window (including cigarette butts), along with all sorts of other azzhat behavior. So, this is what the Board of Directors has decided to do. Don't like it? Go to a meeting and speak your piece... I believe a meeting is coming up real soon.

[creeper 16]

It amazes me how somethings that are so trivial fire some people up. You have the right to your own personal choice. If it upsets you so much to be recorded shooting at a range, then just go join another range. To turn this into some tin foil hat, paranoid the government is out to get me rant is absolutley rediculous. What is wrong with a place trying to protect themselves and their customers? Just deal with it or walk, its a no brainer. Perhaps some need to work out what their real issue is with this....

Isnt that what Ive been saying! and there is no real issue to work out

[creeper 16]

For the record , CR is about 2 miles from my home ,I remeber shooting next to at least one of you guys in the past. I also belong to another range about 10 minutes away, also private with only about 150 members . I spend a lot of money between the two , partly because I want to support the gun community and pass the sport down to my son and daughter and hopefully grandkids someday, there is really no good reason for someone to pay for memberships to two ranges 10 minutes from each other, but I do. I stated my displeasure on this subject and typically which is normal we eat our own. The gun community as a whole will never get anywhere until we stick together, Im not talking about this issue that I brought up , but in general as a whole we are not very united. Some of you make some good points , others not so good. Didnt look to start a flame war , but so be it. Im no tin-foil hat wearing anti-gov radical , I just enjoy shooting , I dont enjoy shooting in front of a camera , unless its mine. My choice , my wallet .

[Malsua 1,422]

I can understand not wanting the cameras.

 

I wish they'd have built a cover for the rimfire range instead.

 

I can also see the liability issue, what with all packed membership days, there are bound to be a number of bozos, but with the bozos came extra cash, so they use the money from the bozos to watch the bozos and the rest of us.

 

It won't be long before they don't work anyway just from lack of maintenance.

[tony357 386]

I agree with both sides of this story..

 

What needs to be done is these tapes need to be kept for a certian time period and then destroyed or reformatted.. Any significant events that are recorded may be kept IE damage to range or god forbid an AD or something of that nature.

[NicePants 58]

While I agree that the cameras should be put in place to record any incidents that may happen and prevent any sort of frivolous law suits, I also believe that there is at least a possibility of some attorney potentially using footage against you in an HD situation. I don't think it'd be too much of a hassle to delete footage every week or so. They'd probably have to clean it up anyway, considering that I'm fairly certain that there aren't any sort of hard drives or memory cards with infinite storage capacity yet.

[Malsua 1,422]

While I agree that the cameras should be put in place to record any incidents that may happen and prevent any sort of frivolous law suits, I also believe that there is at least a possibility of some attorney potentially using footage against you in an HD situation. I don't think it'd be too much of a hassle to delete footage every week or so. They'd probably have to clean it up anyway, considering that I'm fairly certain that there aren't any sort of hard drives or memory cards with infinite storage capacity yet.

 

We need to ask Anthony what the retention policy is.

[siderman 1,138]

We need to ask Anthony what the retention policy is.

 

+1

Altho I'm certainly not a fan of Big Bro Eye In The Sky stuff for this time I'm ok with it. I know what i'm doing is safe and to the rules, nothing to hide.And as far as I know CR has a great track record. However i cant account for any of the others out there and lord knows there's always a few yahoos, arrogant, big egos, ill-willed and just plain dumb people out there.But do i want images of me totin guns and bangin away floating around for who knows how long-absolutly not. When we were working at the silloete range there was plenty of questionable acts to see. holes in the metal plates- obviously not from a 22.Lots of bullet holes in the wood structure portions of the barricade between the 200-300 range. Come on, you cant hit that angle by accident and if it was and God forbid someone got hurt, theres a record of it now. I just need to remember my ski mask and extra set of license plates for now on.

[KpdPipes 388]

So, Creeper, we are "A bunch of North Jersey Guys that voted for Omaba" Huh?

Edited October 11, 2011 by Maksim
edited for language.

[creeper 16]

So, Creeper, we are "A bunch of North Jersey Guys that voted for Omaba" Huh? Do the letters FO mean anything to you skippy???

ha! first off it was another guy who made the claim , and yeah I agreed , this thread is typical of the eat your own mentality of a lot of so-called freedom loving gun owners. I spoke my mind and most here didnt like it . except for the few who voted NO in the poll , but didnt post for whatever reason. AND again they have the right to set ou camera's. The only thing more disturbing about camera's is the fact so many here have no problem with it.,

Edited October 11, 2011 by Maksim
edited for language.

[creeper 16]

So, Creeper, we are "A bunch of North Jersey Guys that voted for Omaba" Huh? Do the letters FO mean anything to you skippy???

and hey tough guy why didnt you post this in the other forum?

[djg0770 481]

Oh Goody! We haven't had one of these in a while.

 

[creeper 16]

hey moderator if you are going to delete my posts and my ability to defend myself , just ban me now and GFY!

apparently if you speak up to one of the "boys" your posts get deleted!

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

back in the 60's/70's there was a book 1984....now all has come to pass.

 

What are you talking about? Have you ever actually read 1984?

 

If our society was reminiscent of any dystopian sci-fi novel, it's far more like Brave New World than 1984.

 

So, Creeper, we are "A bunch of North Jersey Guys that voted for Omaba" Huh?

 

Speak for yourself, I AM a North Jersey guy who voted for Obama!

[Old School 611]

hey moderator if you are going to delete my posts and my ability to defend myself , just ban me now and GFY!

apparently if you speak up to one of the "boys" your posts get deleted!

 

 

Is a Mod deleting posts? If so Mod, you're making a mess of this thread.

 

I was having fun watching all this keyboard bravado....

 

BTW if you can't be civil don't post you little weiners. This goes for everybody...

[vladtepes 1,060]

hey moderator if you are going to delete my posts and my ability to defend myself , just ban me now and GFY!

apparently if you speak up to one of the "boys" your posts get deleted!

 

 

if that is how you feel.. allow me to assist you..

 

Click Here..

[creeper 16]

if that is how you feel.. allow me to assist you..

 

Click Here..

 

do you agree with deleting posts? A guy tells me to FO and I respond , my post is deleted , his isnt .

My bad , I see they are back up now.

[KpdPipes 388]

and hey tough guy why didnt you post this in the other forum?

I'm banned over there for violating the CoC... Legitimate ban, i did Break the rules..doesnt mean i dont pop over occasionally to read there, in this case though, Someone else pointed out your whining to me.