What's in your HD gun?

[fatty 241]

Glock 23 Gen4 with 180gr Winchester Ranger T

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Mossberg 500, BB shot

[High Exposure 5,664]

Glock 35 with 180gr Gold Dot Hollow points

 

M4 with 62gr Federal TRU soft points

 

Rem 870 with Hornady TAP 00 buck

[NJScott 15]

Glock 23 with hot Gold Dots, plus a 20-pound senior dachshund with a flatulence issue.

[bulpup 98]

plus a 20-pound senior dachshund with a flatulence issue.

 

I don't want to know what you use as a foregrip.

[Jp10127 0]

Springfield xd-40 with full length guide rod and 20 lb recoil spring soaking up the recoil of Speer gold dot 185 grain hollow points and spare mag has 200 grain xtp hand loads. Of coarse I doubt I'll ever have to use them. Odds are the two 65 lb pit bulls will do the trick. And ones only a year and a half old no where near done growing!

[Socom 19]

Bullets duh

[Zell959 40]

If i'm still awake & in the living room, Glock 19 w/Federal 147gr JHPs, because my Glock is what fits best into the concealed storage container I have in the room.

 

If sleeping & only have time to reach over to safe under night stand, Beretta 90two w/TLR1 & Winchester Ranger-T 147grs.

 

If have a bit more time to get to safe in closet, Ar15 w/ hornady 75gr TAP or Mossberg 500A w/00 buck.

 

If in the basement reloading, SKS w/Tula FMJ.

[tommy3rd 132]

all factory ammo, different calibers depending on which room and my mood on what to place in my bedside table each night or week.

[ZOMBIE 19]

GLOCK 30 RANGER T SERIES 230 GRAIN

[ChrisJM981 924]

Hornady Critical Defense 115gr 9mm for now. I'm planning on a switch to frangible ammo.

[fmtek 4]

Glock 19 (Gen3) with Federal EFMJ's ... and old Insight M3 Tactical Light...

[High Exposure 5,664]

Hornady Critical Defense 115gr 9mm for now. I'm planning on a switch to frangible ammo.

 

Intriguing...

 

Can I ask why?

 

And also, what ballistic information have you read or heard about that is driving your decision to switch ammo?

 

Edited for clarity

Edited July 15, 2012 by High Exposure

[illy 1]

2 rounds of .38 Glasers followed by 4 rounds of 125gr .357 mag Hornady Critical Defense.

[bhunted 887]

Boowetz, what else? Heheheh... Seriously, I use Air Freedom rounds in both my 45s

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=/watch?v=Dvj9wPEkDss&v=Dvj9wPEkDss&gl=US

 

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

[Ray Ray 3,566]

This thread should have 45 posts of ammo beginning with "shotgun" and ending in "12 gauge".

[Duppie 73]

This thread should have 45 posts of ammo beginning with "shotgun" and ending in "12 gauge".

....or "Hornady" and ending in "Defense".....

[zoid 24]

No one uses frangible ammo? I thought this was ideal for the home since it won't go through sheet rock or will

be far less potent if it does. Correct me if I'm wrong. This is just want I learned on the internet....

[bhunted 887]

What I just posted above is... Extreme Shock Air Freedom Rounds. Supposedly what Air Marshalls use on planes. Watch test video in link within my post.

 

No one uses frangible ammo? I thought this was ideal for the home since it won't go through sheet rock or will

be far less potent if it does. Correct me if I'm wrong. This is just want I learned on the internet....

[RedBowTies88 41]

What I just posted above is... Extreme Shock Air Freedom Rounds. Supposedly what Air Marshalls use on planes. Watch test video in link within my post.

 

an interesting video on this round....

 

[High Exposure 5,664]

What I just posted above is... Extreme Shock Air Freedom Rounds. Supposedly what Air Marshalls use on planes. Watch test video in link within my post.

 

I am pretty sure that US Air Marshals carry .357sig Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points always in their Sigs. I will try to get definitive clarification on that. I do know that the Federal Flight Deck Officers (Armed Pilots) do not use frangible ammunition. 

 

In any event, I do know this, Air Marshals and Pilots are not concerned with putting relatively tiny holes in an airframe at altitude. There are numerous holes always present in any aircraft and a few more holes aren't going to cause explosive decompression. They are more concerned with the same thing anyone using a gun for SD or HD should be, and that is ending the threat as quickly as possible. That means good terminal effects on target and that generally precludes frangible ammo.

 

No one uses frangible ammo?  I thought this was ideal for the home since it won't go through sheet rock or will 

be far less potent if it does.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  This is just want I learned on the internet....

 

Frangible ammo is designed to break into small chunks that disintegrate into dust like particles when hitting hard surfaces such as steel. It was designed during WWII to make urban/CQB live fire training safer for the trainees. That effect is typically not seen on soft tissue/flesh or typical US building construction materials like sheetrock and wood. In these instances, the frangible acts more like a FMJ bullet. I have seen 5.56 frangible zip through 2 car doors and strike its intended target, a cardboard backer over a sheet of 1/8" plywood, where it disintegrated.  I have seen .40 S&W frangible from a Glock 22 zip through 1x2 wood target stands and stick in the berm without breaking up or zip through 6 sheets of 1/2" Sheetrock.

 

If the round does disintegrate against soft surfaces/tissue it reportedly leaves a quite nasty but generally shallow wound with little penetration (I have seen this firsthand in a tissue simulation - bare 10% ballistic gelatin).

 

The video posted by RedBowTie above shows both of these effects. The shallow penetration in the water jug and the FMJ type performance in the Ballistic Gel with 3 layers of denim.

 

In either instance, FMJ performance or shallow penetration, if you get a hit there is definitely no increase in the targets morale, but it may not be the show stopper you are expecting. 

 

Dr. Gary Roberts, a pretty well known guy on ballistics and body armor testing, states:

 

"Reduced Ricochet Limited Penetration (frangible ammo) loads are typically intended for CQB operations where significantly reduced ricochet and limited penetration potential around shipboard bulkheads or industrial pipes is necessary in order to reduce risk to innocent persons and friendly force personnel, as well as to reduce the risk of release of hazardous industrial and/or other dangerous materials. For example, for its intended niche role the Black Hills Mk255 Mod 0 5.56 mm 62 gr R2LP (AA17) ammunition offers good unobstructed soft tissue terminal performance on par with other military 5.56 mm loads, but is not ideal for general CQB or land warfare use do to difficulties defeating glass and other commonly encountered intermediate barriers.

 

RRLP ammunition may be of benefit for personnel conducting VBSS, GOPLAT, and in extremis missions in maritime environments or industrial settings with hazardous materials. Likewise, the use of frangible training ammunition is an important safety consideration for close range exercises using reactive steel targets. On the other hand, frangible training ammunition is NEVER a good choice for duty/self-defense use! Anyone recommending frangible training ammunition for duty/self-defense purposes is grossly misinformed or is ignorantly repeating specious gunrag myth and should be disregarded as a source of valid information…"

 

Frangible is also typically less accurate, less reliable, and more expensive. Continued use of frangible in some firearms can also lead to some serious, sometimes catastrophic, malfunctions - especially in gas-blowback (think AR platform) or weapons with compensated barrels.

 

I have no first hand experience with the "designer" frangible ammo like the "Air Freedom" or "Glaser" rounds. However I have a hard time believing the clams they make on their packaging and website. I have heard of no LEO agencies (Federal, DOE, State, Municipal), no military units (SF or conventional) and of no armed citizen shooting involving this type of ammo. It reeks of mall ninja-ism and false advertising.

 

For me, my priority is stopping the threat, so I'm going to use ammo designed with that in mind. I am not going to load up with ammo whose primary purpose is not over-penetrating gypsum board. If my biggest concern was to prevent collateral damage in the event of a miss or a through-and-through shot in buildings built with typical US construction materials, I would use a baseball bat for HD.

 

If you want to spend $3.00 a round for ammo that may be substandard for the mission at hand, that is well within your rights. Just test it and make sure it will do what you want it to do before you trust it with your life.

 

My experience with different ammo types make me a believer in standard self defense ammo. I personally prefer Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points for pistols, and Federal or Speer 62gr Bonded Soft Point for my ARs.

[bhunted 887]

Yes, interesting. I'm kinda thinking the orig test may not show everything. In my other video, even though he left out insulation between the sheetrock, it pretty much was spot on. I think that if it went into a human, hitting bone, it would fulfill is goal and mushroom like normal. In any event, it will hopefully do what it's design to and I'm content with thise 2 test videos and spec.

Our houses around here are seperated by just a 15 ft wide driveway. Hence, trying to make sure it won't leave the house. My house is old and has plaster/lath walls. The wood is like steal now. Only thing left for me to worry about is all my loved ones are behind me and any gun fire.

I have the first 3 rounds Air Freedom in both my 45s and the rest, normal rounds. Mostly due to the price. I try get them when they are on sale online, but they go quick! Never seen them locally.

[bhunted 887]

High Ex- I can understand the air crafts fusulage not being the big problem, but what about the windows?

[High Exposure 5,664]

High Ex- I can understand the air crafts fusulage not being the big problem, but what about the windows?

 

My uncle is a retired pilot for US Air, and my understanding from him is it doesn't matter. Any bullet, frangible, FMJ, HP, will or won't blast out an airliner window so it doesn't matter.

 

What does matter however is that a blown out window in real life is not like it is portrayed in the movies. Yes it wil be windy and loud, but no one is getting sucked out the window. SOP is to descend and land ASAP anyway, so altitude and air pressure changes quickly becomes a non-issue.

[bhunted 887]

Good to know.... Thanks.

 

 

My uncle is a retired pilot for US Air, and my understanding from him is it doesn't matter. Any bullet, frangible, FMJ, HP, will or won't blast out an airliner window so it doesn't matter.

 

What does matter however is that a blown out window in real life is not like it is portrayed in the movies. Yes it wil be windy and loud, but no one is getting sucked out the window. SOP is to descend and land ASAP anyway, so altitude and air pressure changes quickly becomes a non-issue.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

[Krdshrk 3,877]

My uncle is a retired pilot for US Air, and my understanding from him is it doesn't matter. Any bullet, frangible, FMJ, HP, will or won't blast out an airliner window so it doesn't matter.

 

What does matter however is that a blown out window in real life is not like it is portrayed in the movies. Yes it wil be windy and loud, but no one is getting sucked out the window. SOP is to descend and land ASAP anyway, so altitude and air pressure changes quickly becomes a non-issue.

 

Mythbusters tested this. There's no such thing as movie airplane-side-blown-off from a bullet through a window.

[Qel Hoth 33]

An airliner will not undergo explosive decompression if a few more holes, or even a window is blown out. You're only dealing with 5-10 psi difference between the inside and outside of the aircraft. Worst case is that if the hole is large enough and someone isn't restrained and us near the hole, they may be blown out, as in a structural failure of an aloha airlines flight a number of years ago.

[bhunted 887]

Dang, bad news then. I was on that same flight a week before... Yeesh. Talk about close?

 

An airliner will not undergo explosive decompression if a few more holes, or even a window is blown out. You're only dealing with 5-10 psi difference between the inside and outside of the aircraft. Worst case is that if the hole is large enough and someone isn't restrained and us near the hole, they may be blown out, as in a structural failure of an aloha airlines flight a number of years ago.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD