M1152 713 Posted February 14, 2013 Missed who the a-hole chairman that states it's his meeting is. Can someone let me know. I think it's Charles Mainor http://www.njleg.sta...bio.asp?Leg=322 take a look at post #6 and select the image, that is what we are dealing with. he's clearly isn't packing the gear to be a police officer but he's a natural as a NJ Politician Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ginerik1 0 Posted February 14, 2013 Unfortunately, This will pass. with a 60/40 dem majority, it ain't happening otherwise. Christie is the only one who can stop these bills with a stroke of the pen, or the lack there of. If he does veto.... the Dem's do not have a 2/3 super majority, and this will die. It all comes down to Christie. From this point forward, besides the barrage of calls/fax/emails that we will be doing to ALL the legislatures.... the only thing that will matter is Christie. It is time to put Christie's feet to the fire! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larrygeary 0 Posted February 14, 2013 Time for a mass education of the uninformed. If you mean educating the politicians or the voters about gun rights, it's a waste of time. Better would be to dig up all the dirt on the anti-2A politicians and use it against them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJDrew1 0 Posted February 14, 2013 take a look at post #6 and select the image, that is what we are dealing with. he's clearly isn't packing the gear to be a police officer but he's a natural as a NJ Politician I sent him a email to let him know how much I despise how the hearing was handled, and the release of the proposed legislation from committee by him and his 5 stooges. They say, be nice. It's too late to be nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ginerik1 0 Posted February 14, 2013 If you mean educating the politicians or the voters about gun rights, it's a waste of time. Better would be to dig up all the dirt on the anti-2A politicians and use it against them. That shouldn't be too hard with Democrats! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 828 Posted February 14, 2013 They say, be nice. It's too late to be nice. I agree. Being nice isn't working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M4BGRINGO 139 Posted February 14, 2013 Guys /Gals The NJ2AS has spent alot of money in the last two weeks. Please help your Soicety help you, by giving what you can . http://www.nj2as.com...07196&wofg=true The wife and I joined last night! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TooBigToFit 2 Posted February 14, 2013 You had the tablet? If so I saw you. ETA: Also thanks to Anthony. You really did a great job keeping everything moving outside. Yrp. I tried getting the feed, but it required Windows Media Player plugin. Which no mobile device supports. Yay for proprietary formats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olderguy 0 Posted February 14, 2013 take a look at post #6 and select the image, that is what we are dealing with. he's clearly isn't packing the gear to be a police officer but he's a natural as a NJ Politician And notice the video he has posted on his front page: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=348820361835617&set=vb.100001229685749&type=2&theater Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BleedingOrange36 0 Posted February 14, 2013 And notice the video he has posted on his front page: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=348820361835617&set=vb.100001229685749&type=2&theater And these are some of the people he subscribes to..... Really? He follows people even more ignorant than himself... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeFan 49 Posted February 14, 2013 If you mean educating the politicians or the voters about gun rights, it's a waste of time. Better would be to dig up all the dirt on the anti-2A politicians and use it against them. I agree with you 100000% The homeys in JC will continue to vote for Chairman Manure....we need to go guerilla on them....find as much dirt we can on these a-holes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted February 14, 2013 I want to thank the guys that stood outside. You guys got the short stick, I'm glad my buddies and I chose to drive and got there early. It is time we buy a few less fancy guns and accessories and spend out money on supporting whoever runs against these clowns. Personally I'm switching my party affiliation to democrat. so when I call them I can tell them "I am a democrat and oppose this crap" and so I can vote in the democrat primaries. This morning I despised them, tonight I'm ferociously pissed enough that I will vote for a retarded ham sandwich with leprosy, and help fund its campaign. It is time we put our money where our mouth is. Also, you might have missed some hilarity when Matt dared them to have him removed from the room. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djg0770 481 Posted February 14, 2013 That was Jen from the Bullet Hole +1 to her! Holy SHIT! Ray just gave props to the Bullet Hole! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hd2000fxdl 422 Posted February 14, 2013 If you mean educating the politicians or the voters about gun rights, it's a waste of time. Better would be to dig up all the dirt on the anti-2A politicians and use it against them. Add that to the list,, time to pull out all the stops. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1152 713 Posted February 14, 2013 I sent him a email to let him know how much I despise how the hearing was handled, and the release of the proposed legislation from committee by him and his 5 stooges. They say, be nice. It's too late to be nice. I completely understand, I joined NJGF & NJ2AS just because of NJ issues since IMO the NRA has bailed on us. I've seen this before with the Florio AWB, look at this this way with the Florio ban there was no CT shooting and that got rammed thru only because he had control in both houses. At least with this the Gov is the wildcard and *may* bail us out if it gets that far. I would agree with others if he wants a shot at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave he needs to veto all of this and not f**k around picking & choosing. And notice the video he has posted on his front page: http://www.facebook....&type=2 And these are some of the people he subscribes to..... Really? He follows people even more ignorant than himself... He's another POS NJ Politician, look at this bill A1021 which he an Coleman teamed up on, wonder how that came about. Do you think becasue Coleman's kid was in the can that had anything to do with it? Not that there is anything wrong with protecting the rights of those who paid their debts but this one was for Bonnie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larrygeary 0 Posted February 14, 2013 Here's an idea for a strategy, giving reason one last try: For each assembly/senate district in the state, we need a group of 5 people from this forum, Nj2AS, NRA or elsewhere who live in that district. They must be articulate and well informed about firearms. Each group of 5 should collaborate via email and produce a solid argument against each of the bills (except the ones we like). Then the group should ask for an in-person meeting with the assemblymen for that district. Present the case against each bill. Facts and reason, not emotion. Be prepared to counter the usual BS arguments and misinformation with facts. Note which arguments seem to work, and which don't. Improve the arguments based on the meeting with the assemblymen, and arrange to meet with the senator from that district. Again, hone the arguments based on the response. Finally, take the best arguments and five of the best presenters and ask to meet with Gov Christie. Make the case for a veto. Tell him he'll have our support for re-election if he vetoes the bills. Anyone have a better strategy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
H.M. Murdock 0 Posted February 14, 2013 I want to thank the guys that stood outside. You guys got the short stick, I'm glad my buddies and I chose to drive and got there early. It is time we buy a few less fancy guns and accessories and spend out money on supporting whoever runs against these clowns. Personally I'm switching my party affiliation to democrat. so when I call them I can tell them "I am a democrat and oppose this crap" and so I can vote in the democrat primaries. This morning I despised them, tonight I'm ferociously pissed enough that I will vote for a retarded ham sandwich with leprosy, and help fund its campaign. It is time we put our money where our mouth is. Also, you might have missed some hilarity when Matt dared them to have him removed from the room. I think I was sitting next to you guys in the main room (me: dark suit). You three tore it up towards the end of the hearing. Well done!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luso 6 Posted February 14, 2013 Had privilege of spending the day in Room 4. These assembleyman spent the day whispering to their aids and playing on their cell phones when many of the speakers were testifying. The chair seemed to think this was "his" meeting, and not one for the public. They tried to vote first and then have everyone speak after (what the hell is the point then?). The chair, who is a an officer, insinuated that replacing a magazine takes 20 seconds. Count 20 mississippi's and think about that. Nora (the "navy" lady) dared to question the chair when they weren't paying attention to her, and after being thoroughly embarrassed, the chair realized his mistake and suddenly boomed over Nora and the crowd to assert this is HIS meeting and he will not be disrespected. (to those wondering about her, she's happily married.. sorry boys) The Ceasefire speakers would not answer questions directed at them. The representatives NEVER answered a direct question from a testimony. They would sit in silence. However, when they smelled a poor speaker in support of the second amendment (let's be honest, there were a handful) they pounced on them with snide comments. They chose their battles wisely. Genius tactics, attack the weak in the herd, and then abstain from responding to any questions. At this point, it isn't a dialogue. It's one side lecturing another who isn't listening, and then proceeds with their votes with their minds already made up. They hated the clapping. Multiple times they demanded the clapping to stop. The state troopers in the back-right of the room were even smirking at a few of the asinine assumptions made by the representatives. While all the bills can be argued against, some like the photo ID are literally redundant. When explained to the reps that any transaction requires a photo ID in addition to your FID, they didn't seem to know that, and didn't care. Instead, they literally voted to spend money on something that is already accomplished under current law. On a critical note, people need to abstain from these arguments about lofty idealism and dreams of a pure republic. Not because they are wrong, the points made are correct, but they do not connect or have an impact on these people. You have to make your testimonies about the actual bills. We need to demonstrate the hypocritical nature of the bills, show facts of where these laws fail elsewhere, etc. Some of you mentioned Cryan has a CCW....with those hours and hours of testimony, why didn't person bluntly say" My name is John Smith, and I have one question. Does representative cryan have a concealed carry permit granted by the state of NJ?" Put the ball in their court. Too much time was spent playing defense. The life of liberty-minded New Jerseyans is an eternal defense. You need to take the game to them. Put them out of their comfort zone. You need to ask them "if you pass these 24 bills, will any of you sign your name off and attest that you guarantee a statistical, substantial drop in gun crime in the cities of newark and camden?" (they won't, which makes for good theater). Will you all voluntairly disarm all your security details on your campaigns to mimic the protections enjoyed by the citizens under these new laws? ( they will not, again, good theater). Why is it that law enforcement, who by supreme court precedent have no obligation to protect us, get a reprieve from these gun restrictions when they are retired and no longer serving? Are there lives more important than (insert your 5 year olds name)? Why do you hate children but love retired officers? These conversations have to become much more tactically offensive. Otherwise we will spend our lifetimes defending their salvos , and they have zero incentive to stop. You have to breach their hulls. In conclusion, good fight, glad to be present among my friends and familiar faces, disgusted by the process and management of the hearing, but at the end of the day I expected nothing less than these results. It's not over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msokad 3 Posted February 14, 2013 So basically we have a Gov that would like to be President. What we need to do is also enlist our fellow 2nd Amendment friends from other states to fax, email and call Christie and let him know they will not vote for him if does not veto these bills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonmedic 0 Posted February 14, 2013 I completely understand, I joined NJGF & NJ2AS just because of NJ issues since IMO the NRA has bailed on us. I've seen this before with the Florio AWB, look at this this way with the Florio ban there was no CT shooting and that got rammed thru only because he had control in both houses. At least with this the Gov is the wildcard and *may* bail us out if it gets that far. I would agree with others if he wants a shot at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave he needs to veto all of this and not f**k around picking & choosing. He's another POS NJ Politician, look at this bill A1021 which he an Coleman teamed up on, wonder how that came about. Do you think becasue Coleman's kid was in the can that had anything to do with it? Not that there is anything wrong with protecting the rights of those who paid their debts but this one was for Bonnie Sounds to me you have some dirt right there from the facebook postings. I know nothing about this arse clown but from looking at the two links above he looks pretty dirty and some good stuff to start with. Just my two cents... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larrygeary 0 Posted February 14, 2013 So basically we have a Gov that would like to be President. What we need to do is also enlist our fellow 2nd Amendment friends from other states to fax, email and call Christie and let him know they will not vote for him if does not veto these bills. There will never be another Republican president. It's Democrats all the way down... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nickel1911 0 Posted February 14, 2013 I'd like to take a moment to thank you ALL for your efforts on trying to preserve what's left of our 2nd amendment right here in Jersey. All efforts count. JMO, I think if we keep our emotions in check, continue to educate those ignorant to firearms and the culture, and continue to bombard the politicians and all media with statistics and historical facts, we will prevail. Again... THANK YOU ALL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acuevo 0 Posted February 14, 2013 we must keep pushing christie. and if he DOES veto these bills we all MUST MUST MUST turn out to vote for him in november. we've been sending him a clear message, lets continue to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Metalflames 0 Posted February 14, 2013 This is all about politics, not rational laws. National Dems have told NJ Dems to put Christie in a hard place so he says out of the national lime light. It also gives the Dem govenor front runner a platform to run against him. We, including are freedoms are all pawns in a much bigger game. Politics is no longer melding of sane ideas and prudent laws. It's dog eat dog at the public watering trough. Nick was right long time ago, Obama wants the states to give him the control he desires even though the House and Senate cannot deliver. He will claim victory as soon as they do it. I don't know what National Dems have promised NJ Dems. What NJ Dems haven't figured out yet, is he will screw them too in a heartbeat. He cares about nobody but himself. Time to choose your party wisely. Time to divide and conquer from within. A party can only support one canidate. The key to changing our elected officials is to sweep them out in the primaries, not wait and run head to head in the general election. You can vote for anyone in the general election, but only your registered party in the primary This my friend is brilliant! I suddenly have the urge to change my party affiliation. I urge everyone her to do the same. Divide and conquer!!!. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Metalflames 0 Posted February 14, 2013 Some of you mentioned Cryan has a CCW....with those hours and hours of testimony, why didn't person bluntly say" My name is John Smith, and I have one question. Does representative cryan have a concealed carry permit granted by the state of NJ?" Put the ball in their court. Too much time was spent playing defense. The life of liberty-minded New Jerseyans is an eternal defense. You need to take the game to them. Put them out of their comfort zone. You need to ask them "if you pass these 24 bills, will any of you sign your name off and attest that you guarantee a statistical, substantial drop in gun crime in the cities of newark and camden?" (they won't, which makes for good theater). Will you all voluntairly disarm all your security details on your campaigns to mimic the protections enjoyed by the citizens under these new laws? ( they will not, again, good theater). Why is it that law enforcement, who by supreme court precedent have no obligation to protect us, get a reprieve from these gun restrictions when they are retired and no longer serving? Are there lives more important than (insert your 5 year olds name)? Why do you hate children but love retired officers? These conversations have to become much more tactically offensive. Otherwise we will spend our lifetimes defending their salvos , and they have zero incentive to stop. You have to breach their hulls. In conclusion, good fight, glad to be present among my friends and familiar faces, disgusted by the process and management of the hearing, but at the end of the day I expected nothing less than these results. It's not over. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^AGREED^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bowling Ball 22 Posted February 14, 2013 Had privilege of spending the day in Room 4. These assembleyman spent the day whispering to their aids and playing on their cell phones when many of the speakers were testifying. The chair seemed to think this was "his" meeting, and not one for the public. They tried to vote first and then have everyone speak after (what the hell is the point then?). The chair, who is a an officer, insinuated that replacing a magazine takes 20 seconds. Count 20 mississippi's and think about that. Nora (the "navy" lady) dared to question the chair when they weren't paying attention to her, and after being thoroughly embarrassed, the chair realized his mistake and suddenly boomed over Nora and the crowd to assert this is HIS meeting and he will not be disrespected. (to those wondering about her, she's happily married.. sorry boys) The Ceasefire speakers would not answer questions directed at them. The representatives NEVER answered a direct question from a testimony. They would sit in silence. However, when they smelled a poor speaker in support of the second amendment (let's be honest, there were a handful) they pounced on them with snide comments. They chose their battles wisely. Genius tactics, attack the weak in the herd, and then abstain from responding to any questions. At this point, it isn't a dialogue. It's one side lecturing another who isn't listening, and then proceeds with their votes with their minds already made up. They hated the clapping. Multiple times they demanded the clapping to stop. The state troopers in the back-right of the room were even smirking at a few of the asinine assumptions made by the representatives. While all the bills can be argued against, some like the photo ID are literally redundant. When explained to the reps that any transaction requires a photo ID in addition to your FID, they didn't seem to know that, and didn't care. Instead, they literally voted to spend money on something that is already accomplished under current law. On a critical note, people need to abstain from these arguments about lofty idealism and dreams of a pure republic. Not because they are wrong, the points made are correct, but they do not connect or have an impact on these people. You have to make your testimonies about the actual bills. We need to demonstrate the hypocritical nature of the bills, show facts of where these laws fail elsewhere, etc. Some of you mentioned Cryan has a CCW....with those hours and hours of testimony, why didn't person bluntly say" My name is John Smith, and I have one question. Does representative cryan have a concealed carry permit granted by the state of NJ?" Put the ball in their court. Too much time was spent playing defense. The life of liberty-minded New Jerseyans is an eternal defense. You need to take the game to them. Put them out of their comfort zone. You need to ask them "if you pass these 24 bills, will any of you sign your name off and attest that you guarantee a statistical, substantial drop in gun crime in the cities of newark and camden?" (they won't, which makes for good theater). Will you all voluntairly disarm all your security details on your campaigns to mimic the protections enjoyed by the citizens under these new laws? ( they will not, again, good theater). Why is it that law enforcement, who by supreme court precedent have no obligation to protect us, get a reprieve from these gun restrictions when they are retired and no longer serving? Are there lives more important than (insert your 5 year olds name)? Why do you hate children but love retired officers? These conversations have to become much more tactically offensive. Otherwise we will spend our lifetimes defending their salvos , and they have zero incentive to stop. You have to breach their hulls. In conclusion, good fight, glad to be present among my friends and familiar faces, disgusted by the process and management of the hearing, but at the end of the day I expected nothing less than these results. It's not over. That's the problem, these bills will not stop, every six months from now on, they will keep bringing these bills up. Thankfully for now we have 1 hope left, thats the Gov. Could anybody imagine if Corzine was still in? These bills would've been passed with flying colors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,441 Posted February 14, 2013 These conversations have to become much more tactically offensive. Otherwise we will spend our lifetimes defending their salvos , and they have zero incentive to stop. You have to breach their hulls. While I agree I'm skeptical. If these people could be swayed by logic we would have seen it today. From what i heard and read They were bombarded with logic for 5 hours and it didn't matter. I don't know how but we have to play their game. Confront, deflect, and I don't know... Logic doesn't seem to work when they only listen to their Party. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted February 14, 2013 Its time to get our wookie suits from the cleaners. They need to figure out that you have to let the wookie win. These people don't care about reason, they only recognize power and money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,441 Posted February 14, 2013 Another thought... If some of these bills are signed can they immediately be challenged in court? Depending on the NY challenge we may be able to get an injunction. At least then they couldn't be implemented untitled heard by the courts. Maybe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites