Hollow point arrest in Logan township

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Cite NJ's definition of a hollow point bullet and continue the conversation...

[maintenanceguy 510]

Out of State LEO asked the NJSP about carrying hollow point ammo in NJ got this reply:

 

As per state statute, based on the reason for your visit (vacation), and as you will not be engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S. 2C:39-6, you are prohibited from carrying hollow point ammunition in your handgun while in New Jersey.

Be advised that the Association of Firearm and Toolmark Examiners (A.F.T.E.)define “hollow point” as “a bullet with a cavity in the nose to facilitate expansion.” According to the New Jersey State Police Ballistics Unit, three alternative rounds to a hollow point are identified by the Ballistics Unit as follows:

Hornady Critical Defense
Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket
Corbon / Glaser PowR Ball

Each use a different technology to facilitate expansion and do not have a “hollow” cavity. In the case of the PowR Ball and the Critical Defense, each uses a polymer to fill the “cavity,” and therefore are considered to be Expanding Type bullets falling short of a “hollow point.”

 

Original email here: http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i428/krdshrk2/njsp_hollowpoint.jpg

[Combat Auto 174]

Some Cops, some firearms dealers (I met one), and some gun owners don't know the law...See my post above and carry a printout with you whenever you are using HPs to/from/at the range...Not sure WTH "baned" means which some are saying above...If you do what most legal shooters do in NJ with them you are fine.

[ryan_j 0]

Good luck in court, haha... Make sure you print out that thread to hand to an LEO.

 

There is plastic implanted in the "hollow nose of the bullet".

Could be argued for anything to be honest. And nowhere I am legally allowed to possess a handgun am I disallowed from using hollow points anyway so the point is moot.

[Tack Tickle 0]

The major problem with the NJSP stating that is they are not state legislators. That is their interpretation of the law.

 

The only true non-hollow point expanding round is the Federal Guard Dog expanding full metal jacket.

 

Any good prosecutor could pull that apart.

 

Some Cops, some firearms dealers (I met one), and some gun owners don't know the law...See my post above and carry a printout with you whenever you are using HPs to/from/at the range...Not sure WTH "baned" means which some are saying above...If you do what most legal shooters do in NJ with them you are fine.

[Tack Tickle 0]

I agree. Major problem with the way NJ legislation is written.

 

Could be argued for anything to be honest.

[tony357 386]

this is not true.. 

hollow point ammo is NOT an add on charge... it is a charge if the person is not operating within the exemptions.. 

I disagree. how do you here about people being charged with hollow point ammo, always after they were charged with something else, As soon as you break a law they add having hollow point ammo to the charges if you are in possession.

[ryan_j 0]

The major problem with the NJSP stating that is they are not state legislators. That is their interpretation of the law.

 

The only true non-hollow point expanding round is the Federal Guard Dog expanding full metal jacket.

 

Any good prosecutor could pull that apart.

 

 

NJSP firearms unit is the authority on firearms in the state. At the very least they are an expert witness.

 

The law says hollow nosed bullet. Yes the judge can make shit up but they can do that for anything. But since NJSP defined what it is, I would trust this over some assumption.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

NJSP firearms unit is the authority on firearms in the state. At the very least they are an expert witness.

 

The law says hollow nosed bullet. Yes the judge can make shit up but they can do that for anything. But since NJSP defined what it is, I would trust this over some assumption.

Exactly. Take it a step further and they base there idea on what the ATF says, "a bullet with a cavity in the nose to facilitate expansion". No cavity... no hollow nose. If the cavity is filled with plastic... the cavity ceases to exist... even if it facilitates better expansion, even if its made of plastic... the material holds no bearing.

[Combat Auto 174]

The major problem with the NJSP stating that is they are not state legislators. That is their interpretation of the law.

 

The only true non-hollow point expanding round is the Federal Guard Dog expanding full metal jacket.

 

Any good prosecutor could pull that apart.

 

I'll take my chances with the NJSP instructions...Lets face it, everything is subject to interpretation when it comes to law (and most things in life BTW) - so keep a good lawyers card at the ready.

[Tack Tickle 0]

Unfortunate part is the exact opposite could be said. "Just because its plugged with plastic doesn't change the fact that is has a cavity to facilitate expansion"...

 

Just playing semantics at this point, haha... or Devil's advocate.

 

Exactly. Take it a step further and they base there idea on what the ATF says, "a bullet with a cavity in the nose to facilitate expansion". No cavity... no hollow nose. If the cavity is filled with plastic... the cavity ceases to exist... even if it facilitates better expansion, even if its made of plastic... the material holds no bearing.

[Jon 264]

Sorry, but IMO the polymer tipped HP ammo letter became null and void after the Aitken case came to fruition. See here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/37222-hollow-point-transportation/?p=496188

[vladtepes 1,060]

I disagree. how do you here about people being charged with hollow point ammo, always after they were charged with something else, As soon as you break a law they add having hollow point ammo to the charges if you are in possession.

 

because the law that they broke initiated the LEO interaction that cause LEO to discover HP ammo outside of exemption.... 

[tony357 386]

because the law that they broke initiated the LEO interaction that cause LEO to discover HP ammo outside of exemption.... 

Correcta mundo..

 

And if anything FMJ ammo should be on the banned list not HP as it would be more likely for a FMJ round to go through an officers vest.. 

[siderman 1,138]

Sorry, but IMO the polymer tipped HP ammo letter became null and void after the Aitken case came to fruition. See here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/37222-hollow-point-transportation/?p=496188

 

 

^^^THIS^^^-    the Aitken judge's more recent ruling(aka, the final word) that "any bullet designed to expand more than normal" is a hp trumps the NJSP interpretation in IMO too.

[PeteF 1,044]

^^^THIS^^^- the Aitken judge's more recent ruling(aka, the final word) that "any bullet designed to expand more than normal" is a hp trumps the NJSP interpretation in IMO too.

And it continues. Lets make a completely subjective criteria a law.

"Expand more than normal" what the hell does that mean?

Is a efmj a normal round? So any bullet that expands less isn't a hollowpoint?

[ryan_j 0]

Sorry, but IMO the polymer tipped HP ammo letter became null and void after the Aitken case came to fruition. See here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/37222-hollow-point-transportation/?p=496188

 

The judge made up a lot of stuff, including that you can't transport hollow points between properties you own.

 

In any case, for most of us it's moot. NJ LEO can use hollow points and the rest of us can't carry anyway. Only the 900 or so people who have carry permits will be affected by this. 

[Combat Auto 174]

The judge made up a lot of stuff, including that you can't transport hollow points between properties you own.

 

In any case, for most of us it's moot. NJ LEO can use hollow points and the rest of us can't carry anyway. Only the 900 or so people who have carry permits will be affected by this. 

Well put; this was what I was saying above...You said it even better...It is moot unless you have a Carry.

[raz-0 1,259]

I disagree. how do you here about people being charged with hollow point ammo, always after they were charged with something else, As soon as you break a law they add having hollow point ammo to the charges if you are in possession.

 

It is NOT an add on charge like some states have "use a gun go to jail" laws. They are an add on to another offense. You in theory could be charged with illegal possession of a hollow point and nothing else. In practice, you usually have to do something else to warrant a search that turns up the hollow point. Short of having them in plain view without a reasonable claim to legality, finding them would require probable cause, which is unlikely to exist if you aren't doing something else. Hence it will always tend ot look like an add on charge. Which leads me back to the best advice I ever got form an LEO: Never break more than one law at a time. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

It is NOT an add on charge like some states have "use a gun go to jail" laws. They are an add on to another offense. You in theory could be charged with illegal possession of a hollow point and nothing else. In practice, you usually have to do something else to warrant a search that turns up the hollow point. Short of having them in plain view without a reasonable claim to legality, finding them would require probable cause, which is unlikely to exist if you aren't doing something else. Hence it will always tend ot look like an add on charge. Which leads me back to the best advice I ever got form an LEO: Never break more than one law at a time.

 

This is correct. A few months ago I searched and found only one case in the past 10 years where someone was charged with only Poss of Hollowpoints. That was a guy checking his gun in at Newark Airport IIRC.

 

The only thing to be learned from the Aitken case is not to be stupid like him.

[richtr186 0]

So if we have hollow points at our home, it is legal as long as they never leave? So then can you use it for defensive purposes or no? And also playing devils advocate, if you have some of the winchester jacketed hollow points you cant tell by looking at it that it is a HP because it is jacketed and doesnt have a visible void. In any case, ill be sure to remember this and not to buy or transport anything but FMJ in this lovely state

[njpilot 671]

So if we have hollow points at our home, it is legal as long as they never leave? So then can you use it for defensive purposes or no? And also playing devils advocate, if you have some of the winchester jacketed hollow points you cant tell by looking at it that it is a HP because it is jacketed and doesnt have a visible void. In any case, ill be sure to remember this and not to buy or transport anything but FMJ in this lovely state

You can use them in your home for self defense. You can also transport them to the range and back.

[ChrisJM981 924]

So if we have hollow points at our home, it is legal as long as they never leave? So then can you use it for defensive purposes or no? And also playing devils advocate, if you have some of the winchester jacketed hollow points you cant tell by looking at it that it is a HP because it is jacketed and doesnt have a visible void. In any case, ill be sure to remember this and not to buy or transport anything but FMJ in this lovely state

You can use them in your home, at the range, or at an NRA sanctioned match.

[Combat Auto 174]

So if we have hollow points at our home, it is legal as long as they never leave? So then can you use it for defensive purposes or no? And also playing devils advocate, if you have some of the winchester jacketed hollow points you cant tell by looking at it that it is a HP because it is jacketed and doesnt have a visible void. In any case, ill be sure to remember this and not to buy or transport anything but FMJ in this lovely state

There is so much miss-information about hollow points...See my link above, print it, carry it in your range bag.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I pity the Poor Dumb Bastard drivin'-around with an unsealed box of Federal .22 LR HP bouncing around in his trunk on the way to or from the range.  If you stop short and the box tips over and some .22's spill-out and wedge themselves down into the voids of the wheel wells or next to the spare tire--you're a Felon if you don't find EVERY LAST one of those little suckers?  That's how fricken STUPID NJ law IS!

 

So fellas, this HP law BS isn't only about Man-Stoppers in center fire rifle and pistol variants, it's also about PLINKING ammo too!  How many of us had a jammed .22 round come out of our guns?  How many pick them up to take apart later?  How many of us have them for a day or two rolling-around in our change pocket til we get to the workbench to take them apart?  See what I'm sayin' here?

[deerpark 83]

So, ALL hollow point ammuntion is illegal in NJ, correct? 

[Tack Tickle 0]

NO, think of them as having a pistol in your vehicle. On the way to the range, or on your way home from the range...

 

As ChrisJM981 said "You can use them in your home, at the range, or at an NRA sanctioned match."

 

So, ALL hollow point ammuntion is illegal in NJ, correct? 

[ChrisJM981 924]

I forgot hunting. You can use them for hunting. I don't hunt and I'm pretty damn tired today so I don't feel like looking. We've been over this in muliple threads. Use the NJGF search feature.

[ChrisJM981 924]

So, ALL hollow point ammuntion is illegal in NJ, correct?

It's illegal in NJ with exemptions. You have to fit within the exemptions. They're available on the NJSP website.

 

Edit: http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=18185736&Depth=4&TD=WRAP&advquery=2C%3a39-1%20%20Definitions&headingswithhits=on&infobase=statutes.nfo&rank=&record={1A38}&softpage=Doc_Frame_Pg42&wordsaroundhits=2&x=34&y=12&zz=

 

It won't link properly. You're looking for 2C:39-6

[Shawnmoore81 623]

What about hollow point rimfire ammo for ground hog hunting?