david8613

shot gun home defense ammo what is recommended?

240 posts in this topic

Okay. So, birdshot is the safest, but what about penetration into flesh? Which round will stop a human? I'd like to see penetration tests on someone (simulated of course) wearing a leather jacket with a wall behind.
Or winter coats. Or body armor as today's thugs are wont to do. The more I think about it the more slugs seem like a viable option, at least in limited use cases. At least have a round or 2 on hand...

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, GRIZ said:

@Ray Ray deer are still hunted in many places with buckshot.  Deer hunting is where it got its name "buck" shot.

Stop bringing facts into this discussion Griz. Ray is right because he wants to be. His arguments are emotion driven and facts have no place here.

Christ, it’s almost like liberalism. :facepalm: 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we need to do our own tests and post them here.  

We will use all the common rounds and at 3 different distances.  7, 10 and 15 yards. 

Low brass birdshot

00

#4

Slug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

Maybe we need to do our own tests and post them here.  

We will use all the common rounds and at 3 different distances. 

Because that experiment hasn’t already been done hundreds of times before...

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paul, inside 7 yards IT IS ALL THE SAME!

 

Whether it is or it isn’t... are all your shots guaranteed to be within seven yards? The longest shot in my house is down the hallway; ranch with bedrooms on one side of the house, kitchen/laundry room/den on the opposite side, with a living room in between. A common shot with someone coming into the line of sight at the end of the hallway would be at least double your range. If someone decided to walk in and hug the wall that the wood burning stove was on (not common, as the kitchen setup would make it not as likely... but could happen), it would be close to triple your distance. Would be a little longer than triple the range if I decided to sit in the bathtub of the bathroom at the end of the hall. Likewise, if someone came through the living room, it would be anywhere between seven and ten yards (there is a couch on the wall nearest the bedrooms, which would likely push someone at least that far out). The only way someone could get into my line of sight within seven yards would be climbing on the couch and jumping out into the hallway.

 

While people can choose whatever they want, and should do their own testing, I’ve done mine. My PDX1 keeps the three 00 inside a torso within all ranges I need it to. And a slug isn’t just going to piss someone off, if it gets further out. Dick Cheney’s hunting buddy is a prime example of that...

 

I’ve yet to see compelling data that birdshot is anything other than a load for birds (live and clays). If it is the same as 00 within seven yards, no reason not to go 00, in case your engagement distance extends further. If you live in a place that you have to worry about over penetration, I’d really rethink the shotgun as your go-to firearm (maybe a pistol with frangible ammo). In that case, if I had to shoot someone, I’d rather have something that can do the job the entire distance than something that could just piss them off at a likely common distance in my home (we have an alarm/dogs for a reason, and that spot in the hallway is my position to keep an intruder away from myself/my fiancé).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buckshot is the most popular round for deer in NJ. By far. 

Like anything else it has its limitations but can be extremely effective. 

Have to pattern it to see what your gun likes. 1buck for me all day long. For deer or zombies. Lol. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've used #4 for deer but not a fan. Unless the deer was inside 20-25 yards it needed a follow up shot. 

My opinion and it's not a popular one with deer clubs, is they use #4buck to knock the deer down. Once down then they can get closer to kill it.  I've killed too many deer with my bow later in the season to find 4buck under the skin. 

For home defense inside 45' I do think 4buck would be insanely devastating. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think all of you guys are overthinking this. you're all acting like you think superman's gonna come through that door, when in fact it'll be some skinny drunk ass loser. pretty much anything you hit em with will stop em, unless they're wound up on crack, in which case you might need more. all one really need worry about is over-penetration when ya miss. other than that.....hit em with target ammo 99.9% of them will re-think their choices very very quickly.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

i think all of you guys are overthinking this. you're all acting like you think superman's gonna come through that door, when in fact it'll be some skinny drunk ass loser. pretty much anything you hit em with will stop em, unless they're wound up on crack, in which case you might need more. all one really need worry about is over-penetration when ya miss. other than that.....hit em with target ammo 99.9% of them will re-think their choices very very quickly.

Rock Salt it is. Thanks.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/9/2018 at 1:21 PM, Ray Ray said:

Paul, inside 7 yards IT IS ALL THE SAME!

@Ray Ray it's really not.  I think I've told this story before.

I know of a guy who tried to commit suicide using a single barrel 12 gauge.  High brass #4 or #6 birdshot.  He wound up shooting himself in the shoulder.  Contact wound, maximum velocity, shot hadn't even left the wad.  He was an average size guy and only a few pieces of shot got to his scapula which stopped it. That was maybe 4-5" of penetration.

He almost succeeded although he shot himself in the shoulder. He took out a chunk of his brachial artery. Having second thoughts, he walked about 100' to his next door neighbor.  Banged on the door for help.  Laying on the steps fully conscious although you could take his pulse by watching the blood spurt from his shoulder.

The only reason he lived IMO is the wad plugged the entry wound and there was very little blood at the initial scene.  When the wad popped out at his front door he left a very easy blood trail to his neighbor's front porch. 

If he had used 00 he undoubtedly would have blown his shoulder apart and bled out through the entry and exit wound.  That wasn't his day to die though.

So much for birdshot for SD and cut shells.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are plenty of people running around who have survived gunshot wounds, it's actually a testiment to how tough the human body is.  

I stand by my statement and have since moved on to prove other people wrong.  I feel it is my job to do this.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

There are plenty of people running around who have survived gunshot wounds, it's actually a testiment to how tough the human body is.  

I stand by my statement and have since moved on to prove other people wrong.  I feel it is my job to do this.

You are fired

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are plenty of people running around who have survived gunshot wounds, it's actually a testiment to how tough the human body is.  
I stand by my statement and have since moved on to prove other people wrong.  I feel it is my job to do this.
Not too many of those survived slugs I'd bet :)

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/5/2018 at 6:24 AM, High Exposure said:

Yup.

Contrary to the popular saying:

Practice does not make perfect - It merely makes permanent.

It should be: 

Perfectly Performed Pertinent Procedures Practiced Properly Produces Perfection.

 

Or, DT’s ‘6Ps’....Proper Practice Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

rolls off the tongue nicer...:p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

Great channel.  He proves my point.  Real talk

But why choose less lethal bird shot when there are better choices! Better yet, why not dust off that AR15 in your safe and make that your go to HD weapon? Makes sense to use the best tool for the job at hand!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

But why choose less lethal bird shot when there are better choices! 

No such thing in a round being "less lethal".  Also, what is better for some is worse for others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No such thing in a round being "less lethal".  Also, what is better for some is worse for others.


Actually, it is no such thing as non-lethal...

Less lethal is accurate, meaning there is more of a chance of a non-life threatening injury compared to life threatening, but the latter isn’t completely taken off the table. Bean bag rounds, for example, can be used in a way people would consider non-lethal... but have that bean bag connect to the skull, and the blunt trauma will very likely kill someone. A taser isn’t designed to kill someone, but have someone with a poor cardiovascular condition, it very well could. Reason why they moved from using non-lethal to less lethal as a description.

Would I call birdshot less lethal? Kind of on that line that could be argued... but definitely not for birds, though.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now