Snow Removal, Bridgewater...

[Mrs. Peel 7,158]

Hi! After years of personally handling snow removal for an elderly relative's residence, my brother and I are ready to outsource. I got 1 quote (a commercial & residential contractor who does a great job). But, I was flabbergasted by the price. I need a sanity check... and perhaps some other bids!

 

The property:

• Bridgewater, on the border of Bound Brook
• a double driveway leading up to a double garage. Driveway has just enough room to park 4 cars. There's also a narrow apron, and a sidewalk stretching across the front of the lot, all adding up to approx 972 sq feet of open, flat space. Other than a small porch retaining wall to the right of the driveway, NO big obstructions - no overhanging tree limbs, no cars, etc. All accessible by snow blower...  or by plow for the driveway (you know, one of those moveable plows that you can scoop, lift up and then dump to the side).
• There's also a small raised porch with several curved, stepped platforms that cascade down to meet the driveway, all with railings - so that's an additional approx 108 sq feet that would have to be cleared with a shovel.

I was looking for someone to clear all of that and drop salt when it snows. (For comparison, for a few inches of snow, at a steady, but leisurely pace it takes my brother 1/2 hr using a shovel... takes me about 50-60 min, going at a snail's pace. So, with a plow and a few young guys - we both think this is quite literally about a 10 min job in a modest snow event.

 

I was quoted $120 for each snow event (and that's only for up to 6" of snow)!  I almost fell over!  Seriously? Ummm... that's like $720 an hour! I wasn't expecting that at all. Is that normal?

 

​If you do snow removal in that area and can give me a superior price - or you have a referral - please PM me. But...I must (MUST!) have someone RELIABLE with excellent references. Not someone miles out of the area or with 1 rickety old plow that breaks down all the time. We cannot have a "no show".  God forbid there's a medical emergency, we need to know that house is accessible.

 

​Thx so much!

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Sota here on the forums does plowing - he's close to Bridgewater.

[PK90 3,573]

No neighbor kids in that area? I would kill to do it for a few bucks when I was young.

[SmittyMHS 603]

No neighbor kids in that area? I would kill to do it for a few bucks when I was young.

You didn't have video games then. 

[Purple Patrick 638]

Definitely ask sota. Hell I'll come shovel it for ammo and a 6 pack

 

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[Sota 1,191]

Not close enough, sorry.

I will only cover Berkeley Heights, New Providence, some parts of Watchung.

 

Your belief of costs ($720/hour???) is way off base. No one is going to send "a few young guys" to do your lot; Probably 2 guys and a truck; one to push and one to shovel/blow/salt. Plow guys don't like to get out of their trucks generally.

Every person on the crew gets paid by the hour, so time wasted driving around is time lost to the boss. So it'll be minimum crews most of the time.

$120 up to 6", means they're hoping to come out once. More than 6" gets hard on gear and people, or they're coming out extra times.

Most places will bill by what's called "the push"... basically each time they show up.

If that price includes salt and shoveling of sidewalks and walkways then I'd say that's NOT that terrible.

 

I'm $10/inch, minimum $20 charge, cash payment only, due first Saturday after a storm.

No shoveling, no salting is in that price. Just pushing snow off driveways, and I can handle gravel.

 

Either you're doing it yourself, enlisting family, finding neighborhood kids with a good work ethic (good luck,) or you're looking at the costs as you've been presented.

[Mrs. Peel 7,158]

Oy! Thanks Sota, for the informative, yet depressing breakdown on pricing - here and through your PMs. I'm gobsmacked. I really was waaaaay off-base on my expectations. I can see this is actually a perfect job for an entrepreneurial, responsible teenager --- but, ummm, do they exist anymore? LOL. There happens to be almost no teenagers in that neighborhood.. except for one right next door, who's so chubby and video game-obsessed that he doesn't even help shovel his OWN damn driveway. So, ummm... no help there! He's far too spoiled.

 

I guess a backburner plan is to hire the snow removal company to take care of the bigger events only --- the kinds of storms that could make it difficult for my brother or I to get there. (That's when we're really freaking out with worry anyway). In the meantime, I'm going to search around locally through word-of-mouth.... and I'll switch the mail over to a P.O. box, so at least we can prevent our relative from stubbornly insisting on crossing his slippery driveway to get the mail! (Why are old dudes so damn stubborn? Rhetorical question).

[Heavyopp 167]

Everyone seems to forget about the liability the plow guy takes on as soon as he touches your property --

 

 Who's gonna get sued once someone falls and you have a contract to have snow and ice handled --  The guy you hired -- his insurance company -- and they will pay wether or not it was your contractors fault then raise his rates

 

That liability costs money

[Purple Patrick 638]

Everyone seems to forget about the liability the plow guy takes on as soon as he touches your property --

 

Who's gonna get sued once someone falls and you have a contract to have snow and ice handled -- The guy you hired -- his insurance company -- and they will pay wether or not it was your contractors fault then raise his rates

 

That liability costs money

Going thru this exact thing right now. It's going to cost us no matter what happens

 

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[Mrs. Peel 7,158]

Yeah, Sota was mentioning the insurance as well. Dummy me, I just didn't even consider liability - I was expecting a price more like lawn service. That's why I was so stunned. Oh, well! On to Plans B & C.

[njplinker 8]

Any friendly neighbors in the neighborhood with a snowblower that will help out your father? I used to do the elderly lady's driveway across the street till she moved and I know another neighbor down the street that does the driveway for the elderly couple next to him.

 

You could offer to pay them or buys gifts to say thank you. The lady across the street was an odd bird and wouldn't even come out to say thanks, but I just couldn't watch her try to do it herself.

[SmittyMHS 603]

Oy! Thanks Sota, for the informative, yet depressing breakdown on pricing - here and through your PMs. I'm gobsmacked. I really was waaaaay off-base on my expectations. I can see this is actually a perfect job for an entrepreneurial, responsible teenager --- but, ummm, do they exist anymore? LOL. There happens to be almost no teenagers in that neighborhood.. except for one right next door, who's so chubby and video game-obsessed that he doesn't even help shovel his OWN damn driveway. So, ummm... no help there! He's far too spoiled.

 

I guess a backburner plan is to hire the snow removal company to take care of the bigger events only --- the kinds of storms that could make it difficult for my brother or I to get there. (That's when we're really freaking out with worry anyway). In the meantime, I'm going to search around locally through word-of-mouth.... and I'll switch the mail over to a P.O. box, so at least we can prevent our relative from stubbornly insisting on crossing his slippery driveway to get the mail! (Why are old dudes so damn stubborn? Rhetorical question).

HEY!!! I resemble that!!!

lol

[njplinker 8]

Any friendly neighbors in the neighborhood with a snowblower that will help out your father? I used to do the elderly lady's driveway across the street till she moved and I know another neighbor down the street that does the driveway for the elderly couple next to him.

 

You could offer to pay them or buys gifts to say thank you. The lady across the street was an odd bird and wouldn't even come out to say thanks, but I just couldn't watch her try to do it herself.

[Mrs. Peel 7,158]

Any friendly neighbors in the neighborhood with a snowblower that will help out your father? I used to do the elderly lady's driveway across the street till she moved and I know another neighbor down the street that does the driveway for the elderly couple next to him.

 

You could offer to pay them or buys gifts to say thank you. The lady across the street was an odd bird and wouldn't even come out to say thanks, but I just couldn't watch her try to do it herself.

 

You're a good egg, NJPlinker! :-) For many years, this relative did the same - he took care of his snow removal AND the properties on either side (one was a miserable widowed lady who also never said "thanks"). I mean, for years he did that. But, then households changed, etc.- faces changed. The new folks are more removed. So, all those years of paying it forward - he's not seeing the same kindness in return. Different times, I'm afraid. People are busy, distracted - less interested.  But, I'm determined to cast my net for a teenager in the neighborhood who's saving for a car or something. There must be one. I'm not giving up hope! Meanwhile, we'll probably contract with this company just to handle any big snow events.

 

Eldercare is a balancing act, I've found - you juggle, you compromise, you cobble together solutions. It's ain't perfect, but it usually works out. :-)

[Rob0115 1,105]

Snow removal is expensive. I don't know how big your driveway is (length, width) and how many feet of walkway. I have a long, 2.5 car wide driveway with large parking area (greater than 4 cars across for,when we entertain) next to side car garage, 140 feet of frontage and a reasonably long front walkway. I pay way more than that for up to 6", think 2x, but will ask my wife for sure

[Zeke 5,504]

Yep, waiting till it ends to do the block with my snowblower. Usually the Nieghbor's drop off beer and treats.

 

Mrs peel. As sota said. It is what it is.

 

But since your getting acclimated to the winter. Prolly a shotgun shootout soon.

 

For those of you like me of able body, make friends and help your Nieghbor's out.

Jus sayen

[Handyman 5,682]

Sheesh, I used to shovel a drive that size for $15 when I was a kid. Of course that was during the Lincoln administration.

[fishnut 2,358]

I shoveled driveways, mowed lawns, and raked leave saving all my money when I was 11. Turned 12 and got my hunting licenses then gave my dad cash to go and buy a browning BPS 20g. I learned that you have to work hard to have nice things. Stuck with me ever since.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Made a killing as a kid shoveling.

[Sota 1,191]

get the old fart a lawn tractor or a quad with a plow on it. added a cup holder and a heated seat, and he'll have a blast.

[Golf battery 1,223]

120 sounds correct. If they have insurance. My plow insurance went from 2500$ last few years to. 11,000.00$ this year. Needs to be paid up front in full. If we have a no snow year. Im losing money while having to get up all hours of the night and beating up my equipment. I just got done with my snow sites and adding it up its about 3-350$ per hour i charge. So for 120$ that is right in the ball park.

[capt14k 2,052]

I guess prices are higher in North Jersey. In Central Jersey for a double driveway that fits 8 cars and a K turn area you could park a 9th I pay $60 for 6-12" including (15) 6' wide steps and two 4x6' platforms. Salt on the steps and platform. Under 6" I do it myself. Over 12" the price goes to $100. The negative is he does mine last after his commercial sites including my commercial building.

 

For the commercia building I pay $600 over 4" which includes salt and sidewalks Under 4" he charges $200.

 

As for the sidewalk one neighbor with a snowblower does 8 houses. He also does the aprons which can get piled pretty high. Sometimes he will even do the driveways.

 

Keep looking around someone will do it for $50 without salt. A neighborhood kid would likely do it for $50 and salt if you provide the salt.

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[djg0770 481]

It's not JUST the video games...

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/28/teens-seeking-snow-shoveling-cash-run-afoul-law/22454761/

[gleninjersey 2,141]

No neighbor kids in that area? I would kill to do it for a few bucks when I was young.

Actually had some kids ring my bell to inquire about shoveling. I was impressed.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

It's not JUST the video games...

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/28/teens-seeking-snow-shoveling-cash-run-afoul-law/22454761/

I remember that. That's just nuts! Back in early 80's I made $200 shoveling snow one day after a big storm. Was out most of the day on my "snow day". I LOVED when it snowed. Also had a paper route for a little while.

[SmittyMHS 603]

It's not JUST the video games...

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/28/teens-seeking-snow-shoveling-cash-run-afoul-law/22454761/

Been cleared up by good ol Christy!

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/01/19/nj-snow-shoveling/

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

Yeah, Sota was mentioning the insurance as well. Dummy me, I just didn't even consider liability - I was expecting a price more like lawn service. That's why I was so stunned. Oh, well! On to Plans B & C.

Snow plow liability insurance is getting out of control on NJ. About 10 years ago NJ passed tort reform for auto accidents (State Farm and a few other large insurance companies were making plans to stop selling auto insurance in NJ). This reform created caps on the amount of payouts for most injuries that result from auto accidents. While this was good for NJ motorists, by increasing competition (Geico and others started selling insurance in NJ again), it put a lot of trial lawyers who specialized in these lawsuits out of work. So, they switched to a category that had not limits on lawsuits - slip and falls. This has lead to a huge increase in (mostly frivolous and ridiculous) lawsuits against snow removal companies. The insurance companies are responding to this by either dropping snow removal liability coverage altogether or raising premiums dramatically.

 

The landscape associations and SIMA have been lobbying Trenton to pass tort reform or at least prohibit property owners from pawning liability off on the snow removal companies (which is becoming standard practice with real estate management companies). But, trying to get politicians (who are mostly all lawyers) to fix this problem is near impossible. It's going to get to the point that only Lloyd's of London is going to provide snow removal liability insurance in NJ - and that won't be cheap. It's probably going need to get to a crisis point (like auto insurance did) before they act.

[Sota 1,191]

You can add in the schools that are no more than lawyer farms, that for over a decade did nothing but flood the market with more "lawyers", and you can see how they're all having to chase every ambulance they can, just to pay off their student loans.

[Zeke 5,504]

Snow plow liability insurance is getting out of control on NJ. About 10 years ago NJ passed tort reform for auto accidents (State Farm and a few other large insurance companies were making plans to stop selling auto insurance in NJ). This reform created caps on the amount of payouts for most injuries that result from auto accidents. While this was good for NJ motorists, by increasing competition (Geico and others started selling insurance in NJ again), it put a lot of trial lawyers who specialized in these lawsuits out of work. So, they switched to a category that had not limits on lawsuits - slip and falls. This has lead to a huge increase in (mostly frivolous and ridiculous) lawsuits against snow removal companies. The insurance companies are responding to this by either dropping snow removal liability coverage altogether or raising premiums dramatically.

 

The landscape associations and SIMA have been lobbying Trenton to pass tort reform or at least prohibit property owners from pawning liability off on the snow removal companies (which is becoming standard practice with real estate management companies). But, trying to get politicians (who are mostly all lawyers) to fix this problem is near impossible. It's going to get to the point that only Lloyd's of London is going to provide snow removal liability insurance in NJ - and that won't be cheap. It's probably going need to get to a crisis point (like auto insurance did) before they act.

This is very true.

I don't professionally plow. But it is a question on my annual audit for liability insurance.

I never looked into how much it would increase $

Interesting point.

Thankyou