1st Semi-Auto

[bipr8 0]

My background is in shotguns but I also have 3 revolvers. I dont even have the revolvers near for HD reasons (I have an 870 for that). However, I would like to purchase my 1st semi-auto for HD but I am clueless.

 

My main reason for the semi is that I dont keep my stuff loaded at home due to 2 small kids. I used to have my revolver at the ready with a speed clip sitting next to it, but i fumbled all over it trying to load it and doing it bullet by bullet would take me forever too.

I also have my 870 under the bed with the shells in a sleeve over the stock but would like the speed of simply sticking a clip into a semi (even I could that).

 

 

 

The main thing and probably the million dollar question is which caliber.

It will ONLY be used for HD purposes and will only get shot once a year at best just to test it out (so ammo cost isnt that big a deal).

I do have 2 kids at home so I would be a bit worried about bullets going through walls if that is a deterent for one caliber vs the next even though I would assume any caliber would make it through drywall.

I also would want a laser pointer/sight on it as well, do they come already installed or are they after market add ons?

 

Also, what is the largest magazine that you can legally use in NJ?

So, what would you suggest?

Caliber?

Barrel length?

Brand?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Old School 611]

Will your wife have access to this pistol and use of it as well. If so what is her commitment(and yours) to training?

How will you store the pistol?

 

15 round MAGAZINE is the legal max in NJ.

 

Don't discount the revlovers with GOOD speed loaders. You may not have to buy anything additional for defense.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Will your wife have access to this pistol and use of it as well. If so what is her commitment(and yours) to training?

How will you store the pistol?

 

15 round MAGAZINE is the legal max in NJ.

 

Don't discount the revlovers with GOOD speed loaders. You may not have to buy anything additional for defense.

 

What Frank said, a revolver is a great home defense tool.

[MedicYeti 96]

I love my semi's but I also use a revolver for IDPA competitions, with practice my revolver reloads have become quite quick, (snap caps and speed loaders).

Asking what gun is like asking what car to buy, everyone has different prefrences and there are lots of options. Any handgun caliber will sail through drywall. Any centerfire caliber will do work to protect your home and family. Many people choose 9mm or larger. My carry/HD handgun is a Walther PPKs in .380 for a couple reasons: it is easy for my wife and I to use, the caliber is powerful enough to stop someone but won't endanger my neighbors the way a .357 mag would and it's also my carry gun due to size and ease of concealment. I have a son, 20 months, who gets into things so my gun is locked away but easily accessable to my wife and I. It is in a safe which is: hidden and not easily accessable for a little guy, high off the ground, and locked with the keys near by but also hidden and out of reach. The gun has a loaded magazine in it but no round chambered. I also keep a flashlight with it.

I practice getting the gun out of it's hiding place while blidfolded. On nights where my wife is working and my son is staying with grandparents I set an alarm in the middle of the night and practice getting the gun when awakened from sleep and in the dark. Some may call me paranoid but that doesn't mean there not out to get me. :ph34r:

There are some ranges in the state which allow people to rent guns. There are also meet ups of forum members where people are willing to share. Try as many guns as possible before investing the money in one. Good Luck.

[Malsua 1,422]

Semi-auto what?

 

You're talking about a pistol?

 

The #1, one shot, one stop cartridge is the .357 magnum, which is a revolver round of course.

 

You can get a laser on most common handguns, some come with the grips like a Crimson Trace grip or they are integrated like the the Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380. Others can be added to an accessory rail.

 

As for caliber choices, 9mm or more powerful but without going overboard. Some calibers, like 10mm are too much when you consider it's a light but adequate round to kill smaller bears.

 

Choose between 9mm, .40 and .45.

 

If you're not going to shoot it much then ammo cost isn't an issue get a .45.

 

I'm of the opinion that Glocks, Sigs and H&Ks are the only guns I consider as failproof. Other guns can also do just fine, but those three brands will almost always go bang when you pull the trigger. I'm not a fan of Glock ergonomics but mechanically they are rock solid. Everyone has an opinion.

[djg0770 481]

Everyone has an opinion.

 

And some of them are just WRONG!

 

Agree with Malsua regarding 9mm, 40 or 45 for a semi auto.

[kenw 293]

The first thing to consider is keeping whichever gun you decide on safe from the kids, but still reasonably accessible in case you ever need it. There are a variety of small bedside safes available that are designed for quick access if you need to reach for your gun, but keep it secure from prying little hands.

 

As for a particular gun, my advice is to shoot as many different specimens as you can get your hands on. An HD gun has to feel comfortable for you, and you need to be confident that you can effectively use it when you may be half asleep and in the dark. This is where practice, and maybe some training, come into play. Most of us shoot regularly, and the guns we take to the range are also the guns we keep close by for HD. Muscle memory becomes even more important in the middle of the night when the adrenaline is pumping.

 

Revolvers are great HD tools. Grab it, identify your target, and if necessary, pull the trigger. No safety to fumble with, no magazine to seat, no slide to rack. Unless you're concerned that a squad of armed militants are planning to break in for your loose change, the 5, 6,or 7 rounds in a revolver are plenty of deterrent for a casual smash and grab incident.

 

.357 is an outstanding HD round, and you can practice with less expensive .38 to become comfortable with the gun.

 

If your heart is set on a semi, almost any modern gun will meet your needs. Glock, Sig, S&W, et al all have reputations for reliability and accuracy, and the deciding factor is which one feels right for you.

 

Come out to the meetups. We all are happy to share our guns with new people, and you'll have an opportunity to sample a wide range of different choices.

 

I have a particular opinion of lasers as an HD tool. I don't care for them. First of all, if you can't see your target, you need more light. A laser, as cool as the little red dot looks, isn't going to tell you if the person you're pointing your gun at is really a viable target. Get a good flashlight, and learn how to use it to identify your potential target.

 

Good luck with your search, and stay safe.

[djg0770 481]

As far as beside safes go, there are a multitude of options and price ranges.

 

If you are budget conscious, I recommend this: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=313144

If not, consider Gunvault.

There's also a non-electronic push button combination safe: http://www.gunsafes.com/Top-Draw.html

[Krdshrk 3,878]

That cheap electronic "safe" can be pried open pretty easily from what I've heard.

 

Keep an eye out on Amazon.com for the Barska Biometric safe. I got mine pretty darn cheap when it goes on sale.

 

Actually - it's decently priced right now. I got it for $150 though:

http://www.amazon.com/Barska-AX11224-BARSKA-Biometric-Safe/dp/B002AQ0PFW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1297694650&sr=8-1

[vladtepes 1,060]

everyone will give you an opinion.. so here is mine.. I like 40S&W for caliber and I like Glock for a reliable self defense gun... it is no frills.. no external safeties to forget about.. load.. charge.. shoot.. they come in 3 different sizes.. some don't like the grip.. if you can deal with the ergonomics and 40S&W Glock is a good choice IMO...

 

with that said.. my primary HD gun is a cx4 carbine...

 

A carbine in a handgun caliber offers a few positives..

 

* Size: when you pick up a SMALL carbine and shoulder it.. your body is naturally pretty tight and compressed up.. making for a smaller target..

* Stability: a gun that you shoulder will be more sturdy than a gun you are holding in the air.. also aids in follow up shots..

* Velocity: a carbine has a longer barrel than a pistol giving it a little more velocity

* Ammo: because it is a pistol caliber you can get lots of good self defense ammo to cater to your needs (minimizing over penetration for example)

* reduced perceivable recoil: because it is a larger gun and you are shouldering it.. the perceived recoil is less..

 

I used to always think of my Glock as my HD weapon.. but after a lot of range time with the CX4 it really seems like the best choice..

[Maksim 1,504]

Vlad, here is one, how are you going to hold a kid in one hand and a carbine in another? Or a shotgun for that matter. A point I picked up from Chet at Shoot NJ.

 

I agree with all the others. There is no right or wrong. I would simply practice practice practice with the revolver before deciding to buy another gun, and a completely different system.

 

Take a home defense class.

Sign up and shoot a few idpa or uspsa matches with your revolvers.

 

You will have those reloads down to a science. If you buy a new pistol and shoot it once a year, yet another liability. As they say, its not the arrow, its the Indian.

 

Final note on training, after 2 years with a gun, shooting it at least twice a month, 100 rounds a trip, and daily dry firing, I am starting to feel comfortable with my hd gun, an hk p30l. You have to practice.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Vlad, here is one, how are you going to hold a kid in one hand and a carbine in another? Or a shotgun for that matter. A point I picked up from Chet at Shoot NJ.

 

I agree with all the others. There is no right or wrong. I would simply practice practice practice with the revolver before deciding to buy another gun, and a completely different system.

 

Take a home defense class.

Sign up and shoot a few idpa or uspsa matches with your revolvers.

 

You will have those reloads down to a science. If you buy a new pistol and shoot it once a year, yet another liability. As they say, its not the arrow, its the Indian.

 

Final note on training, after 2 years with a gun, shooting it at least twice a month, 100 rounds a trip, and daily dry firing, I am starting to feel comfortable with my hd gun, an hk p30l. You have to practice.

 

+1

great point.. one I had not considered since I am childless.. lol but seriously it is a valid point..

 

but what you said is %100 sure.. there is NO perfect right or wrong answer.. just different answers for different users..

[Old School 611]

Oh yeah!!! I'd hold my kid like a human shield...

 

Never shot a pistol caliber carbine one handed? Points just as well or easier than a handgun.

 

 

You guys kill me...

[bipr8 0]

Thanks guys, after taking your advice, I think I am going to purchase a top knotch speed loader and practice with that and stick with my Smith 586.

[Old School 611]

Thanks guys, after taking your advice, I think I am going to purchase a top knotch speed loader and practice with that and stick with my Smith 586.

 

 

Smart decision!!

[kenw 293]

Spend the saved money on a safe, a flashlight, ammo to practice with and a training class.

[djg0770 481]

That cheap electronic "safe" can be pried open pretty easily from what I've heard.

 

 

Really Nick? We're talking about keeping it out of the hands of children, not some meth-head or a teenager.

 

 

 

 

Frankly, with the tools in my garage, I can make short work of most "safes". I finally gave my dad back the biggest threat to "safedom" - the 2 cycle gas powered demolition saw.

[dave545 15]

one shot one stop not the 357 mag pssst the 44 mag even if you miss the guy he will have a heart attack just from the bang and the flame from the barrel will give him some nice burns from across the room

[vjf915 456]

If you really want to look for a new semi-auto, my recommendation would be to gu to your local gun store and hold as many as possible. You will never know what you like until you hold it in your hand, and nit-pick ever feature of every gun. Make sure that it holds comfortable in your hand, that the sights line up correctly when you point it, and that your finger can move comfortably from outside the trigger guard to the trigger. For a HD gun, you want it to all fall in naturally. If one of those things don't work, move onto the next gun.

[EchoMirage 137]

It will ONLY be used for HD purposes and will only get shot once a year at best just to test it out (so ammo cost isnt that big a deal).

 

 

the first thing to do is shoot it a hell of a lot more then once a year. no sense in having an HD gun that youre not 100% comfortable and familiar with.

[Jon 264]

I echo most of the above statements. If you're set on a semi-auto, go to a rental range and shoot various weapons until you find something comfortable. If the 586 is what you know, and like, buy some range ammo and good quality speedloaders. Then take it to the range and attend a class or two. You'll be far better prepared than just buying a semi-auto and hoping for the best.

[NJKen 23]

FWIW I finally settled on the Taurus Judge for HD purposes. 2 .410's and then in case that doesnt stop em, 3 45's. I wouldnt really want to fire anything that can go through the walls with enough force to harm someone outside. With the 45's I have more firepower already loaded in case I get a crazed meth head!

Ken

[tony357 386]

I just let the light bulb cool and replace it with a new one of the same kind.

[notmetoo 41]

My HD gun is a 1911 with an 8-round magazine in .45 cal. In a real situation that's, hopefully, seven more rounds than I will need. 45 ACP is a stopper, 9mm is a little too light, especially if you're hosting a violent a-hole junked up on meth (YMMV).

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Ken, excellent choice! I gots one too, but mine will double as a concealed carry piece.

 

Andy, it's not what bullet your shooting. It's hitting your intended target where he (or she) needs to be hit. A 9mm round is an excellent choice for a home defense caliber. Don't buy the internet hype on hating the Euro pellet.

[vjf915 456]

It's hitting your intended target where he (or she) needs to be hit.

/thread

 

It is such a cliche that it's annoying, but a COM hit with a .9mm is better than a miss with a .45. Go with what you are COMFORTABLE with. I am not advocating that everyone switch from .45 to 9mm. If you can handle .45 and feel comfortable that you can hit targets where they need to be hit....more power to you (no pun intended).

[notmetoo 41]

Euro pellet - I like that! Don't get me wrong, I love 9s and my XD what shoots 'em. But I also have a 1911 and that's what I keep at my bedside. I'm lucky, since I have a choice. If controlling the recoil is a concern, absolutely 9mm will get the job done. I like the sound of the 870 best, though I understand the original poster's position.

 

Basically, I follow the Powell Doctrine: use overwhelming force to defeat the enemy. I'm still shopping for that Ma Deuce.

 

 

Ken, excellent choice! I gots one too, but mine will double as a concealed carry piece.

 

Andy, it's not what bullet your shooting. It's hitting your intended target where he (or she) needs to be hit. A 9mm round is an excellent choice for a home defense caliber. Don't buy the internet hype on hating the Euro pellet.

[Rifleman1 32]

My HD gun is a 1911 with an 8-round magazine in .45 cal. In a real situation that's, hopefully, seven more rounds than I will need. 45 ACP is a stopper, 9mm is a little too light, especially if you're hosting a violent a-hole junked up on meth (YMMV).

 

 

I'd be interested to find a comparison between a .45 ACP and 9MM when loaded with Hornady Critical Defense Ammunition JHP Flex Tip eXpanding.

[Malsua 1,422]

I'd be interested to find a comparison between a .45 ACP and 9MM when loaded with Hornady Critical Defense Ammunition JHP Flex Tip eXpanding.

 

In terms of statistical "takedown" there is very little difference between 9mm and 45acp. It's a few percentage points. If you really want to take someone down, shoot them with a .357 magnum. It's #1.

[mcbethr 42]

I'm more of a shotgun guy too. I'm not a big fan of polymer pistols, but you may want to consider one critical feature.

 

You are used to shooting revolvers, you may want to consider the Glock, XD or basically any other kind of striker fired pistol, and there is a very simple reason why.

 

You are used to the "point and shoot" ergonomics of a revolver, the fine motor skill of flicking off a safety may seem very strange to you. The Glock and XD have no external safety for you to "forget" about if G-d forbid you ever have to use it.

 

There are probably plenty of Glock and XD Fans on this board who will be more than happy to let you try theirs out to see what feels best in your hand. I see that you are in New Egypt. Lots of people here shoot at Ft. Dix and would be happy to meet up.

 

Lasermax makes "guide rod" lasers for handguns, which will replace your slide's guide rod and ride inside the spring. It's an aftermarket part. I've seen integrated factory-installed lasers before on handgrips from Crimson Trace, but they usually seem to be on Berettas, Sigs and 1911's. If you get a later Generation Glock or Current XD, you have a rail mount underneath the lower receiver where you can add an light/laser on a rail. I would consider a rail mounted flashlight to be more important than the laser for home defense needs. But if you are set on it, you can get both in one package.

 

Caliber has been discussed over and over again. If I just wanted a semi-auto for home defense that I was never going to carry anywhere and only shoot once a year, I would go with the .45. You can get 13 rounds with the modern polymer pistols. The limit in New Jersey is 15.

 

Barrel length? I don't have an opinion on that. You can't concealed carry in New Jersey anyway, so there is no reason to pay a premium for a sub-compact. I would buy a full-sized or compact, whatever fits in your hand.

 

With kids around, you have to get a safe.

Depending on where you live, you may not need one of those $200 biometric safes. You can get a simple bedside or keyed or combo safe for about $30. I have one and I use it for transporting a handgun to the range when I shoot in Philadelphia and don't want to drag my shotgun case there.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Secure-Handgun-Storage-Safe-Key/dp/B000HBB15U

 

This works well for transport. If I ever chose to use my handgun for home defense, I would have confidence that this would deter my kids, although it won't stop a determined thief.

 

Best of luck.