A 1911 that works correctly is just as rare as a Glock that doesn’t

[KpdPipes 388]

While Mr Yeager runs some REALLY good classes..his hatred of 1911's i treat like ANY Zealot. He's not a bad guy, but he;s one of those "My way or you're a Moron" guys...As i've said I have a 1911 that has had tens of thousands of rounds through it with never a problem other than with TWO magazines.

[tt-33 8]

a hundred years later we all know who browning was and more 1911s are produced and by more makers than ever but everyone is wrong he must be right after all hes on youtube

[Sivl32 27]

he must be right after all hes on youtube

 

^^This ^^ lol..

[Parker 213]

The internet and YouTube have become the real-time bully pulpit for others to promote their firearms expertise and knowledge, and sometimes bash other firearms in the process since it's often taboo to do so by noted gun scribes in magazines. A long time ago, most firearms were all pretty good. Of course, the bar continually gets raised and products get better, and along with that comes knowledge and demand from shooters for better tools. Then the internet came along and anyone willing to buy into the snake oil promulgated on gun forums and websites learned how little they thought they knew about firearms. After watching both videos, I realize I want back the 12 minutes of my life I just wasted. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of knowledgeable people out there, and much compelling information can be found on the internet, but many of these self-anointed ones are simply offering up their personal opinions.

 

Flashback - Remember the days when a 1911 was a Colt, and cheap copies were a Llama or a Star? How things have changed.

 

PS - I happen to like both brands he's talking about. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

[blksheep 466]

The internet and YouTube have become the real-time bully pulpit for others to promote their firearms expertise and knowledge, and sometimes bash other firearms in the process since it's often taboo to do so by noted gun scribes in magazines. A long time ago, most firearms were all pretty good. Of course, the bar continually gets raised and products get better, and along with that comes knowledge and demand from shooters for better tools. Then the internet came along and anyone willing to buy into the snake oil promulgated on gun forums and websites learned how little they thought they knew about firearms. After watching both videos, I realize I want back the 12 minutes of my life I just wasted. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of knowledgeable people out there, and much compelling information can be found on the internet, but many of these self-anointed ones are simply offering up their personal opinions.

 

Flashback - Remember the days when a 1911 was a Colt, and cheap copies were a Llama or a Star? How things have changed.

 

PS - I happen to like both brands he's talking about. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

I happen to like both platforms very much. You are right everyone has an opinion. I shoot everything then decide what I like.

[jermz1987 243]

Why are his hands moving so much!

[intercooler 41]

Yes, the original 1911 had an arched ms housing.

 

 

my 1918 made m1911 says no, it has an original as designed flat mainspring.

my "a1" versions say yes... (that is one of the differences from a 1911 to a 1911a1)

[RedBowTies88 41]

This guy's a Maximum Troll. Anyone that wears shirts like that (Affliction, Ed Hardy or whatever they are called) can't be taken seriously. He was probably bored or needed something to gen up pageviews

 

Could not of said it better myself.

 

 

He must of been bored between his "UFC" training and sunglasses shopping

[SW9racer 262]

I carry the 19 and 26 off-duty all the time.

 

On the 26, do you like the stock mag oem, with a pinky extension, or with a Glock +2 extension?

[blksheep 466]

Stock mag with extension.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Some of the best trained and experienced operators such as Navy Seals, Marine Force Recon, FBI Hostage Rescue Team, and LAPD Special Operations Division still issue and use 1911's in .45. That says alot to me! A single .45 well placed will drop someone just as well as 2 or 3 similarly placed 9 mm's. If my life depended on it I would take a .45 with ball ammo over a glock with any 9mm!

 

they make this round called 40S&w now.. it works well.. and it is what I carry.. in my Glock.. nothing wrong with a 1911..

 

but my glock does all a SD pistol needs to do..

hits center mass EVERY time

fires EVERY time...

and does it all at a relatively low cost..

 

I am rough on the gun.. have even dropped it on asphalt.. still runs every time..

[302w 83]

I wont watch the video because the guy looks like a roid raging D-bag with that shirt

[Shane45 807]

I admit to skiming this thread but its a topic ive discussed a million times. My take.

 

The 1911 was designed at a time when labor was cheap and technology was expensive. Machining the parts made out of the right materials was the expensive part. The group of old men that assembled them for 25 years was the cheap part. Today technology is the cheap part and labor is the expensive part, and MANY manufactureres try and get by with either cheap forign labor or skipping the labor under the guise of more precise technology. But in my opinion the 1911 simply wasnt designed to be built that way. And so in my opinion there is a bottom line for what a quality, properly functioning 1911 can be built for. A quality built 1911can be sufficiently tight AND reliable if it is built right. But that is the key. I understand the concept of economy of scale. But just how much can that account for the price of a pistol? I get a pretty signiificant discount on things and I still spend in the neighborhood of 1200 bucks for the parts to build a 1911. Then I put about 200 hours into it. Yes a portion of those hours are spent on cosmetics such as removing tooling marks etc etc but even if you half it, thats a lot of labor! So how does a 1911 for 500 bucks calculate? So the tons of manufacturers out there not building to a minimum standard or hedging their bets on ones that seem to run right vs the ones that need to be returned to be fixed give 1911's a bad name. But the squirt and jerk pistols are not without issue either! In fact if I compare my 2010 IDPA season, I witnessed more sigs and glocks go down than 1911's. Im talking about a failure that takes them out of the match. Broken locking bars. Sigs spitting out their extractors etc etc. Yes this is probably a sample data to small to really give full weight to, but it makes a point.

[RUTGERS95 890]

lots of good points here but a few that standout

 

1.shot placement is key

2.anything man made can brake

3.best to use what you are comfortable with and have trained with

4.glocks are ugly...

[Shane45 807]

1)AGREE

2)AGREE

3)AGREE

4)AGREE and glocks have a NPA like doo doo for some of us

[1911Fan 1]

As you can clearly see from my screen name, I am biased.

 

All my glocks are reliable as the sun rising every morning.

 

And so are all my 1911's.

 

That being said, as much as I love 1911's, 99% of the time, a box stock glock will work every time you pull the trigger. I do not feel that way about many production 1911's these days. Some run perfect, some don't. Unfortunately, my father's Kimber Warrior has been a problem child for us. I have a friend with the same pistol and his has never had a problem.

 

BUT, if you pony up the dough for a high end 1911, built by true pistol craftsmen, you will have what the 1911 can be as far as durability and reliability.

 

I have learned this expensive lesson through the years.

 

Just one example I will share.....I had a Wilson Combat Protector that I ABUSED. It was hard to do as I am known for cleaning guns, lol. I detail stripped, cleaned and lubed it well when I bought it, and never again. I wanted to know what it could take. I did oil as best as I could without field stripping every 1000 to 1100 rounds. That gun went 4,600 rounds without one malfunction or problem. Didn't even change the recoil spring.

 

I have done much worse to a cqb purchased in 2000. I NEVER cleaned it and I lubed it every 500 rounds. It went more than double that without a single hiccup.

 

It has been my experience that a well built 1911 can be a problem free gun that is boringly reliable.

 

Now if Glock would make a slightly more ergonomic pistol, with more of a 1911 / "sig-esque" grip angle, I believe they would most likely all but end production of other polymer pistols. The Smith and Wesson M&P pistol series seems to be as reliable as glocks according to some of my friends that own and abuse them. Sometimes I think I might have to get one and see for myself!

 

And yes, this guy seems like a bit of a douchebag. 1911 bias aside.

 

[LorenzoS 100]

Oh good, a 1911 vs. Glock debate. That's a new one. What will they think of next? A website with funny pictures of cats?

[Sivl32 27]

Oh good, a 1911 vs. Glock debate. That's a new one. What will they think of next? A website with funny pictures of cats?

 

Are you saying that someone has released a funny kitty website?!... omg YES!

[blksheep 466]

Are you saying that someone has released a funny kitty website?!... omg YES!

 

lol!

[Zell959 40]

 

 

I think the chart that you posted is all the proof I need. If you notice, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, and .45 auto all have much larger wound channels than the 9mm.

 

The majority of that is a temporary cavity that retracts back to normal moments after the shot passes through and it is NOT considered a significant means of wounding with handgun bullets. The only thing that chart actually evidences is that handguns suck compared to rifles.

[zoid 24]

It's a tough call really and like some have said no absolute right or wrong. My personal experience

has been that with reloads the Glocks I have shot more extensively have struggled. I borrowed a

34 for a match and had three double feeds in the first stage. My 26 also has the same issue sometimes.

Meanwhile my Kimber eats EVERYTHING (SWC, HP, FP) with pretty big variances in overall length.

 

However, the slide stop and slide had to be be replaced when I first got the Kimber as it had some pre

mature lock up issues. Out of the box an issue like this is VERY rare for a Glock.

 

Problem is he's making a bit too much of a generalization. I won't say his experiences and opinions don't

hold some weight given his experience and observations. But even with that said you still cannot speak

for everyone. There are also many qualified instructors at his level who would not hesitate to use a 1911.

[BigHayden 77]

The 1911 was the Glock of the early 1900's. It went something like 6000 rounds without a failure during the military trials, but it wasn't exactly accurate. The rise of practical shooting caused smiths and manufacturers alike to pursue tighter tolerances, making the 1911 more accurate, and consequently, more finicky. Glock had the benefit of modern manufacturing to make his guns both reliable and accurate.

 

As an aside, does anybody else wonder what JMB would have been able to do with today's technology if he were alive? The man's genius is still evident in guns made today, almost a century after his death.

[Shane45 807]

"making the 1911 more accurate, and consequently, more finicky"

 

Only if done incorectly...

[Maksim 1,504]

Glock had the benefit of modern manufacturing to make his guns both reliable and accurate.

 

Reliable? Sure. Accurate? Eh... don't see too many people shooting stock glock barrels toooo long.

 

1. Lead - Lots of folks want to fire lead, and no one wants a KB.

2. Accuracy - Old School here even went about how he dropped his stock glock barrel for KKM? to get the desired accuracy.

 

The reason why the glock is reliable is in part due to the loose tolerances.

 

As an aside... I have seen more glocks fail in Florida this weekend than I have SVI/STI/1911.... and there were a ton more 1911/2011 than glocks.

 

Would I use a block as a self defense gun? Absolutely, god forbid I had to use it, I would not want a nice 1911 taken away.

 

Glocks/high end 1911s are like cars. I would easily trust a hyundai to get me from point a to point b without issues (glock) but I still prefer my electronic gremlin BMW, it is that far nicer 99% of the time.

 

If you want uber reliable and much better gun... you get an Hk P30/Hk 45. Problem solved.

[Maksim 1,504]

Just a quick comment... as some may know, I was in Florida past 5 days or so to shoot and work the USPSA Florida Open, 400+ competitors, over 50% foreigners. In the production division, it was mostly all CZ's, SP01 Shadows, Tanfoglios, and M&P's. A few glocks. In the Limited/Open divisions, it was mostly all STI/SVI 2011 guns (high cap 1911's), and a few CZ's.

 

Foreigners were wealthy folks who can buy any gun they want as shooting is expensive over seas.... why did they not all buy Glocks? After all, Glock has a larger after market than any other production type gun.

 

With every match, I see less and less Glocks around. Tooo much Kool Aid.

 

Are Glocks reliable? sure... but lets not make it God's gift to earth, never mind the image portrayed in movies and all. There are plenty of plastic fantastic pistols out there that are as reliable and don't feel like a fisher price toy gun.

[Murphy4570 15]

I admit to skiming this thread but its a topic ive discussed a million times. My take.

 

The 1911 was designed at a time when labor was cheap and technology was expensive. Machining the parts made out of the right materials was the expensive part. The group of old men that assembled them for 25 years was the cheap part. Today technology is the cheap part and labor is the expensive part, and MANY manufactureres try and get by with either cheap forign labor or skipping the labor under the guise of more precise technology. But in my opinion the 1911 simply wasnt designed to be built that way. And so in my opinion there is a bottom line for what a quality, properly functioning 1911 can be built for. A quality built 1911can be sufficiently tight AND reliable if it is built right. But that is the key. I understand the concept of economy of scale. But just how much can that account for the price of a pistol? I get a pretty signiificant discount on things and I still spend in the neighborhood of 1200 bucks for the parts to build a 1911. Then I put about 200 hours into it. Yes a portion of those hours are spent on cosmetics such as removing tooling marks etc etc but even if you half it, thats a lot of labor! So how does a 1911 for 500 bucks calculate? So the tons of manufacturers out there not building to a minimum standard or hedging their bets on ones that seem to run right vs the ones that need to be returned to be fixed give 1911's a bad name. But the squirt and jerk pistols are not without issue either! In fact if I compare my 2010 IDPA season, I witnessed more sigs and glocks go down than 1911's. Im talking about a failure that takes them out of the match. Broken locking bars. Sigs spitting out their extractors etc etc. Yes this is probably a sample data to small to really give full weight to, but it makes a point.

 

Depends on who makes that $500 M1911. If built with USGI spec parts, it'll run with few issues.

 

Case in point: I own a ~$500 M1911, a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec model. It's a ittle fancier than their GI model, but the same parkerized pistol. I've only put about 200 rounds through it, but it has functioned just fine. Even with cheap $5 magazines, it feeds and functions without a hitch.

[BigHayden 77]

"making the 1911 more accurate, and consequently, more finicky"

 

Only if done incorectly...

 

There seemed to be a glut of incorrectly smithed 1911's during the rise of practical shooting.

 

Reliable? Sure. Accurate? Eh... don't see too many people shooting stock glock barrels toooo long.

 

Tell that to Cope Reynolds.

They may not be "match grade", but they certainly are more accurate than most shooters.

 

1. Lead - Lots of folks want to fire lead, and no one wants a KB.

2. Accuracy - Old School here even went about how he dropped his stock glock barrel for KKM? to get the desired accuracy.

 

Oddly enough, Cope also has a product that allows you to shoot lead in a stock Glock barrel without excessive leading. (Before people think I actually work for the man, I don't, but I listened to his podcast for a long time, and he seems to have a pretty good reputation.) As for Old School's accuracy issue, I don't think any gun model/manufacturer can actually claim 100% perfection on all their products (though Glock does try).

 

The reason why the glock is reliable is in part due to the loose tolerances.

 

Yeah, the same reason the 1911 was reliable from the early 1910's until the 1970's. Rattletraps make reliable guns. See the AK-47.

 

As an aside... I have seen more glocks fail in Florida this weekend than I have SVI/STI/1911.... and there were a ton more 1911/2011 than glocks.

 

Would I use a block as a self defense gun? Absolutely, god forbid I had to use it, I would not want a nice 1911 taken away.

 

Glocks/high end 1911s are like cars. I would easily trust a hyundai to get me from point a to point b without issues (glock) but I still prefer my electronic gremlin BMW, it is that far nicer 99% of the time.

 

If you want uber reliable and much better gun... you get an Hk P30/Hk 45. Problem solved.

 

It's funny, but my first post was defending the 1911 against the Glock, and this follow up has me defending the Glock against the 1911. As of this posting, I don't even own a Glock, but I have 3 1911's. I plan on picking up a Glock 19 this week as a home defense gun for the reason you pointed out above: If I do have to use it, I won't feel bad about it being taken into evidence and I can always go buy another one exactly like it. I completely trust my 1911's with my life, but I don't trust NJ with my 1911's.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Ahh, James Yeager of Tactical Response strikes again. That guy is a platinum-level shite-stirrer .

 

You may remember him from a previous brouhaha:

 

http://www.thefirear...training-video/

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/19/james-yeager-responds-to-the-controversial-training-video/

[raz-0 1,259]

Depends on who makes that $500 M1911. If built with USGI spec parts, it'll run with few issues.

 

Case in point: I own a ~$500 M1911, a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec model. It's a ittle fancier than their GI model, but the same parkerized pistol. I've only put about 200 rounds through it, but it has functioned just fine. Even with cheap $5 magazines, it feeds and functions without a hitch.

 

It has SA's crappy bar stock extractor, which has a short lifespan. If you want to shoot 175pf and under loads, expect a lifespan around 2-3k before you start getting a lot of FTEs (you might get more, but that is the range I ahve seen most failures). If you shoot hotter factory ammo, and keep the heavy mainspring and recoil spring, you'll likely see closer to 5-7k. A proper spring steel extractor will go MUCH longer than that, as will an aftec. Cost to fix is between $30-80 depending on what you choose.

[blksheep 466]

I am staying out of this one