Kokesh raided

[HavocMan 13]

Oh no! Not that! How dare him support something be legal...that multiple states already have and numerous more have decriminalized...excellent point.

Why anyone would even WANT to ingest a chemical that alters their perception of reality is beyond me. Go ahead, maybe you, Kokesh, Obama and Manson can get together. Have a blast.

[njpilot 671]

No, he deserves the death penalty for advocating revolution against the Federal Government of the United States of America.

 

Um. Have you ever read The Declaration of Independence?

 

“... That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their Safety and Happiness.”

 

“Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty to throw off such Government and to provide new Guards for their future Security.”

—The U. S. Declaration of Independence, 1776.

 

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Why anyone would even WANT to ingest a chemical that alters their perception of reality is beyond me. Go ahead, maybe you, Kokesh, Obama and Manson can get together. Have a blast.

altering peoples perception of reality? really? Our gooberment does a pretty good job doing that with out any chemicals.... were not talking about acid here...

[W2MC 1,699]

He appears to be an outright traitor. Hanging is too good for that sort.

AMEN

[Soju 153]

Why anyone would even WANT to ingest a chemical that alters their perception of reality is beyond me. Go ahead, maybe you, Kokesh, Obama and Manson can get together. Have a blast.

You are a peculiar person.

 

First, I don't nor do I have any desire to 'ingest' marijuana. But I am capable of comprehending reasons that people want too. Apparently you don't possess the ability to comprehend such things. Disagreement doesn't usually prevent being able to understand things, but maybe it does.

 

Second, I'm pretty sure Kokesh is very much against Obama, so grouping them together (and even more oddly and out of left field, with Manson), is pretty pointless. Nice logically fallacy too.

[ryan_j 0]

He appears to be an outright traitor. Hanging is too good for that sort.

Yeah the govt should be able to spy on us in peace. What we don't know won't hurt us. Government is good and will always take care of us.

[Donobieus 15]

Yeah the govt should be able to spy on us in peace. What we don't know won't hurt us. Government is good and will always take care of us.

 

That ^  +1  How can anyone call him a traitor when his crime was bringing to light clear violations of our 4th amendment rights by our own government????

 

• Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[HavocMan 13]

Yeah the govt should be able to spy on us in peace. What we don't know won't hurt us. Government is good and will always take care of us.

So it's ok to commit treason if you discover another crime? Two wrongs do not make a right. Go check your supply of tin foil

[Soju 153]

So it's ok to commit treason if you discover another crime? Two wrongs do not make a right. Go check your supply of tin foil

Which part of the definition of treason is he guilty of?

 

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Are you suggesting the citizens of the US are also the enemies of the US or that he is levying war?

[Vlad G 345]

 Regarding Snowden

 

 

He appears to be an outright traitor. Hanging is too good for that sort.

 

Interesting position.

 

So treason is a pretty big charge, and in fact the one and ONLY crime defined in the US Constitution itself (that document you swore to protect btw). I'll included here for your convenience

 

 

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort

 

So lets look at that, has he levied war against the US? I think we can agree he hasn't is not like he shot even a water balloon at the US.  Has he adhere to our Enemies? Well, you could make an argument he is doing that now, after we canceled his passport with no due process, but really is he adhering to anyone we label an enemy? Is Russia a declared enemy? Iceland? Venezuela? China? Have we declared war against any of these guys? No?

 

OK of he isn't levying war, and not adhering to an enemy we are left with providing Aid and Comfort.  Okie I'll bite, who did he aid or provide comfort to? Specifically? I'm only asking for specifics of who he has aided because you are accusing the man of the highest crime we have, so I'm thinking there might be some burden of proof on your side here. Its not like terrorists were not aware of our methods (hint: Check out the signals isolation Osama was using). Now a lot of our FRIENDS seems pissed (Like all of Europe, South American, etc), but really providing aid and comfort to our friends seems hardly like treason, does it?

 

So, specifically can you tell me how Snowden might be guilty of treason?

 

While you at it, please describe to me the penalties for infringing on the 1st, 2ed, 4th, 5th, and apparently 3ed amendments by the government. Really probably a few more, but lets just worry about the first few for now. I'm a bit rusty, so help me out.

[Pythagoras 2]

 

Considering that the man exposed to the mainstream the egregious violations of the Constitution by the federal government, he is a traitor to the feds but a patriot to the country.

^This! Mark Twain strikes again: Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.

 

HavocMan: There's a difference between the country and the government. I love our government's structure (it makes a lot of sense with balance of power/checks and balances) but NOT some of our current officeholders. The difference is important.

[Melgamatic 66]

Why anyone would even WANT to ingest a chemical that alters their perception of reality is beyond me. 

Tell me you don't drink before you post drivel like that.

[Pythagoras 2]

Um. Have you ever read The Declaration of Independence?

 

“... That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their Safety and Happiness.”

 

“Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty to throw off such Government and to provide new Guards for their future Security.”

—The U. S. Declaration of Independence, 1776.

 

 

+1 million

[KevD 0]

No, he deserves the death penalty for advocating revolution against the Federal Government of the United States of America.

I advocate the same .. The government should be the ppl .. This is no longer the case we need to restore this country to its former greatness...

[Vlad G 345]

No, he deserves the death penalty for advocating revolution against the Federal Government of the United States of America.

 

 

Also could you please support your death penalty statement, or do you think we should make up laws as we go along?

 

The law that applies here is 18 USC § 2385.  The maximum penalty is 20 years in prison. Do you think we should just start killing people without changing the law? 

 

It should be noted that this law (originated by the Smith Act) has been changed a few times as SCOTUS found various part of it unconstitutional over the years. It seems rather hard to apply because it has to be a very specific circumstance or it runs afoul of First Amendment.

[Pythagoras 2]

Regarding Snowden

 

 

 

Interesting position.

 

So treason is a pretty big charge, and in fact the one and ONLY crime defined in the US Constitution itself (that document you swore to protect btw). I'll included here for your convenience

 

 

So lets look at that, has he levied war against the US? I think we can agree he hasn't is not like he shot even a water balloon at the US. Has he adhere to our Enemies? Well, you could make an argument he is doing that now, after we canceled his passport with no due process, but really is he adhering to anyone we label an enemy? Is Russia a declared enemy? Iceland? Venezuela? China? Have we declared war against any of these guys? No?

 

OK of he isn't levying war, and not adhering to an enemy we are left with providing Aid and Comfort. Okie I'll bite, who did he aid or provide comfort to? Specifically? I'm only asking for specifics of who he has aided because you are accusing the man of the highest crime we have, so I'm thinking there might be some burden of proof on your side here. Its not like terrorists were not aware of our methods (hint: Check out the signals isolation Osama was using). Now a lot of our FRIENDS seems pissed (Like all of Europe, South American, etc), but really providing aid and comfort to our friends seems hardly like treason, does it?

 

So, specifically can you tell me how Snowden might be guilty of treason?

 

While you at it, please describe to me the penalties for infringing on the 1st, 2ed, 4th, 5th, and apparently 3ed amendments by the government. Really probably a few more, but lets just worry about the first few for now. I'm a bit rusty, so help me out.

Holy cow, Vlad G, well said! I hope I never end up on the wrong side of an argument with you!

[DevsAdvocate 112]

You're wrong about this guy. He's no patriot.

 

He talks the talk and walks the walk.  He fights for all our freedoms.  Can't ask for more than that.

[ryan_j 0]

So it's ok to commit treason if you discover another crime? Two wrongs do not make a right. Go check your supply of tin foil

Rosa parks committed a crime. Sometimes two wrongs do make a right.

 

But back to Snowden. How exactly was the widespread surveillance supposed to be revealed legally? There's no way to do it, because the Govt made sure they made disclosing their illegal activity a crime, and apparently successfully brainwashed people into turning whistleblowers into villains.

[mp123 0]

Be careful at whom you cast stones

When they come for you

People will be shocked that you had so many guns and

so much ammo on hand

The free speech people have the right idea

They defend Larry Flynt and people like him

They understand that once they get past the ones on the fringes

the rest of us are easy prey

When you defend a city you don't draw the line inside the wall

you draw it outside the wall and fight like hell

Don't ask for whom the bell tolls

It tolls for thee

It's sad but they will not leave you alone

It's human nature to want to control people

Not all of them have bad intentions but the end result is the same

You can be smothered with good intentions

In the end people will say that those on the fringes were right

[Ivana Revolver 0]

Government psy-op. He's an Alex Jones flunkie.

[10X 3,301]

I think it will be interesting to see how history judges Snowden.    I've not made up my own mind yet--I think it's too soon to have perspective.   I think the US has to pursue, and has to attempt to prosecute him; that he violated the law seems clear.  However, the government violated/circumvented the law as well, and I'm glad we now know more about that.  And I'm rather pissed about what the government was up to.

 

I think Snowden followed his conscience; he knew there would be life-altering repercussions, which he was prepared to accept, and he wasn't looking for financial gain, nor particularly interested in the fame or infamy that resulted from his actions. 

 

One of the things that makes law enforcement hard--by design--are the rather severe restrictions that we the American people have chosen to place on the enforcers in order to preserve some of our freedoms.   Would the massive, secret collection and analysis of phone and internet data make it easier to catch terrorists?   Almost certainly.   Would allowing warrentless searches of homes, cars, and offices result in more criminals being caught?  Almost certainly.   Would giving the local police departments the right to tap phones at will and without judicial oversight make their work easier?   Almost certainly.

 

Do we want this?   No.

[illy 1]

Here's what I don't get (ready your tinfoil headgear):

If Kokesh knew that law enforcement was investigating the shotgun video and there was even the slightest possibility of his home being searched, why on earth would he keep illegal drugs there?
 

I'm not saying the mushrooms were planted (no pun intended), but at the very least, it seems likely that they belonged to someone else in the house.

 

Even Kokesh is not that dumb.

[ogfarmer 138]

I feel that if the drugs were planted wouldnt they put a more available substance, like meth, coke, etc  than magic mushrooms.

 

I dont think the shrooms are as a heafty of a charge as other cds's.

[NJSlick 0]

Every cop in NJ who's ever arrested someone on a weapons charge is guilty of the same thing.

 

So if a gang banger shoots up a store and kills an innocent bystander, then gets arrested,  the arresting officer is guilty? Mind blown. 

 

[RedBowTies88 41]

So if a gang banger shoots up a store and kills an innocent bystander, then gets arrested,  the arresting officer is guilty?

 

 

 

He would be arrested for many things. the weapons charge irrelevant.

[illy 1]

I feel that if the drugs were planted wouldnt they put a more available substance, like meth, coke, etc  than magic mushrooms.

 

I dont think the shrooms are as a heafty of a charge as other cds's.

 

Mushrooms are a Schedule I substance (ie worse than cocaine and heroin).

[illy 1]

Heres what that means:

Possession of Schedule I or II drugs is a felony in Virginia, punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a maximum $2,500 fine. If convicted of possession of Schedule I or II drugs while also in possession of a firearm, Kokesh would face an additional minimum of two years in prison.

 

[10X 3,301]

Mushrooms are a Schedule I substance (ie worse than cocaine and heroin).

Marijuana is also schedule 1, which leads one to ask what the DEA/FDA were smoking when they made these lists.

 

Heroin is also schedule 1, however.  Cocaine is schedule 2. 

 

Vicoden is schedule 3, Valium schedule 4, just to provide a bit of context

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Mushrooms is that bad? Damn the things grow naturally

[NYMetsFan86 9]

Indeed... plants, also natural