Help me diffuse this anti's statistics

[Howard 538]

So a leftist "friend" of mine posted all this anti gun stats on Facebook and I would like some help on providing stats to counter this stuff:

 

 

Jay Sweifach

Approximately 7.4 people per day are killed unintentionally by a gun.
A child is killed or injured by a firearm every 30 minutes.
33% of U.S. homes contain a gun; half don’t lock it up.
A firearm is 22x more likely to be used in the setting of suicide, criminal assault, homicide or accidental death than in self defense.
Risk of suicide is 5x greater if a gun is kept in the home.

 

Jay Sweifach Learn about your state’s current gun laws, gun death and injury statistics, and federal public health stats by visiting:
AAP Division of State Government Affairs State Gun Safety Laws http://www.aap.org/.../state.../Documents/GunSafetyLaws.pdf
Children’s Defense Fund Report “Protect Children, Not Guns”: http://www.childrensdefense.org/.../protect-children-not...
Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence State Scorecard: http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/
Law Center To Prevent Gun Violence: http://smartgunlaws.org/
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Web-based Injuries Statistics and Reporting System (WIQARS) http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html
CDC’s National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nvdrs/

 

 

 

Jay Sweifach http://www.aap.org/.../AAPFederalGunViolencePreventionRec...

Federal Policies to Keep Children Safe

www.aap.org

Since the tragic shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. tha...t took the lives of twenty students and six educators, the Academy has been engaged in a thoughtful, organization-wide response and call to action to assure the future safety and protection of our nation’s children.

 

Jay Sweifach ABOVE - resources that you can use to write to your state representatives.

 

[silverado427 10,731]

Toss this on his plate and tell him to piss n moan about these stats..

http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php

[EWC88 24]

Have him learn to do more research on other HIGH causes of death like automobiles for example.

 

If he wants to proceed with his blabbing, just let him know if the world was dumb enough to take away all guns, then he would be doing stats on causes of deaths from knives, and if they get banned then it'll be something else. Nothing will stop a mad person to kill, even when all weapons are gone a guy/women own something called hands to beat people to death with or choke, so maybe to solve lefties issues we should cut off everyone's arms, oh and legs cause you can kick people to death. Then I would ask him to be the "roll model" and be the first to have his body cut up to remove and part that could kill someone if he is so against.

 

Sounds extreme right? But so are their comments.

 

Oh and not attacking your friend, more of everyone who bashes guns.

 

Edit: nice post silverado

[PeteF 1,044]

 

So a leftist "friend" of mine posted all this anti gun stats on Facebook and I would like some help on providing stats to counter this stuff:

 

 

Jay Sweifach

1. Approximately 7.4 people per day are killed unintentionally by a gun.

2. A child is killed or injured by a firearm every 30 minutes.

3. 33% of U.S. homes contain a gun; half don’t lock it up.

4. A firearm is 22x more likely to be used in the setting of suicide, criminal assault, homicide or accidental death than in self defense.

5. Risk of suicide is 5x greater if a gun is kept in the home.

 

1.

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous "To Err Is Human" report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media.

In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for the Department of Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.

Now comes a of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death.

Doctors and Hospitals bad they must be banned.

 

2. Not sure where there numbers come from, but there are ~200 kids killed by someone inadvertently using a firearm a year. Drownings in a pool 3,700.  Kids more likely to drown by 17x.

 

3. Why would someone who has no children in thei house (When the person is home) and a carry permit (take there gun with them) lock up their firearm?  Additionally, how does a gun get stolen from a LOCKED house? Is it a crime to breakin and steal the firearm? Pretty much by definition a gun in a locked house IS a locked up.

 

4.  Have the dullard check the rise of all violent crime in Australia and Great Britain when guns were confiscated.   The action stays the same the tool changes.  I suppose no one committed suicide before firearms were invented?

 

5.  Back that up.  The statement in and of itself is a forgone conclusion,  Was a suicide committed?  If so then what was the tool used?  Then make up stats to say whatever they want. 

    For example:  30% of traffic fatalities involve drunk drivers,  therefore 70% don't.  So sober drivers are 233% more likely to be in a fatal accident.  Therefore we should all drive drunk,  Makes sense, right?

[NickySantoro 211]

So a leftist "friend" of mine

 

 

Therein lies the rub. He refers to you as an a**hole conservative at best or a Teabagger at worst. Cut the turd out of your life and never think of him again. You can't fix stupid so don't drop to his level where he can beat you by sheer dint of having experience being stupid.

[NickySantoro 211]

Double tap

[Howard 538]

I hear what you are saying and agree to some points that you can't win - but it is important to be able to diffuse this stuff as when it makes the press it actually convinces some people.  I found this from a source libs just love. 

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/shopping-cart-danger-66-kids-hurt-day-study-finds-2D11968164

The combination of kids and shopping carts is never easy, as any parent of a squirmy toddler knows, but a new study confirms it’s also dangerous, with an estimated 66 children a day in the U.S. hurt in falls and spills.

That’s one child injured badly enough every 22 minutes to go to the emergency room, or more than 24,000 children a year, according to research from Nationwide Children’s Hospital in Columbus, Ohio.

THUS SHOPPING CARTS ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN GUNS

[Vlad G 345]

Ask him to define what child means and if it includes every drug dealer under 21 shooting up his buddies or himself (hint: it does which is how they twist statistics)

 

Also where did he get the 30min number? His own study (http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/28/500-kids-die-7500-injured-by-guns-yearly) leads to less then half that assuming you believe it.

 

Also a ton of number contradicting some of his self defense numbers here: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

[Newtonian 453]

 

So a leftist "friend" of mine posted all this anti gun stats on Facebook and I would like some help on providing stats to counter this stuff:

 

 

Jay Sweifach

Approximately 7.4 people per day are killed unintentionally by a gun.

A child is killed or injured by a firearm every 30 minutes.

33% of U.S. homes contain a gun; half don’t lock it up.

A firearm is 22x more likely to be used in the setting of suicide, criminal assault, homicide or accidental death than in self defense.

Risk of suicide is 5x greater if a gun is kept in the home.

 

Jay Sweifach Learn about your state’s current gun laws, gun death and injury statistics, and federal public health stats by visiting:

AAP Division of State Government Affairs State Gun Safety Laws http://www.aap.org/.../state.../Documents/GunSafetyLaws.pdf

Children’s Defense Fund Report “Protect Children, Not Guns”: http://www.childrensdefense.org/.../protect-children-not...

Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence State Scorecard: http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/

Law Center To Prevent Gun Violence: http://smartgunlaws.org/

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Web-based Injuries Statistics and Reporting System (WIQARS) http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html

CDC’s National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nvdrs/

 

 

 

Jay Sweifach http://www.aap.org/.../AAPFederalGunViolencePreventionRec...

Federal Policies to Keep Children Safe

www.aap.org

Since the tragic shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. tha...t took the lives of twenty students and six educators, the Academy has been engaged in a thoughtful, organization-wide response and call to action to assure the future safety and protection of our nation’s children.

 

Jay Sweifach ABOVE - resources that you can use to write to your state representatives.

 

Right off the bat: every 30 minutes = 17,520 per year. Total bullshit. Even an anti-gun pub says it's a lot less: http://huff.to/1ggGABX (about 7500).

 

I'm sick of this stuff.

[Hops 0]

I read that almost 70 percent of gun deaths are caused by someone making under 25k a year.

 

Why not incarcerate everyone that makes under 25k a year?

[brucin 923]

Toss this on his plate and tell him to piss n moan about these stats..

http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php

 

I could take this more seriously if it didn't include a legal medical procedure as the top cause of death.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Here you go Howard, maybe this will help...

 

http://www.gunfacts.info/

[RUTGERS95 890]

4 children under the age of 12 die by alcohol related death every day.  That was always got me as patently stupid and totally avoidable

[SgtToadette 59]

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/43322-njgf-online-resource-compendium/

 

This should hopefully help.

[Worn_Holster 2]

Many anti-gunners quote the misguided Kellerman case-control study and cite the false conclusion that a gun in the home makes the likelihood of homicide of a family member 22 times more likely, despite analyses that logically show the falacies concluded by the study. These liberals love to use false arguments to back up their meaningless conjecture. If you look at this article, liberals quoting the study just added up all of the adjusted odd ratios to come up with their 22% number for their Guns in the Home quote! This study has been proven to contain many faults, yet the libs ignore that and continue to quote the resulting stats. Guncite.com offers a decent explanation of the fallacies.

 

http://www.guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html
 

[FLHX 1]

This type of person will never be swayed. unfriend immediately!!

[NYMetsFan86 9]

unfriend on facebook, then slowly unfriend in real life. it works, i've done it

[SgtToadette 59]

Honestly, I don't like the idea of de-friending and running away from the problem. It's impossible to always surround yourself with people who agree with you on everything. But even further than that, why would you want to? You can't just throw yourself in a social bubble, covering your ears every time there's the slightest hint of dissent (not suggesting you are, Howard).

 

Also, why else would you want to immediately dismiss the statistics? Doing so isn't productive if the goal is to come as close as possible to the truth. We get no right to complain when Antis shrug off out stats if we do the same thing to them. Dismissing an alleged fact merely because we disagree with it is no way to approach the issue. Find the sources behind the numbers and investigate them. If they are reputable and well researched, then find out how they play into your world view and adjust accordingly. Have concerns about the numbers? Ask! Have a discussion with your friend. Explore his numbers and show him some of your own. That's how you change minds.

 

That being said, facts are useless without some kind of guiding philosophy. There is no objectively correct view on gun control. There's certainly a lot of numbers and stats, but they don't tell you what you should think. For instance, when a gun is present in the home, it's occupants are at increased risk of being harmed by that firearm or successfully committing suicide. Let's assume that to be true for the sake of not getting bogged down in the details. So that's a fact. My philosophy, however, tells me that the fact is inconsequential. People should be allowed to take risk if they so choose. In the same way I make a decision to install a pool in my backyard, I understand that there are inherent risks associated with that. It's a decision I should still be allowed to make. I don't dismiss the fact, and I personally believe it to be true despite how it sounds, but I incorporate it into my worldview nonetheless.

 

I highly advise against others' suggestions to cut this friend off. A friend is a friend is a friend. What are the possible outcomes of continuing the discussion with them? Maybe you agree to disagree. Maybe they change their mind. Maybe you change your mind. Maybe you can't agree to disagree and determine you can't be friends. None of which are bad, but de-friending them and effectively running away from the issue? Doesn't seem right.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

People should be allowed to take risk if they so choose.

Agreed. I can't stand the fact that we have seatbelt and motorcycle helmet laws. If you want to reduce your potential personal safety, so be it! Don't tell me that I'm not allowed to make personal safety decisions for myself! Oops, too late... Ha, ha, ha!

[Vlad G 345]

So here is the Yale study about the children's deaths and injuries that everyone is talking about

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/01/22/peds.2013-1809.full.pdf

 

First, note that includes up to 20 year olds, which includes a lot of gang members.

 

Secondly ... Page 221 .. Most of these are assaults and in the age of 15-19, again gang violence age.

 

I won't even go into the rest of the data one can dig from that document, lots of interesting things,

[Vlad G 345]

Oh yeah and 65% were uninsured or covered by Medicaid. Males 8 times more likely the females.

 

No gang issues here.

[SmartAss 11]

An ABC propaganda special airing this Friday night.

I don't think I'll be able to watch this without putting my fist through my TV.

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/young-guns-diane-sawyer-special-21694484

[seamusSU 0]

An ABC propaganda special airing this Friday night.

I don't think I'll be able to watch this without putting my fist through my TV.

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/young-guns-diane-sawyer-special-21694484

I saw an ad for that last night. I'm pretty sure the whole "kids are drawn to playing with guns" concept would work if they switched it to any number of items. Kids are naturally drawn to anything novel that they don't normally get to play with. It's a lame, heavy handed premise.

[n4p226r 105]

I saw an ad for that last night. I'm pretty sure the whole "kids are drawn to playing with guns" concept would work if they switched it to any number of items. Kids are naturally drawn to anything novel that they don't normally get to play with. It's a lame, heavy handed premise.

 

exactly.  if it was a dildo they would have treated it the same way.   i bet none of those kids had parents that truly taught them what gun safety meant.  plus.  who the F purposely puts a gun in front of an unsupervised kid.  ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED!!!! right?

[seamusSU 0]

exactly.  if it was a dildo they would have treated it the same way.

I was trying to come up with a good substitution but you outdid anything I had thought of!

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Show them some of the info contained in this link....ask them why all the instances where guns are used to defend people / save lives (news links towards the end) are hardly ever mentioned or heard of in the news?

 

http://americas-liberty.tumblr.com/post/75101020940/guns-save-lives

 

 

Ask them if someone were trying to kick in their front door would they rather have a cop on the phone or a gun in their hand?

 

Don't get upset, don't get emotional but have an intelligent conversation with them. 

[Norseman 2]

Show them some of the info contained in this link....ask them why all the instances where guns are used to defend people / save lives (news links towards the end) are hardly ever mentioned or heard of in the news?

 

http://americas-liberty.tumblr.com/post/75101020940/guns-save-lives

 

 

Ask them if someone were trying to kick in their front door would they rather have a cop on the phone or a gun in their hand?

 

Don't get upset, don't get emotional but have an intelligent conversation with them.

Yeah the problem is most of the antis I know, just for the sake of acting like they've won the debate, will say, "call 911" and act like they mean it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Underdog 1,593]

Ask your friend if Obamacare and its austerity panels will cover his mental illness. Then ask him if he knows how many people are killed by hammers and other blunt objects every year. Also ask him how many people have been killed by their own governments in disarmed countries in moden history. Lastly, ask him if he would personally be responsible enough to own a gun, or if he feels that it is too much for him. If he says no, point out that he is projecting his own inadequacies on others. If he says he would be responsibe enough, ask him why he doesn't feel others are. Ask him why he doesn't trust the common man's ability to defend himself,a natural right, but is ok with that same individual,armed, with positions of power as a government official over his fellow man.

[remixer 1,645]

So a leftist "friend" of mine

 

 

Therein lies the rub. He refers to you as an a**hole conservative at best or a Teabagger at worst. Cut the turd out of your life and never think of him again. You can't fix stupid so don't drop to his level where he can beat you by sheer dint of having experience being stupid.

 

Perfect... I find it hard to call a Leftist a friend..

 

As stated how it it possible to be friends with someone that thinks of you as a racist baby killing right wing teabagger nationalist nazi who is completely mind fugged to even think there might be a god and you sleep with your relatives?

 

If he really is a leftist then this is what he thinks of you and maybe even worse

 

Me personally i have cut off anyone that i would consider a lefty not even a leftist as its impossible to find anything in common with them.

[Vlad G 345]

I think that is a mistake.

 

By doing that you are only fostering the us-vs-them paradigm and ensuring a longer term animosity. There are a quite a few lefties who are not antigun, but by taking your toys and going home you reenforce the gun issue to the red-v-blue dichotomy, slowly forcing the those not rabidly anti-gun on the left to fall in line with the rest of their party.

 

The shift in attitudes on this issue over the last 30 year has been broad based in the entire political spectrum. Lets not forget the red gang was quite willing to ban guns in 30-40 years ago. The center was anti-gun 20 years ago. You don't win this fight by taking your toys and going home, you win it one person at a time across the political spectrum.

 

Also you don't argue with fanatical anti gun people because you will change their mind, you argue with them for the sake of the audience. This is something our side all to often forgets and we foam at the mouth and call people names and look like asses to the audience. If you look at the original forms of debate, going back to the greeks, it is a form of theater. You have two people arguing and exposing logical arguments in front of an audience not because either it is likely to change the others mind, but entirely to convince the watchers that their side is correct.

 

Act accordingly, always be willing and ready to have the argument. Always be polite, calm, and reasonable. Trap the opponent into his own arguments. Do not get emotional, do not beat your chest, do not appeal higher powers (be it biblical or constitutional). Make a reasoned argument, never give up, let your opponent make himself a fool, and never stop him when he does that. Ask questions of him or her and help them dig a deeper hole where the find themselves arguing against their own ideas.

 

That's how you win this this fight. Taking your toys and going home is for 5 year olds on the play ground. Heck, even then, how did that affect the reputation of the 5 year old.