45Doll 5,877 Posted December 14, 2018 Well if you're up for some more over-the-top articles, check this one out. I don't frequent this site. I found it through Zero Hedge, which was disappointing. I have no doubt the NJ Legislature will do as much as they're allowed to get away with. But police sweeps haven't happened for any previous tightening of restrictions and they're not imminent. Not for 'assault rifles', not 15-round mags, and not 10-round mags. Other states have banned 'assault rifles', ammo purchases over the Internet etc. and they're not sweeping there either. Non-compliance is obvious too. I do wonder how many are 'keeping their powder dry' for whatever turns out to be the last straw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, 45Doll said: Well if you're up for some more over-the-top articles, check this one out. I don't frequent this site. I found it through Zero Hedge, which was disappointing. I have no doubt the NJ Legislature will do as much as they're allowed to get away with. But police sweeps haven't happened for any previous tightening of restrictions and they're not imminent. Not for 'assault rifles', not 15-round mags, and not 10-round mags. Other states have banned 'assault rifles', ammo purchases over the Internet etc. and they're not sweeping there either. Non-compliance is obvious too. I do wonder how many are 'keeping their powder dry' for whatever turns out to be the last straw. You’re a very intelligent man, I’ll ask you this... whom said;” the day to bury your guns is the day to dig them up”? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FedUpWithNJ 18 Posted December 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, Screwball said: He opened his safe to police officers, who found an “assault weapon.” Whether or not he knew it was there, if he was a competitive shooter, he likely knew the law. But hey, this is a case from over 20 years ago... so it is easily referenced and can be looked over without issue (that last part was sarcasm, since you don’t seem to get a lot of the stuff being discussed). I understand it a darn sight better than do you. I recommend you read the case. He won the rifle in a competition. It was a Marlin with a 17 round magazine. It sounds like it may even have been as trivial as a .22 tubular, but that's not specified in the appeal transcript and I have been unable to find the original trial online. He never used the gun. It had the original tags on it when found. He did not know it could hold 17 rounds, which would be consistent with a tubular magazine; who would know how many fit down there without reading the manual? He had registered some of his rifles in 1990 when the assault rifle ban and 15 round limit came into effect, so it seems extremely likely that he indeed had no knowledge the Marlin was non-compliant (and the appeal judges did not question that claim). And let's be clear: had he also registered the Marlin then he would have been compliant. The appeal judges quoting a previous case in denying the appeal: "[T]he dangers are so high and the regulations so prevalent that, on balance, the legislative branch may as a matter of sound public policy and without impairing any constitutional guarantees, declare the act itself unlawful without any further requirement of mens rea or its equivalent." We're talking about the "danger" associated with failing to register a .22 tubular with 2 extra rounds being "so high" as to justify jettisoning mens rea: the common-law requirement in criminal cases that the defendant had actual intent to commit a crime. Thus Pelleteri was duly fucked by the appeals court. It made no difference that he had no idea the gun was non-compliant. It made no difference that he had very good reasons for not knowing the gun was non-compliant. It made no difference that he not only had no intent to keep non-compliant weapons, he had actively brought into compliance his non-compliant weapons by registering them. It made no difference that the incremental risk posed by two .22 rounds is negligible. This judgement was absurd on its face. No explanation other than gross ignorance and rabid anti-gun zealotry on the part of the appeal judges can explain such a decision. And these are the people to which you blithely trust your 4th amendment rights. Good luck. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted December 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Zeke said: You’re a very intelligent man, I’ll ask you this... whom said;” the day to bury your guns is the day to dig them up”? I have no idea. And a brief Google search didn't turn it up. (Or are they filtering it out? LOL) But I do like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,664 Posted December 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, Zeke said: You’re a very intelligent man, I’ll ask you this... whom said;” the day to bury your guns is the day to dig them up”? Tamara from Indianapolis. And it should be who said, not whom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 14, 2018 Just now, High Exposure said: Tamara from Indianapolis. And it should be who said, not whom. Let’s not get bogged down in the details Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted December 14, 2018 [emoji849]I’m going to argue with the wall, because I’ll have a better chance having a proactive conversation with it. Actually, on second thought... I’m going to get my stuff together for the Oaks gun show tomorrow. Maybe if I buy a handgun in PA, you or Nappen will tell me how I’m breaking so many laws.Thanks for the good luck wish. Going to be a long and treacherous 3.5 months living here... but I think I’ll manage. Sure as hell won’t be worrying about a search warrant... like 99.9% of us.But, best of luck with law school. [emoji106] 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voyager9 3,434 Posted December 14, 2018 36 minutes ago, Zeke said: You’re a very intelligent man, I’ll ask you this... whom said;” the day to bury your guns is the day to dig them up”? A shovel salesman? 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,052 Posted December 14, 2018 Yeah, I complied. I can't afford to be a felon. But I am not running around accusing people of fear-mongering when they point out the consequences of active enforcement of the new law. Is it Stockholm syndrome that makes you do this or something else? I am genuinely trying to understand.There is the problem with NJ. I read I can't afford to stand up for my Constitutional Rights.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,664 Posted December 14, 2018 48 minutes ago, Zeke said: Let’s not get bogged down in the details And I was serious. That quote is first attributed to Tamara from Indianapolis on “The Firing Line” forum circa 2001. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, High Exposure said: And I was serious. That quote is first attributed to Tamara from Indianapolis on “The Firing Line” forum circa 2001. Smert cookie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted December 14, 2018 2 hours ago, 45Doll said: Well if you're up for some more over-the-top articles, check this one out. I don't frequent this site. I found it through Zero Hedge, which was disappointing. I have no doubt the NJ Legislature will do as much as they're allowed to get away with. But police sweeps haven't happened for any previous tightening of restrictions and they're not imminent. Not for 'assault rifles', not 15-round mags, and not 10-round mags. Other states have banned 'assault rifles', ammo purchases over the Internet etc. and they're not sweeping there either. Non-compliance is obvious too. I do wonder how many are 'keeping their powder dry' for whatever turns out to be the last straw. WTF did you link to.... There is tinfoil.... and then there is this... Quote How much blood are New Jersey State Police willing to shed to establish their dictatorial regime of absolute power? All this raises an important question: How much blood are New Jersey State Police officers willing to shed in order to establish absolute power over the (disarmed) citizens? And who, exactly, is suicidal enough to run these door-to-door confiscation raids, demanding citizens turn over the very hardware they need to defend themselves against New Jersey government tyrants? It now appears that New Jersey State Police are gearing up to wage mass shootings of gun owners who resist the magazine ban. This will all be carried out, of course, in the name of “public safety.” Thus, the government will engage in mass shootings while claiming to be stopping mass shootings. Such is the new tyranny of the deranged, lawless Left which believes no citizen should have the right to defend themselves against the wave of violent illegal alien criminals those very same Leftists want to see flood across the open border and invade U.S. cities. Reading the comments you full on idiots... one was claiming that Hitler did not kill Jews and it was the Jews who declared war on Germany. ooooookay. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indianajonze 379 Posted December 14, 2018 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted December 14, 2018 6 hours ago, FedUpWithNJ said: I never said the police are GOING to come for me. You keep claiming this but you're simply wrong. My handgun permit says plain as day: Serial number: XXXXXXX. || Caliber: 9mm || New || Make: Glock || Model: 19 Gen 5 And then in the bottom right corner: "Within 5 days after date of transaction the seller is required to provide a copy of the permit to the following: WHITE COPY: Forwarded to the Superintendent of State Police YELLOW COPY: Forwarded to the Issuing Authority" The issuing authority was my local pd. So the state and local police do indeed have a record of "exactly what I own" (your words). Now, as I pointed out, they can't be 100% sure that I have a 15 round mag, but I bet they can ask Glock whether that serial number shipped with 15 round mags or simply assume that it was purchased with a 15 round mag since that was by far the norm at the time. No, I gave a very plausible scenario under which the ban would be pro-actively enforced. Think about what you are so desperately arguing: the legislature, the administration and the courts in this state have been actively suppressing our second amendment rights for the better part of half a century. They finally get to pass their signature legislation further infringing our rights yet you believe there are no circumstances under which the new laws will ever be enforced pro-actively. That's asinine. Okay, how many Glock 19s have been sold in NJ in the past 10-20 years? 1000? 5000? 20000? If NJSP were to request how many shipped with 15 Rd magazines Glock could tell NJ to pound salt. The only people Glock has to answer to is ATF. Now NJSP can request that info from ATF. IF ATF got that information and passed this to NJSP the real question is how many of these gun's WERE DELIVERED with 15 Rd magazines. I guarantee no FFL in NJ could accurately answer that question. Even if NJ FFLs could answer that question there would have to be reason to believe the recipient of these guns didn't comply as you did. Even of all this info were available NONE OF IT IS PROBABLE CAUSE. That's what you need for a search warrant. Not mere or reasonable suspicion. How many people do you think NJSP or ATF have to devote to this effort? Possible? Yes. Probable. Never. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted December 14, 2018 37 minutes ago, Maksim said: WTF did you link to.... There is tinfoil.... and then there is this... You missed the rest of that article: Quote Every government will take more and more power until it is forced to stop. There is no such thing as a government that has “enough” power. Its bureaucrats are forever hungry for more power, and they will continue to strip power from the citizens for as long as they can get away with it. New Jersey is marching down the path of Stalinist authoritarianism. Have no illusions that New Jersey State Police will carry 30-round magazines, not 10-round magazines. The entire point of this magazine confiscation program is to incrementally disarm the citizenry and make sure that when the NJ government launches its all-out war on pro-2A citizens, those citizens are at a severe disadvantage in terms of magazine capacity. It’s so much easier to win a war, after all, if you force your enemy to carry 10-round magazines. And from the point of view of New Jersey lawmakers, the people are their enemy. YOU are already an “enemy combatant” in the eyes of NJ Democrats. Giving up your 30-round magazines, in other words, is tantamount to surrendering to tyranny. No lawful government would ever attempt to take away your rifle mags. The very fact that New Jersey is going down this path proves that NJ bureaucrats plan to do much more in the near future. Ultimately, they don’t want the citizens to have any means to defend themselves whatsoever. First they came for the magazines, and we turned those in to comply with the law. Then they came for the guns, and we turned those in, too, to comply with the law. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me (and no means to defend myself against lawless tyranny). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
45Doll 5,877 Posted December 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Maksim said: WTF did you link to.... An article that was mostly ridiculous, as you noted. You did see me say I was disappointed in Zero Hedge for referencing it? I would not have found it on my own. I posted it since this thread and others have discussed 'fear mongering'. I thought that was a good example. Although as Sniper pointed out, there are some kernels of truth in it. I for one would never degrade solid 2A arguments by making up ridiculous crap like that. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted December 14, 2018 2 hours ago, 45Doll said: Although as Sniper pointed out, there are some kernels of truth in it. I for one would never degrade solid 2A arguments by making up ridiculous crap like that. Sometimes you need to sift through the hyperbole and muck in those type of articles to get to the truth. Many are written to be over the top, trying to wake a few more people up from their slumber. Sadly, too many are still asleep......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted December 14, 2018 This is the thread that will never end. Dear Lord, I pray that just ONE% of all this angst gets applied to do some good 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Ray 3,566 Posted December 14, 2018 15 hours ago, FedUpWithNJ said: I am a hero. Since your post about you being a hero, everything I see from you now looks like garbage. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickySantoro 211 Posted December 14, 2018 The effect of this will be the same as when the 15 round rule went in. Nothing. 10 round mags will go to the range. Other mags will go where the 20 and 30 round mags went before, wherever that is. Even Jersey cops, not known to be mental giants, will realize that if you don't stir a crock of shit it won't stink or get you shot to death by screwing with those who were never the problem and never will be. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuRrEaLNJ 294 Posted December 14, 2018 jesus h christ what the hell is going on in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuRrEaLNJ 294 Posted December 14, 2018 well looks like we have a fine addition in @FedUpWithNJ, comes in here out of nowhere, and every post in his activity is highly argumentative.... this should be fun 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, SuRrEaLNJ said: well looks like we have a fine addition in @FedUpWithNJ, comes in here out of nowhere, and every post in his activity is highly argumentative.... this should be fun Stop being a douche to new people! 1 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted December 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zeke said: Stop being a douche to new people! what did I do? 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted December 14, 2018 i don't think there'll be door to door.....but something i think everyone's forgetting.......previously things weren't registered......as in the assault weapons crap. this time, while they may not know all....they do know who bought which pistols, and they do know what mags those pistols generally shipped with. that is a big, and disturbing difference this time.......they(should they desire to try to enforce) know where some of the stuff is this time 'round. part of why my shit got sent away before this happened. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maksim 1,504 Posted December 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said: i don't think there'll be door to door.....but something i think everyone's forgetting.......previously things weren't registered......as in the assault weapons crap. this time, while they may not know all....they do know who bought which pistols, and they do know what mags those pistols generally shipped with. that is a big, and disturbing difference this time.......they(should they desire to try to enforce) know where some of the stuff is this time 'round. part of why my shit got sent away before this happened. No doubts about it. The information is there, or ways to get it do exist, as someone else mentioned, they can contact ATF who would need to contact distributors and manufactures. The big caveats are, as our Leo members mentioned, that is not enough for a warrant, and most of all, all of this information is largely in paper form and there is a significant lack of resources. Now, if you are a nail that sticks out in your town... sure I can see someone looking into your file.... but on the whole... for the million gun owners in NJ... completely impractical. in order to make it happen would require billions of dollars in salaries to go through all that data. beyond that... how would you enforce it? It is not enough for warrants.... does the town send out people to go door to door? there is a large practical distinction between could and would. Yes... they can.... but practically speaking how would they? If you want to bust people for standard capacity mags, just go hang out at Range 14. Why bother creating more work? For our FFLs here... any information from the state? Or anyone busted yet? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuRrEaLNJ 294 Posted December 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Zeke said: Stop being a douche to new people! the new people need to be less douchey! 3 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 14, 2018 1 minute ago, SuRrEaLNJ said: the new people need to be less douchey! I heart you 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted December 14, 2018 1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said: i don't think there'll be door to door.....but something i think everyone's forgetting.......previously things weren't registered......as in the assault weapons crap. this time, while they may not know all....they do know who bought which pistols, and they do know what mags those pistols generally shipped with. that is a big, and disturbing difference this time.......they(should they desire to try to enforce) know where some of the stuff is this time 'round. part of why my shit got sent away before this happened. has any other state that decided to outlaw things that were once legal gone "door to door"? seams logistically impossible.. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites