Retired LEOs Targeted

[BlueLineFish 615]

 

 

My point well made. Every time you make a statement you dig a deeper hole. Better give it a rest.

 

You are no different than anybody else and it's a job. Just remember you work FOR the public. Just like sanitation! Just a different function.

 

Thanks for the scolding dad. You going to send me to my room too. I will give it a rest whenever i feel good and ready too. Not because someone who doesnt like what i say told me too. I guess thats my arrogance coming out. I have to get ready to serve the public now anyway so good riddance to this thread. It is just like sanitation; most of the time I am dealing with human garbage.

[Duppie 73]

Thanks for the scolding dad. You going to send me to my room too. I will give it a rest whenever i feel good and ready too. Not because someone who doesnt like what i say told me too. I guess thats my arrogance coming out. I have to get ready to serve the public now anyway so good riddance to this thread. It is just like sanitation; most of the time I am dealing with human garbage.

....and there's the arrogance and attitude we're referring to.... serve the public? most of the time?Human Garbage? really? you really should have heeded Old School's advice instead of outing yourself. and you were doing so well too but it was just a matter of time, your past posts display a history of such.

[Zell959 40]

...most of the time I am dealing with human garbage.

 

You honestly don't get how that would come across as arrogant? Anyone that crosses you is human garbage?

[Midwest 28]

I believe everyone should be carrying a weapon for protection, not only just LEOs or ex LEO's.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Whatever... I'm not talking bout your average citizen. I am talking about those who are out there that that old care less about other people. You know the people that all those who wish to ccw want to protect themselves from.

[Tactical Monkey 51]

Thanks for the scolding dad. You going to send me to my room too. I will give it a rest whenever i feel good and ready too. Not because someone who doesnt like what i say told me too. I guess thats my arrogance coming out. I have to get ready to serve the public now anyway so good riddance to this thread. It is just like sanitation; most of the time I am dealing with human garbage.

 

For the most part everyone here is trying to be civil, and you respond to a differing opinion by sounding like a 16 year old?

 

What you good sirs fail to see is that we are not "jealous", or "envious" of your chosen profession and the inherent rights that come with it while you perform your duties on and off duty. The original point of this thread was that when you retire.... how are your 2nd Amendment Rights more important than my retired father's, or my widow next door neighbor, or mine?

 

ETA: Please do not take that as a strike against LEO's, because its not. It's a strike against a failed system that we need support with, especially in this state, and especially from the Law Enforcement Community.

[Shane45 807]

Gentlemen, please keep in mind that we are all adults and can argue politely to sway each others oppinion, the point of a debate. But at the end of the day Id like to think we could stand shoulder to shoulder on the range together with no hard feelings, its just a debate. Even if I entirely disagree with someone here, I like to think its simply a disagreement. If mutual respect is lost, then convincing the pther party of the merrits of your position is lost too.

[Duppie 73]

Gentlemen, please keep in mind that we are all adults and can argue politely to sway each others oppinion, the point of a debate. But at the end of the day Id like to think we could stand shoulder to shoulder on the range together with no hard feelings, its just a debate. Even if I entirely disagree with someone here, I like to think its simply a disagreement. If mutual respect is lost, then convincing the pther party of the merrits of your position is lost too.

+1

[Shane45 807]

"What you good sirs fail to see is that we are not "jealous", or "envious" of your chosen profession and the inherent rights that come with it while you perform your duties on and off duty. The original point of this thread was that when you retire.... how are your 2nd Amendment Rights more important than my retired father's, or my widow next door neighbor, or mine?"

 

 

This!

[BlueLineFish 615]

Gentlemen, please keep in mind that we are all adults and can argue politely to sway each others oppinion, the point of a debate. But at the end of the day Id like to think we could stand shoulder to shoulder on the range together with no hard feelings, its just a debate. Even if I entirely disagree with someone here, I like to think its simply a disagreement. If mutual respect is lost, then convincing the pther party of the merrits of your position is lost too.

 

Agree 100%. I don't think my rights when I retire are any more important than someone else's. I think everybody should have the right to protect themselves and their family. I apologize if my opinion come across too strong but I never consider myself better than anybody else. Maybe" human garbage" is a little strong but when you see and hear what happens every day that most people don't know bout it is disgusting. I am not trying to impose my will on others and I like to think myself a Strong supporter of 2a. Enjoy the rest of your day everbody I am off to work.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

If we have it so much better then why don't more people take the job. Are they scared, want better pay, what then? People love to talk about how police and firemen have it so much better but yet a lot of people don't take the job. Just more complaining as usual

 

Because I'm smarter than most cops, make more money, and generally have a more relaxing life than them... So why would I take a pay cut to do a job that has so many downsides?

 

Like:

- You have to serve the interests of an inept government, and enforce bad laws that you know are wrong

- You aren't really serving and protecting anyone since you're always minutes late and a dollar short

- You get **** on by the inept government

- You get **** on by the community your charged to serve and protect because of you're inability to provide safety

- You have to work with other cops, who (from my experience), tend to be a bunch of narcissistic, condescending, screw-ups, who think that because they get nice bennies, a badge, uniform, and gun (and sometimes tazer), that they are better than the people they're supposed to serve.

- Your leadership isn't made up of police officers who served the community best and worked to make things better, but politically appointed hacks who are the same arrogant assholes that give the rest of the police a bad name.

- When you have to enforce the law on another LEO, you have to cut them a break because it's a 'professional courtesy'. You'd think they'd know better than to break the laws they are supposed to enforce... but oh wells. If you go hard on them, then they may call in a favor from their <insert male relative who is in a position of authority over yours> to make your life even more miserable

- You have to be politically correct... ('nuff said)

- You are held to terrible metrics like: How many people did you annoy today for speeding more than 10mph above the limit? How many of them were minorities? Women? Etc.

 

So yeah... you gotta be an idealist, a moron, or a power-hungry jackass to be a cop. It's sad, because the last two categories vastly outnumber the poor idealist who only wanted to serve and protect his community, but realized it's all a sham.

[raz-0 1,259]

Its not cry baby stuff. The difference is we dont cry about regular people, why do they cry about us?

 

Here, I'll explain it. People bash a lot of occupations in general. Cops get it in specific because we know what they do, and we see them out there doing it, kind of like teachers. However, cops get it extra hard because they don't leave us alone. Why don't regular people leave cops alone? Because they don't leave us alone is the short answer. We have specifics to gripe about.

 

When you bust people for speeding, and drive around with a thin blue line sticker on your car, and then lots of you give that car a free pass.. people don't like it, you are screwing with us while taking privilege form your position when none is apportioned by law.

 

You bust us for using cell phones, while half the cruisers have the driver yakking away on theirs. More of that privilege taking.

 

I'm only touching on generalities. I can come up with a lot of real world examples of MUCH, MUCH worse without even having to hit up a news report. Add them in and the bad apples get pretty bad. But I'm jsut trying to illustrate that for a lot of people, bad police behavior is not some general thing, but can be boiled down to specifics. Try to find someone who never had a bad episode dealing with police, and I bet you don't find too many people.

 

The world is full of a-holes. I don't think cops as a population are more than one standard deviation away form the average. The problem is that when they are, they are a-holes with authority and their job is to drive around and try and inflict that combination on you whenever they look not busy enough. So in the end, the bad ones are a-holes with authority whose job description includes seeking you out and subjecting you to it. Ask even a reasonable cop to choose who they are backing with limited information, and they'll choose the a-hole in uniform. That makes the reasonable guy look like one of the a-holes.

 

The rate of a-holes in the world of politicians probably tops every other demographic. They also have authority, but by and large they don't interfere in my personal space trying to prove it. When they make a bad law, you don't worry about the politician showing up, you worry about the cop showing up. Even the reasonable cops will say "hey, that's our job." True, but if you enforce the laws of a-holes, you look like an a-hole.

 

Then there's the matter of degree. When I was a teenager, I know plenty of people who got whacked with a ticket that represented about 1/3 of a weeks worth of full time minimum wage pay. They didn't get away with something that the cop could get away with. That was pretty run of the mill "bad" experience, and in the grand scheme, not too bad. There weren't a lot of folks who could be financially screwed by that. These days, for a similar ticket, you can be looking at about $200, or 2/3 of a week of minimum wage labor. Without going up the severity level (heck sometimes with less points than the speeding ticket) you can hit $500-750 in fines pretty easily for stuff cops get away with. For a LOT of the population, that causes severe financial hardship. From the public's position, that privilege taken by officers not afforded by law is getting to be pretty significant in the grand scheme of things.

 

Sure, you probably think it is a stupid law, but you probably would still enforce it if your superiors said it was going to be key on your performance review. So for the guy that has to figure out how to pay for food this month because you picked him to fill the quota, how do you think you look? Even if you didn't have to, that guy whose side you take blindly did it multiple times, so...

[MarkWVU02 47]

If we have it so much better then why don't more people take the job. Are they scared, want better pay, what then? People love to talk about how police and firemen have it so much better but yet a lot of people don't take the job. Just more complaining as usual

 

Do you realize how many people take police and fire tests? I could see if there were job openings in police and fire but your argument really makes no sense. The fire lists in some towns have more names than firemen. When I took the Port Authority class there were more than 12,000 people that took it (thanks to my former boss I was turned down at the last step of the process...but that's another story for another time).

 

I'm not against you or other cops it's just it isn't the easiest job to get anymore. You think cops get bashed a lot try being a teacher in this state.

[revenger 473]

I feel the State is under orders from chrisite to take a pro-active attack on national reciprocity and any pro 2A supreme court decisions that may be forthcoming. make no mistake about this it comes straight from chrisite.

[reloaderguy 30]

"What you good sirs fail to see is that we are not "jealous", or "envious" of your chosen profession and the inherent rights that come with it while you perform your duties on and off duty. The original point of this thread was that when you retire.... how are your 2nd Amendment Rights more important than my retired father's, or my widow next door neighbor, or mine?"

 

 

This!

 

 

Yup. I agree. When you retire your ccw should retire with you and not have any more special privileges than we do!

[Soju 153]

A few things.

 

Apparently I fall in the 3rd most dangerous job category. Wow! Didn't know that....

 

But on topic:

 

1. Many here have got on me for some views of LEO that are not always popular. But with that said, I have a huge issue with the original post, that being arresting retired LEO's who are carry concealed. And here is why. Regardless of my, or anyones views on whether or not they should be allowed too, while us mere regular citizens cannot, this is upsetting. If that post is true, they are specifically targeting and arresting people for something they KNOW is LEGAL. At this point I don't care what it is, they are intentionally hassling people they have no business doing. If they can carry, regardless the reason why, leave them the eff alone.

 

2. As much as I am ENTIRELY against what is a quite common occurrence, where LEO's are often treated as if they are above the law, and commonly make reference (not here) to the phrase "badges don't grant extra rights", if retired LEO's can carry, that is a good thing, as long as they are not acting as if they are still a LEO. Should they have extra privileges I don't have? Absolutely not! But carrying is not anything that should be some sort of 'extra' privilege. The fact that we (normal citizen) can't carry is the issue, not that they (retired LEO) can. What I hope isn't lost, is that I don't like how it is. But I know that if you subject them to the same requirements as us, then it will only get HARDER for us to carry, and give them reason to INCREASE restrictions on us. Now that is messed up, but that is how it goes.

[JimC 1]

WOW! I post this and then check back after a few hours and find 104 replies, mostly negative.

I had no idea that there were so many LEO haters on this forum. Yes, many of you have voiced your opinion and those opinions reek of hate and envy toward LEOs.

Well, I am a retired LEO from NJ (15 years now) now living in the gun shine state of FL, a gun free state that welcomes retired LEOs from all over the USA with open arms and happily qualifies us for carry under HR 218. The Sheriff of the agency that I qualify with also thanks us for our service at each qualification.

I legally carry back and forth from NJ to FL a couple of times a year. The only impediment that I incur is the fact that NJ refuses to recognize that I can carry HP ammo under HR 218. I'm sure this will be corrected in the future.

As a retired LEO I do not put myself above the average gun owner nor do I feel like I am privileged…being retired is just the way it is and I can carry anywhere in the USA except for the usual places that are prohibited.

If this offends you, there’s nothing that I can do to remedy that unfortunate circumstance but I will offer no apology for the right that I have under federal law or for my 25 years of LE service.

Not happy with the gun laws in NJ? I think you know the answer that that question.

[PK90 3,570]

HR218 was updated by S1132 and signed into law by Obama which allows HP ammo and forbids states from requiring CCW permits. See this FOP-FAQ page.

[Old School 611]

I didn't see any "HATER" posts. Just people telling it the way it is.

[Tactical Turtle 11]

If we have it so much better then why don't more people take the job. Are they scared, want better pay, what then? People love to talk about how police and firemen have it so much better but yet a lot of people don't take the job. Just more complaining as usual

 

They are scared, let them run into a burning building, arrest a dangerous felon, fight for there life on the side of the road hoping back up is on the way, or walking through a jail or prison with no gun, just a radio and there barehands, there also the ones who cast judgement on the le community, but aren't willing in most cases to do what we do. Ive been doing this for under a year already, and I've dealt with murders, rapist, drug dealers, violent offenders, and cop killers. I have 24 more years ahead of me. Are we any better or have it so much better?? No because we leave every morning or night from our families to protect you, and who knows if each day will ever be our last.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

... I legally carry back and forth from NJ to FL a couple of times a year. The only impediment that I incur is the fact that NJ refuses to recognize that I can carry HP ammo under HR 218. I'm sure this will be corrected in the future....

New Jersey would be very happy to correct this situation.

They're going to do it by making sure you're not carrying anything you could put hollow points into.

 

Why should they honor HR218 when they don't honor the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights?

I believe NJ would like to become a gun-free state.

The failed ammo bill earlier this week, along with the AG's desire to arrest regardless of HR218 are all pretext to abolishing Carry statewide so they can 'ignore/be exempt from' the CCW Reciprocity bill when it gets through the Senate, just like Illinois will.

 

jmho

[KpdPipes 388]

I didn't see any "HATER" posts. Just people telling it the way it is.

 

In every single thread where Cops are mentioned....Ive fought against these stupid laws, vocally, and paid for it throughout my career.and i;m at the point now that IF being a cop makes me unwelcome here..That's cool too....I survived before NJGF< I'll survive without it. We're allowed to carry retired ONLY because a retired chief was shot and killed in Newark a while back..up until then we only got a permit if we had a PI License or Armed Security gig. IIRC the bill to allow it passed by only 1 vote. So When I retire am i Going to carry Yea..Do i Feel BADLY that the rest of you Cannot? Yes i do, and i'll continue to vote, make calls and write letters to change that until i shake the Dust of NJ off my boots for good.

[vladtepes 1,060]

the lives of LEO are not any more sacred than mine or the next guys.. but with that said they spend decades in contact with the bottom of the barrel.. the scummiest of scum.. and it is reasonable to believe out of those MANY encounters one may result in a life or death encounter for a retired officer.. they should without question be allowed to carry a gun.. but so should the rest of us.. I do not think by negatively impacting their lives and potential safety that we net some kind of benefit.. I do not feel "oh good well they are citizens just like us once retired"... like I said that is true.. but there is certainly a heightened threat level..

 

focus on getting us more rights.. not removing the means of protection a retired officer needs..

when rights are cut back and less people can carry.. that is not good for ANY of us..

[Old School 611]

In every single thread where Cops are mentioned....Ive fought against these stupid laws, vocally, and paid for it throughout my career.and i;m at the point now that IF being a cop makes me unwelcome here..That's cool too....I survived before NJGF< I'll survive without it. We're allowed to carry retired ONLY because a retired chief was shot and killed in Newark a while back..up until then we only got a permit if we had a PI License or Armed Security gig. IIRC the bill to allow it passed by only 1 vote. So When I retire am i Going to carry Yea..Do i Feel BADLY that the rest of you Cannot? Yes i do, and i'll continue to vote, make calls and write letters to change that until i shake the Dust of NJ off my boots for good.

 

Al- I for one, and can only speak for my self, always look forward to your take on issues and value your opinions. I'm not sucking up, we've had our differences but, Your opinions are actually sort after at times and I do look for your input. So hang out guy. I think you are very welcome here.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I get why an LEO should be armed active or retired, but there is no real reason a retired leo should be permitted by NJ standards. If he can show a justifiable need then OK. But as far as i'm concerned over a period of 25 years no matter what your profession is you accumulate enemies no matter who you are. The point i would like to make is that everyone should be able to carry, but let's be logical, it's NJ, and no one should be able to bypass the justifiable need based on a previous profession. I for one do not agree with disarming retired LEO but rather argue arming the rest of us.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

In every single thread where Cops are mentioned....Ive fought against these stupid laws, vocally, and paid for it throughout my career.and i;m at the point now that IF being a cop makes me unwelcome here..That's cool too....I survived before NJGF< I'll survive without it. We're allowed to carry retired ONLY because a retired chief was shot and killed in Newark a while back..up until then we only got a permit if we had a PI License or Armed Security gig. IIRC the bill to allow it passed by only 1 vote. So When I retire am i Going to carry Yea..Do i Feel BADLY that the rest of you Cannot? Yes i do, and i'll continue to vote, make calls and write letters to change that until i shake the Dust of NJ off my boots for good.

 

No one here is ragging on the good cops, but let's face it: the fact the profession is marred by the actions of a few bad apples, and few officers publicly speak out against those actions, is why you will always see hate towards LEOs...

 

It's not your fault KpdPipes, it's just the result of decades of corruption from within.

[PeteF 1,044]

the lives of LEO are not any more sacred than mine or the next guys.. but with that said they spend decades in contact with the bottom of the barrel.. the scummiest of scum.. and it is reasonable to believe out of those MANY encounters one may result in a life or death encounter for a retired officer.. they should without question be allowed to carry a gun.. but so should the rest of us.. I do not think by negatively impacting their lives and potential safety that we net some kind of benefit.. I do not feel "oh good well they are citizens just like us once retired"... like I said that is true.. but there is certainly a heightened threat level..

 

focus on getting us more rights.. not removing the means of protection a retired officer needs..

when rights are cut back and less people can carry.. that is not good for ANY of us..

 

What he said.

How is a retired LEO being able to carry hurting anyone else?

Yes it would be great if we ALL could exercise our rights, but why knock the few who can?

Instead we should be after the idiots in Government that make these stupid laws.

[SpecialK 193]

So to sum up this thread from what I can gather:

-Everyone In This Thread is For Carry for All not just retired officers.

-People are happy that retired officers are being treated the same as the rest of us, because perhaps this will light a fire under their butts to be for CCW for all as there is no public outcry from police for the rights of the people to be restored.

-a bunch of people on both sides are getting butt hurt a little, only a little though.

[Malsua 1,422]

In every single thread where Cops are mentioned....Ive fought against these stupid laws, vocally, and paid for it throughout my career.and i;m at the point now that IF being a cop makes me unwelcome here..That's cool too....I survived before NJGF< I'll survive without it. We're allowed to carry retired ONLY because a retired chief was shot and killed in Newark a while back..up until then we only got a permit if we had a PI License or Armed Security gig. IIRC the bill to allow it passed by only 1 vote. So When I retire am i Going to carry Yea..Do i Feel BADLY that the rest of you Cannot? Yes i do, and i'll continue to vote, make calls and write letters to change that until i shake the Dust of NJ off my boots for good.

 

Holy crap. You are one of the good guys. As much as I have issues with authority, I have no issue with your perspective. Please stay around.

[reloaderguy 30]

In every single thread where Cops are mentioned....Ive fought against these stupid laws, vocally, and paid for it throughout my career.and i;m at the point now that IF being a cop makes me unwelcome here..That's cool too....I survived before NJGF< I'll survive without it. We're allowed to carry retired ONLY because a retired chief was shot and killed in Newark a while back..up until then we only got a permit if we had a PI License or Armed Security gig. IIRC the bill to allow it passed by only 1 vote. So When I retire am i Going to carry Yea..Do i Feel BADLY that the rest of you Cannot? Yes i do, and i'll continue to vote, make calls and write letters to change that until i shake the Dust of NJ off my boots for good.

 

Yes. And many unarmed citizens in NJ are killed every year which adds up to more than 1 retired chief.