Sweeney Bill Moved to New Committee

[Newtonian 453]

Disgrace:

 

http://www.anjrpc.org/

 

Facing a "no" vote, these thugs stopped the voting process and have moved these bills to a new committee.

 

The rule of law has ended in New Jersey.

 

[olderguy 0]

The rule of law has ended in New Jersey.

^^^^^^  THIS ^^^^^^

[claptrap 0]

What would be great is if it faces another no vote

[Newtonian 453]

The link provides email addresses of the committee members. I have emailed all of them this rather hastily-crafted note:

 

I am concerned about the upcoming vote in the Assembly Budget Committee on S2723/A4182. Regardless of the merits of this legislation, moving it to your committee after halting the vote in the Law and Public Safety Committee, where this type of legislation belongs, is against NJ Legislature rules. I would hope that our elected officials follow legislative rules, as without them we have chaos.

As for the legislation itself, I believe it is a step backward for our state, and particularly for law-abiding gun owners. You are no doubt aware that New Jersey already has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. 

Many firearm-related acts that have no legal consequence whatsoever in 45 states can send otherwise law-abiding New Jersey citizens to jail for years. Some of these infractions are so slight, so tied up in legalese and judicial interpretation, that they border on tyrannical.

You know where our state's gun problems reside. The part of society that compromises public safety through the illegal use of guns cares nothing about gun laws. 

The legislation that will come before you next week, rather than reducing gun violence, will merely increase burdens and criminal penalties on law-abiding citizens. These bills are onerous, unnecessary, and in my opinion vindictive.

I hope you will consider the points I have made, examine your conscience, refer to the facts instead of emotion, and vote against S2723/A4182.

 

Sincerely yours,

 

(Name deleted only so it does not appear on Google searches)

 

NOTE: I said nothing in the message about God, Natural Rights, self-defense, or the 2nd Amendment. These individuals have heard these arguments ad nauseum. These arguments do not work with them. Although I 100% support them, I am even sick of hearing them. Hey, these legislative committees do not even follow their own rules, much less the Constitution. I believe the best pro-gun arguments in this state are based on common sense, on harmonizing our laws with those of other states, on not creating a new  pseudo-criminal class comprised of honest gun-owners.

[Howard 538]

Its time for term limits!  All politicians should be strictly limited to two terms: the first is in office, and the second is in jail!

[voyager9 3,443]

Supposedly the procedure they used to stop the vote was ok.. not usual, but it was allowed.. saw a reference somewhere.  Despite that I'm still not sure how they can move the bill to the next committee without it being approved.   The previous version went through L&PS committee, then Budget committee, then assembly floor.  How do they bypass one and move the the next without its approval?

[Newtonian 453]

Supposedly the procedure they used to stop the vote was ok.. not usual, but it was allowed.. saw a reference somewhere.  Despite that I'm still not sure how they can move the bill to the next committee without it being approved.   The previous version went through L&PS committee, then Budget committee, then assembly floor.  How do they bypass one and move the the next without its approval?

All you need to know about how NJ government works is to review the facts of Frank Lautenberg's (what I actually call him gets me a skull-and-crossbones from this forum's admin) most recent election. Rules are meant to be broken.

[wooly bugger 1]

Is this even legal? Can we get a court injunction?
In any case, this end run gives Christie every reason to veto.

[njpilot 671]

In any case, this end run gives Christie every reason to veto.

Although Christie is no supporter of the 2A, hopefully he will do this as a poke in the eye of the Dems lawlessness.

[remixer 1,645]

nj is lawless... have you been  reading the news the past month. this whole country s lawless nj is just another state following the feds.

[sinter 4]

According to my Assemblyperson:

 

A bill is not considered "dead" until it has been voted upon and failed to gain enough votes for passage.  An informal poll of the committee membership or an incomplete vote does not qualify as a vote.  The bill's sponsor can request that a vote be stopped and the bill held up until the time that the final vote is tallied.  Since the vote on S2723/A4182 was not final in the committee hearing on June 6, 2013, the bill was officially held and remains as pending in the committee.

 

The sponsor also has the legal option to request a committee change if he/she feels that the originally assigned committee is not the appropriate venue for the bill or if he/she feels that the bill may stand a better chance of passage in a different committee.  The request to transfer is made to the Speaker of the General Assembly and it is her prerogative to grant or not grant the change request.

[bhunted 887]

So basically they can keep on doing this till the game is in their favor? Egadz!

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[ryan_j 0]

I was told by a prominent 2A supporting assemblyman that even if the rules were violated, the judiciary wouldn't care. So you couldn't really sue to strike the law down unless the Constitution was violated, because that is what they care about.

 

What needs to happen is that Christie needs to veto this, and a rules violation is his perfect "out" to throw us a bone yet retain his RINO cred. 

[ryan_j 0]

Supposedly the procedure they used to stop the vote was ok.. not usual, but it was allowed.. saw a reference somewhere.  Despite that I'm still not sure how they can move the bill to the next committee without it being approved.   The previous version went through L&PS committee, then Budget committee, then assembly floor.  How do they bypass one and move the the next without its approval?

 

No it was not OK. It was a rules violation.

 

But do the rules matter? Apparently not. There doesn't seem to be any repercussions for a rules violation. So it is not a "problem" for anyone. 

 

WE need to turn it into one. We need to push Christie to veto it, and we need to support Sweeney's opponent and give him the boot. You hear me? We need to make this Sweeney's problem. He has to pay for this. No ifs, ands or buts. And he has a lot of gun owners and hunters in his district. 

[plode 0]

Nevermind.

[njpilot 671]

I was told by a prominent 2A supporting assemblyman that even if the rules were violated, the judiciary wouldn't care. So you couldn't really sue to strike the law down unless the Constitution was violated, because that is what they care about.

 

What needs to happen is that Christie needs to veto this, and a rules violation is his perfect "out" to throw us a bone yet retain his RINO cred. 

 

You sure about that? I believe our Supreme Court violated the State Constitution when they allowed the mummy to run in place of the torch.

[olderguy 0]

You sure about that? I believe our Supreme Court violated the State Constitution when they allowed the mummy to run in place of the torch.

agreed!

[Newtonian 453]

 

According to my Assemblyperson:

 

A bill is not considered "dead" until it has been voted upon and failed to gain enough votes for passage.  An informal poll of the committee membership or an incomplete vote does not qualify as a vote.  The bill's sponsor can request that a vote be stopped and the bill held up until the time that the final vote is tallied.  Since the vote on S2723/A4182 was not final in the committee hearing on June 6, 2013, the bill was officially held and remains as pending in the committee.

 

The sponsor also has the legal option to request a committee change if he/she feels that the originally assigned committee is not the appropriate venue for the bill or if he/she feels that the bill may stand a better chance of passage in a different committee.  The request to transfer is made to the Speaker of the General Assembly and it is her prerogative to grant or not grant the change request.

 

Your assembly person might be wrong. During the actual vote, after the chairman declared the ONGOING vote null and void, he was challenged by one of the men in the room. The ensuing discussion lasted a few minutes. When the meeting was adjourned the person who objected looked at the guy sitting next to him. I could not hear him, nor am I a good lip reader. What it appeared he said, judging from his facial expressions, was a more civil version of, "Can you believe this f*****g s**t?"

 

This is Gangsta Land, my friend. We make up the rules as we go along.

 

I'd already mentioned the Lautenberg (not the name I would use, because he was less "laut" then "L***E" -- I was given a demerit for dissing a public figure too soon after his death) incident. A man with no sh*me, because he was a "veteran," like there haven't been a lot of war veterans who turned out to be creeps. I didn't want to say "shame" because I might get another demerit. 

 

The ruling party may not write the rules, but they get the opportunity to make 'em up as they go along. 

 

Changing the committee is about the lowest a decent person could imagine. 

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Hey Newtonian, nice letter. 

[MeanderingCuban 8]

Below is the email I sent to all members to the Budget Committee today.  It's obvious that they do not care about 2A rights but they go care about money. I have also called their offices stating the same thing as my letter.   We need to drive the point home that this Bill is a massive waste of tax payer dollars and it is political suicide for their party as it will be used against them in the November election if they pass the Bill.  Please get on the phones, email and faxes to all members of the Budget Committee and do not stop until the vote is over.

 

Dear Assembly Budget Committee,

I am writing to express my concern over the financial burden of Bill S2723/A4182 to New Jersey taxpayers and our State.  I have been following this Bill since its inception and it is obvious that overhauling the current FID system to tune of an undefined cost is, in New Jersey's current financial state, an irresponsible action and unfair burden to every New Jersey taxpayer and resident regardless of party affiliation or views on gun control. 

Given the current state of New Jersey's economy, I must stress the importance of being fiscally responsible and not passing this Bill. S2723/A4182 is not an essential Bill and provides for no positive outcome or benefits for our State and its residents. The current FID and Permit-To-Purchase system is in place and working. To spend tax dollars on an expensive overhaul with no true benefits is a irresponsible decision that affects all tax payers.  

If this Bill was about about providing pain medication to those undergoing cancer treatment or individuals facing a painful end-of-life illnesses then I would be the first person supporting such a bill regardless of cost. However,  I cannot support a Bill that provides no other benefit to our State and its residents other than overhauling a FID and Permit-To-Purchase system that has been in place since 1960 and has been working. 

Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this further.

[410guy 5]

Nothing surprises me in this state anymore. The ruling liberal regime does what it wants, rules and laws dont apply to them apparently.

[JohnnyB 4,339]

I sent the text below to every Assembly person on the new committee.

 

Dear Assembly Member,


In a stunning display of disregard for the rule of law, on June 6th Democrats halted a roll call vote-in-progress on this bill
in the Assembly Law & Public Safety Committee, when it became apparent that they did not have enough votes to pass the bill.
Rather than complete the roll call as required by legislative rules, chaos and confusion ensued as the committee chairman and staffers
simply stopped the vote and huddled in an adjacent room before announcing that they would ignore the vote and "hold” the bill.  
Republican members of the committee protested the unlawful procedure and argued with the chairman.    

I am a law abiding citizen of the State of New Jersey. I am also an active voter in all elections. Please read the laws of the State of
New Jersey before you cast your vote as it would clearly be an illegal vote. Your actions, should you proceed with this vote, will be unlawful.
The results will be challenged and hopefully, those who participated in the unlawful vote will pay dearly in the next election.

If you decide to vote knowing that procedure has been ignored, I ask that you vote NO!

Best Regards,

John W. Brisbin Jr.
Woodbury, NJ

[silverado427 10,839]

NJ politics at its best.

[wooly bugger 1]

Below is the email I sent to all members to the Budget Committee today.  It's obvious that they do not care about 2A rights but they go care about money. I have also called their offices stating the same thing as my letter.   We need to drive the point home that this Bill is a massive waste of tax payer dollars and it is political suicide for their party as it will be used against them in the November election if they pass the Bill.  Please get on the phones, email and faxes to all members of the Budget Committee and do not stop until the vote is over.

 

Dear Assembly Budget Committee,

I am writing to express my concern over the financial burden of Bill S2723/A4182 to New Jersey taxpayers and our State.  I have been following this Bill since its inception and it is obvious that overhauling the current FID system to tune of an undefined cost is, in New Jersey's current financial state, an irresponsible action and unfair burden to every New Jersey taxpayer and resident regardless of party affiliation or views on gun control. 

Given the current state of New Jersey's economy, I must stress the importance of being fiscally responsible and not passing this Bill. S2723/A4182 is not an essential Bill and provides for no positive outcome or benefits for our State and its residents. The current FID and Permit-To-Purchase system is in place and working. To spend tax dollars on an expensive overhaul with no true benefits is a irresponsible decision that affects all tax payers.  

If this Bill was about about providing pain medication to those undergoing cancer treatment or individuals facing a painful end-of-life illnesses then I would be the first person supporting such a bill regardless of cost. However,  I cannot support a Bill that provides no other benefit to our State and its residents other than overhauling a FID and Permit-To-Purchase system that has been in place since 1960 and has been working. 

Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this further.

That's a great letter.

I think we should all focus on the $$ and not on our rights. They obviously don't give a rat's ass about the latter, but we can roast them if we can paint them as profligate spenders. I would also focus on that fact that "even" Cryan, who hates guns as much as any of them, wouldn't vote for this POS.

[Mr.Stu 1,936]

Hi all - new here but agree with pretty much everything on the board.

 

I have just sent this in email to all 12 members of the budget committee and I encourage everybody to also send a note.

 

Dear Assembly member,

 

I am writing to appeal to your sense of logic and judgment and to cast aside partisan pressure. On Monday Assembly bill A4182 will be before you. This is the bill that would have been rejected in the General Assembly Law and Public Safety committee on June 6^th if the chairman had followed the committee rules and allowed the in-progress vote to be completed.

 

I am unable to understand how this bill did not pass a vote in that committee but has been passed to your committee anyway.

 

In that committee hearing the question of the expected cost of this bill was queried and no cost estimate could be determined. As a member of the Assembly Budget Committee I expect you to examine the proposed bill with a view to ensuring the State’s funds are not spent uncontrollably. If this bill passes your committee you are effectively handing over blank check. This would not be in the best interests of the State especially given the current financial situation.

 

Passing this bill would be a particularly irresponsible action considering that none of the elements of the bill would prevent the unlawful use of a firearm. The existing system is one of the most restrictive in the country already. Further restriction is wholly unnecessary.

 

Please remember, it is already illegal to commit an assault on a person. It is irrelevant whether a firearm is employed in the assault nor is it relevant whether that firearm was purchased legally or not. Further restriction on law abiding people obtaining firearms will have no effect on people who are willing to disregard the law.

 

Please vote no to this bill.

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Here is my letter to them tonight.

 

Dear Assembly Budget Committee members,

 

I am concerned about the upcoming vote in the Assembly Budget Committee on S2723/A4182. I would like to URGE you to vote NO on the following bills S2723/A4182. These bills will do nothing to prevent senseless gun crimes. Criminals do not buy guns legally or get background checks. Changing the FID process will do nothing against criminals. These bills will only affect law-abiding gun owners in the state of New Jersey.

 

The state has neither the time, nor the money to implement another long and archaic NICS or a new FID card system. Currently it takes a law-abiding citizen over six months to obtain an FID card. That is ridiculous. It takes several more months after that to obtain a pistol purchase permit. Then another background check is run at the point of purchase at the FFL dealer. Meanwhile, criminals continue to buy guns illegal. A new NICS or FID card system will cost the State hundreds of thousands of dollars to implement and maintain. Money we do not have for a system that will not prevent any more gun crimes from occurring. I think valuable Trooper resources can be used elsewhere to better fight crime.

 

S2723/A4182 is not an essential Bill and provides for no positive outcome or benefits for our State and its residents. The current FID and Permit-To-Purchase system is in place and working. To spend tax dollars on an expensive overhaul with no true benefits is an irresponsible decision that affects all tax payers.

 

What we, and you, should focus more on is the penalties for having an illegal firearm or committing a crime with a firearm. Criminals often times get several slaps on the wrist and plea bargain their way out of heavier fines and jail time by the bogged down Superior Court Criminal justice system, the Judges, and the Prosecutors. We need more enforcement of the current laws; not more restrictive unenforced laws.

 

I am a law abiding citizen of the State of New Jersey. I am also an active voter in all elections. I will not forget your vote come election time.

 

Sincerely yours,

[plode 0]

I sent my e-mail out to all of them. 

[bravozulu14 0]

email sent to all of them.  phone calls to follow.

[1LtCAP 4,265]

sent email last night, kinda late, but sent.

 

 i really liked the fiscal aspects that a couple of you guys hit, and went there with it, pretty much copying your guys lines of thought. what i forgot to include, was the fact that a bill concerning firearms really truly does not belong in the budget committee.

[ryan_j 0]

1LtCAP - your last point was very important. If this can't pass LPS it needs to die. They can't keep shopping around for committees until they find one that passes the bill.