RUTGERS95 890 Posted June 26, 2013 The Perp WENT UPSTAIRS to rummage through the bed rooms. When he came back down the stairs she should have ENDED HIM! A covert hiding place for a firearm on each floor would have saved the day. We can all "what-if" this to death. The facts speak for themselves. She was a typical North Jersey deer-in-the-headlights anti-gun dipshit, otherwise during the interview she would have stated she wanted to get her gun.....so THERE, I said it! agree with this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PDM 91 Posted June 26, 2013 Jauslong -- all valid points. Training is key. I think 1 year of dedicated Krav training is enough to give even a relatively slight woman more than a fighting chance. Remember, we are talking about a situation where there are no good options -- not a bar fight or street fight where two guys square off to prove who's got the bigger package. And not every attacker is your size or has your experience. While martial arts like Tae Kwan Do and Karate can be great fun and a good workout, I think you'd need to practice for many years to make them effective in a real self-defense situation. Other martial arts -- krav maga (not technically a "martial art") among others -- are much more to the point. Throat and groin strikes, elbow strikes, eye gouges, low side or front kicks to the knee. The kind of "dirty" fighting that actually works. I think one of the biggest advantages to training is learning how to be aggressive and get out of your comfort zone; most people never have the opportunity to do or practice that and can't just "turn on" that response when actually faced with a deadly threat, so they freeze. And to "win" here, all you need to do is make it more attractive for the attacker to run out the door rather than stay and fight. At the very least, it gives options. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
locochinoloco 0 Posted June 26, 2013 Honestly, growing up in NYC from the early 80-90s, hanging out with the wrong crowd and military has taught me how fast SHTF can really be. That's why I opt to live in an apartment with only 1 entry/exit point. Unless the perp leaps in through the 6th floor windows or rappel, there is no way in. I also make sure I have solid dead bolt lock(s) and steel door/frame. I like to sit with my back against the wall and always look at the entrance whenever I'm at a public establishment. Most might say I'm paranoid, but after the things I've seen and done, I beg to differ. It's true that people usually investigate during day light hours just to see what is going on and the audible alarm might have scared or induced other unwanted action from the perp. From many post, the video was edit and there was about a minute of physical contact and I guess the 9 minutes where she could have done "something". My wife is 5'1" and 110lbs soaking wet. I doubt there was much she could have done if the perp was on top of her, but I know she wouldn't go out without a fight. I always told her, the first thing do is run and grab anything, a pen, a fork, a spoon, whatever and you go for the vital points, but keep the weapon close to you and don't fully extend your arm so they can't grab it. If you're fortunate enough the get a hold of the machete in the den, don't swing too wide. If you get to the guns, let it rip and think the dude is one of the steel plates that we shoot at. I think Krav Maga is a great option, all the martial without the art. Effective street fighting techniques. Bottom line, as some mention earlier you can prepare as much as you can but there is always Murphy. It's about mind set and being prepared for the worst, and then you hope for the best. Hindsight is 20/20. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PDM 91 Posted June 26, 2013 One other thought -- especially for those husbands/ boyfriends who already have some training and/or fighting experience. If you don't have the time or cash for a formal MA school (and sometimes it's hard to find one that's worthwhile) get a standing heavy bag (the kind with a base you fill with water or sand), a muay thai heavy pad (or other type of heavy large pad that can be held and take knee strikes and side/back kicks) and a few light hand-held sparring pads. Teach your wife/girlfriend how to throw a basic punch, elbow strike, basic front snap kick and a low side kick. Nothing fancy. Have her yell and scream and work at the bag and the pads in 30 second or one minute drills (or do a tabata type workout) at max intensity. Encourage aggression, yelling, etc. Teach some very basic, simple movements -- eg how to counter bear hug from behind, get in a low crouch for stability, then stamp the foot, and/or quick and hard elbow strikes around to the grabbing person's head (most untrained people don't know to rest their head on the person's back when grabbing from behind and leave themselves wide open) twist around after the grip is loosened and then follow with kick to groin, knee strike etc). The woman in the video could have used this simple technique. You get the idea. I really think if a couple works at this regularly for a while it will definitely impart some self confidence and skills. Of course, this assumes you don't mind your wife beating you up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSD1026 48 Posted June 26, 2013 i know this wont necessarily be popular, but ill say it anyway.. for those of us that do not have kids (and do not ever have kids over at their houses), my wife and I have been talking about having a "gun available in every accessible room".. by that it means if someone breaks into the upstairs bedroom, we have a gun available in the living room on the other end of the house.. if he breaks into the front door, depending on where we are, we have a couple upstairs guns and a couple downstairs guns.. if they break in downstairs in the back door, we have the upstairs guns accessible.. if they break in the sliding door in the back, we have the guns in the living room or the upstairs bedroom readily accessible.. this will not work for many.. (or maybe even "most"), but in my particular situation, this is a realistic thing. my wife cant fight, but she can shoot (and she has had her FID for years, much longer than i have) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babyface Finster 45 Posted June 26, 2013 Focusing too much on the weapon you would protect yourself with is a bad idea. You have to look at your home from the outside in and see what can be done to prevent the situation in the first place. How do you reduce the chances of being targeted in the first place? Put up alarm signs even if you don't have an alarm. Same for "Beware of Dog" signs. Don't leave doors open to the world. Have window coverings and close them. I can't believe how many of my neighbors have nothing on their windows. When I walk my dog I can look right in and see their faces and what they are watching on TV. When a criminal sees nice furniture and a big TV from the street, there's good reason for him to think there are more goodies inside. In the same vein, don't leave the boxes from expensive products at the curb. Throw them away at work. If you have to have repairmen or utility workers into your house, limit them only to the areas they absolutely need to be in and put as much stuff away as possible. Having a couple iPads on the coffee table and a big jewelry box out on the dresser is just asking someone to come back later for them. Put up motion lights. Cut back vegetation so that there are no obscurred areas that a criminal can work without being seen. Etc. Once you've been targeted, how do you reduce the chances that the criminal actually tries to enter the home? My best suggestion is to have a large dog. The kind that barks when anyone gets close to the house. My German Shepherd won't let anyone get close to the house without alerting me. It would be near impossible for someone to sneak up on me. Criminals know this. They don't like the attention and they sure as hell don't like you being on your guard. I'm sure the prospect of a savage dog attack ain;t too comforting either. Without a dog, at least have an alarm system. Don't leave items around the house that can facilitate entry. My neighbor leaves an ax, sledgehammer and wedge by his woodpile year round. Not too smart. When someone unexpectedly knocks at the door, respond. Don't necessarily open the door, but make sure they know you are there. If you do have to open the door, only open it as wide as you have to for communication. Don't let them look inside your house and you sure as hell don't invite them in. In my case, I am always holding back a 90lb beast who is barking and staining to get at the visitor. I usually apologize and then comment that I hope I can hold the dog back. They usually retreat to the bottom of the steps at that point. Also, those fancy entry doors with the glass panels on each side look pretty, but are a security joke. As with so many things, it is usually best when form follows function. As has already been said, lock your doors and harden all entry points. Window A/C units should be avoided if your windows are easily accessible from the ground. Etc. Look at your neighbors. Make your home noticeably less inviting and appealing to a criminal. Unless he has a specific reason to come looking for you, he will most likely move on down the block to an easire target. Now is when you think of weaponry. Yes, weapons are crucial, but if you plan properly odds are you will never need them. I have numerous weapons stashed throughout the house, all inaccessible to children and all ready to rock and roll. With the canine early warning system and a reasonable well thought out home, any POS that decides to threaten the safety of my family is going to have a bad, bad day. Bank on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nickel1911 0 Posted June 27, 2013 How bout adding a Pitbull to the family? They WILL protect their family without hesitation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A-Tech 8 Posted June 27, 2013 I know mine has/does. My bedroom is the farthest room from the entry. When something doesn't sound right to him, he immediately jumps up and runs to the door barking. If he does that, I know it's time to grab my gun. It's only happened 3 times in 3yrs. He knows the difference between people walking by, and people with bad intentions. He's also trained to be my wife's guardian. He will kill me to protect her if I so much as push her down...other than that he's a huge goofball. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted June 27, 2013 She also knows how to get to any of my guns if needed. im a little late to the party here.. but GOOD LUCK... in a situation where there is an intense sudden entry you will have access to what you have in about a 2 ft range.... this animal was fast and aggressive.. you are not running to a safe.. unlocking guns.. getting ready.. etc.. you have a gun ON YOU or you are beat... this situation has forced my fiance to actually go through the motions to understand how to respond to something like this... it is a shame that we have to live like this in America... a shame that you have to not feel completely secure in your own home... have a gun available to you... within reach... know how to get it quickly... and know how to send shots towards the threat... that is the only thing that might save you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted June 27, 2013 One other thought -- especially for those husbands/ boyfriends who already have some training and/or fighting experience. If you don't have the time or cash for a formal MA school (and sometimes it's hard to find one that's worthwhile) get a standing heavy bag (the kind with a base you fill with water or sand), a muay thai heavy pad (or other type of heavy large pad that can be held and take knee strikes and side/back kicks) and a few light hand-held sparring pads. Teach your wife/girlfriend how to throw a basic punch, elbow strike, basic front snap kick and a low side kick. Nothing fancy. Have her yell and scream and work at the bag and the pads in 30 second or one minute drills (or do a tabata type workout) at max intensity. Encourage aggression, yelling, etc. Teach some very basic, simple movements -- eg how to counter bear hug from behind, get in a low crouch for stability, then stamp the foot, and/or quick and hard elbow strikes around to the grabbing person's head (most untrained people don't know to rest their head on the person's back when grabbing from behind and leave themselves wide open) twist around after the grip is loosened and then follow with kick to groin, knee strike etc). The woman in the video could have used this simple technique. You get the idea. I really think if a couple works at this regularly for a while it will definitely impart some self confidence and skills. Of course, this assumes you don't mind your wife beating you up. groin and throat strikes..... eye gouges.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob2222 317 Posted June 27, 2013 A dog. But she must be careful to select the correct breed of dog. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevD 0 Posted June 27, 2013 This may seem harsh, but a gun should be their first choice of defense. If that is not attainable, then fight back. Too many sheeple in this world. If one is not willing to defend themselves in some manner, then .... Agreed .. Statistics show fighting back works to deter assailants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted June 27, 2013 Agreed .. Statistics show fighting back works to deter assailants especially if you light them up as they are headed at you.. I am sure a hail of rounds coming at them takes a little out of their fight mode.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcbethr 42 Posted June 27, 2013 A dog. But she must be careful to select the correct breed of dog. Forget about a dog or a gun. You need a Donk. you don't need a gun when you have a Donk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted June 27, 2013 i know this wont necessarily be popular, but ill say it anyway.. for those of us that do not have kids (and do not ever have kids over at their houses), my wife and I have been talking about having a "gun available in every accessible room".. by that it means if someone breaks into the upstairs bedroom, we have a gun available in the living room on the other end of the house.. if he breaks into the front door, depending on where we are, we have a couple upstairs guns and a couple downstairs guns.. if they break in downstairs in the back door, we have the upstairs guns accessible.. if they break in the sliding door in the back, we have the guns in the living room or the upstairs bedroom readily accessible.. this will not work for many.. (or maybe even "most"), but in my particular situation, this is a realistic thing. my wife cant fight, but she can shoot (and she has had her FID for years, much longer than i have) Clock safes are great for this. In fact if you put them high enough they are good for homes with kids too. A friend of mine has several guns planted all over his house and you would never know where they are. He knows where they are though and no one coming to his home uninvited would have a chance. He also has a NY carry permit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted June 27, 2013 Look up videos on kicking doors in. In most cases it isn't that difficult, especially for a guy the size of this animal. In most cases , all the deadbolt is doing is securing into roughly 2.5" of cheap pine door frame material. Not very strong. The deadbolt and door will hold, the frame and molding will fly right off with a good kick. I installed a Door Devil anti-kick system on my front door. It consists of a long metal plate that attaches to the inside of the door frame, with 6-8 long hardened screws. These screws go through the frame and into the structural part of the house frame. It comes with some other items as well, like a deadbolt plate, and hinge screws. It probably won't make it impossible to kick the door in, but it sure will delay the bad guy for at least many minutes. Crooks aren't dumb, after multiple kicks with nothing budging, they will scoot. Plus it gives the home occupants time to react. Glass doors are more tricky. I am installing security film soon on my sliding doors. This will also serve as a delay mechanism, and will surprise anyone trying to break the glass. They won't be prepared, and will give time for the occupants to react. Combined with a sliding door drop bar and/or anti-lift pin, the crook would have to meticulously break all the glass and film before gaining entry or he/she would be subject to dealing with shattered tempered glass chunks stuck to film which would cause cuts, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bulpup 98 Posted June 27, 2013 Glass doors are more tricky. I am installing security film soon on my sliding doors. This will also serve as a delay mechanism, and will surprise anyone trying to break the glass. Which film are you getting? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinter 4 Posted June 27, 2013 I agree with the dog solution, but plan on the dog keeping the invader occupied long enough for you to get your handgun; once the release command is given if the invader continues, figure on having to call in a hazardous waste cleanup crew to clean up the blood splatter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nickel1911 0 Posted June 28, 2013 Haha he called that man "Diesel" with a straight face Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SteveInNJ 0 Posted June 28, 2013 What if this scumbag had different intentions other than a robbery? It's always easier to look back and change the scenario but I would want my wife to fight back. I agree with having tightened physical security but a lot of people today are too soft... Stop just hitting "Arm" on the security system and know that you may, one day, have to fight for your life or that of your children. I would rather fight it out then HOPE that he isn't there for some twisted sick kicks. I hope this doesn't happen to us or anyone else ever again but things are changing. People are changing. The crime is spreading further and further away from the inner city... yet... all our lawmakers are concerned about is that "one guy" with "thousands of rounds of ammo". Just fight back... take back your life. It's better, IMO, to know that you did everything you could to save not only your life,but that of your offspring, in the event the intruder was out for rape, torture, and murder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted June 28, 2013 Dogs are great alarm systems. The more protective the dog is of their environment the better. My 11 year old rescue dog has diabetes, is pretty much blind, but still lets me know if anyone comes up the driveway. She actually lets me know when the mailman stops at the mailbox alongside the rode and when the school bus makes its stop in the morning and afternoon. She's not well trained but will calm down a bit when I tell her "good girl" (reward) and "its okay" (reassurance). I'm not so keen on pepper spray, moreso bear spray. Either is also going to give the defender a blast. Sure thing with a bear spray used indoors unless your rooms are gigantic. Martial Arts are great but you have to devote the time to acquire usable skills and practice. A few months in a local dojo wil not prepare anyone to take on a hardened street criminal.Someone mentioned throat and groin strikes. Now I have had a fair bit of martial arts training and have gotten to use it on a regular basis as a LEO (no I'm not a street brawler). An experienced and/or well trained male fighter will always be willing to take a hit somewhere else in order to protect his groin. Why? Because he knows a solid blow to the groin will put him out of action while he knows he can take a hit to the face or anywhere else. Groin shots only work whne you'vr done something else to distract or otherwise occupy your attacker. Firearms are the best option AFAIC. Yes, shotguns are great and 223/5.56 carbines are best but they both lack the maneuverability of a handgun. Why would you pick a subcompact? Size is not an issue if you are carrying at home. it can be an issue with weapon retention but can be solved with proper training. If you want to carry at home all the time thats fine but you will soon grow tired of it. The best option AFAIK is to have several handguns startegically located throughout your home if your situation allows it. My wife disliked semi-autos for a variety of reasons and many of my favorite revolvers became "hers". Capacity issue? Not really once I was showing her how to use a speedloader and she did but afterwards she said to me "I'm really not going to need this because if I run out of ammo I'm just going for another gun". My take. Your situation may be totally different. Alarms are okay but they only alert someone to pick up the pieces if that's all you rely on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winmag45 14 Posted June 28, 2013 The real answer to this is that they should have kept this animal locked up when they locked him up the first 4 or 10 times.Im sure if they catch him he will have a rap sheet a mile long. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm1827 284 Posted June 28, 2013 I also think that everyone needs to assume that any home invasion has the potential to turn violent very quickly, especially our politicians and the media. I am 100% positive that this would not have garnered as much attention as it did without the video footage. It is all too easy for the pols and the media to judge a homeowner that does fight back. There was an elderly man several months ago in another state that killed 1 or 2 individuals that invaded his home and attempted to rob him and he was very harshly criticized because they were unarmed. I think everyone needs to assume that this is the intent of the intruder and they need to be dealt with appropriately. I do not want to hear about how good the boy was that invaded someone's home, how he is "misunderstood" and that he deserves a second chance. Anyone that makes the decision to cross that line and enter someone's home is capable of and likely to harm those that live there. Period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChadShaft 0 Posted June 28, 2013 I also think that everyone needs to assume that any home invasion has the potential to turn violent very quickly, especially our politicians and the media. I am 100% positive that this would not have garnered as much attention as it did without the video footage. It is all too easy for the pols and the media to judge a homeowner that does fight back. There was an elderly man several months ago in another state that killed 1 or 2 individuals that invaded his home and attempted to rob him and he was very harshly criticized because they were unarmed. I think everyone needs to assume that this is the intent of the intruder and they need to be dealt with appropriately. I do not want to hear about how good the boy was that invaded someone's home, how he is "misunderstood" and that he deserves a second chance. Anyone that makes the decision to cross that line and enter someone's home is capable of and likely to harm those that live there. Period. The only person that breaks into your house that is looking to do any good is Santa Claus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted June 28, 2013 I also think that everyone needs to assume that any home invasion has the potential to turn violent very quickly, especially our politicians and the media. I am 100% positive that this would not have garnered as much attention as it did without the video footage. This is a very important point. A home invasion is not a burglar unintentionally encountering a homeowner where the burglar will flee as long as they have an escape route. The invader doesn't care you are there and has already made a decision to do you harm. Its easy to claim you will always stay in Condition Yellow and always be vigilant. However, even Jeff Cooper admitted going to Condition White at times. This is where people like cops, experienced combat troops, firefighters, emts, and some others have an advantage. They have a lot of experience having to go from Condition White to Red directly. Most people just don't have to do this. You can be the best. competition shooter going but that has absolutely no relation to how you'll do in a fight. Force on force training can help to an extent but is still far from the real thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bulpup 98 Posted June 28, 2013 This is where people like cops, experienced combat troops, firefighters, emts, and some others have an advantage. They have a lot of experience having to go from Condition White to Red directly. Most people just don't have to do this. and this guy http://youtu.be/Z6mXfFTOxbM Man that took too long to get that link to work. Anyway, that window film idea is a great hit with the wife. Not only does it give us some time if some tries to punch in a window, but it also helps keep the house cool in the summer. I am very happy about the idea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,730 Posted June 28, 2013 They ID the scumbag in the video. http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2013/06/suspect_identified_in_milburn_home_invasion_beating.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,369 Posted June 29, 2013 and this guy Man that took too long to get that link to work. Anyway, that window film idea is a great hit with the wife. Not only does it give us some time if some tries to punch in a window, but it also helps keep the house cool in the summer. I am very happy about the idea I'd say Tyrone is right there. I bet they gave up on that prank. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites