Questions for NJSP Firearms Investigation Unit at NJ SAFE Conference

[John Willett 70]

Hello, 

 

We reached out to the State Police Firearms Investigation Unit to join us at the SAFE Conference this year.  They want to know what they should be prepared to talk about, and asked us to send them some questions.  

 

So, if you have a question for the NJSP Firearms Unit, please post it below or email it to [email protected]

 

Thanks!

[Khamil10 5]

What guidelines, if any, do they offer troopers with respect to what constitutes a "reasonable deviation" in transit to or from a range? Or is it up to each individual trooper to arrive at his or her own definition?

[Howard 538]

Exactly!  Would be nice to know if taking a leak or getting gas is reasonable.  What about stopping for a bite to eat?

[Silence Dogood 468]

"For the record, how do you determine the difference between a NJ legal compensator (or muzzle brake) and an (illegal) flash hider?"

 

I know the answer, but it would be interesting to get them on the record.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Exactly!  Would be nice to know if taking a leak or getting gas is reasonable.  What about stopping for a bite to eat?

Bring a sandwich & pee in a jug?

[T Bill 649]

Ask about magazine capacity. What counts when determining capacity, ie. 22 shorts vs 22LR, or 2 3/4 vs 3 inch shells.  

[mustang69 505]

How about asking them for advice on dealing with permitting delays or additional requirements put in place by towns?

[DAHL 59]

Just for info on semiautomatics with a pistol grip:

Must not be on the ban list of specifically banned models, have fixed or pinned butt stock, no bayonet lug, no threaded barrel and no flash hider.  Magazine limit is 15 rds.  You can use a permanently attached (pin and/or welded on}  muzzle brake but the criteria is normally that the opening on the end must be bore size or close to it.  If you are challenged by the system for not using a proper muzzle brake, it is up to the prosecutor to test and prove that your muzzle device is not a flash hider. I have not heard of an instance where this has been done.

The NJ law on semi-auto rifles is certainly restrictive and unlike the NY or CT SAFE acts many semi-auto rifles are allowed. In those states you cannot even have a pistol grip which has led to some very weird looking AR rifles with a snake like fixed stock. I predict that the SAFE act will be introduced as legislation after Chris Christie leaves office next year. Its going to be hard to stop it.

[djg0770 481]

I'd like to know when they intend to have the NJSP follow the thirty day law with regard to permit applications at their various barracks.

[maintenanceguy 510]

The court case that ruled police could ignore the 30 day statute really said that the clock started after the criminal background check was back from the fbi. Now, the background check is online and instant and NICS is instant. Will njsp be completing applications in 30 days?

[weekend_junkie 129]

Ask about magazine capacity. What counts when determining capacity, ie. 22 shorts vs 22LR, or 2 3/4 vs 3 inch shells.

Good point. The KSG bullpup shotgun can hold 14 rounds of 12 gauge in 2 3/4. Aguilla be has minishells at 1 3/4, the KSG can hold 22.

[fishnut 2,358]

Isent the KSG a pump gun?

[djg0770 481]

Magazine capacity only applies to semiautomatic firearms

 

As for caliber, read the statute. If it continously feeds any caliber that's the criteria. So if your semi auto tube feed rifle can hold 50 shorts but it can't feed them continuously then that's your answer.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

How about asking them for advice on dealing with permitting delays or additional requirements put in place by towns?

take this one a step farther.

2C:58-3   f Granting of permit or identification card; fee; term; renewal; revocation. The application for the permit to purchase a handgun together with a fee of $2, or the application for the firearms purchaser identification card together with a fee of $5, shall be delivered or forwarded to the licensing authority who shall investigate the same and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefor, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State and within 45 days for nonresident applicants. A permit to purchase a handgun shall be valid for a period of 90 days from the date of issuance and may be renewed by the issuing authority for good cause for an additional 90 days. A firearms purchaser identification card shall be valid until such time as the holder becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of this section, whereupon the card shall be void and shall be returned within five days by the holder to the superintendent, who shall then advise the licensing authority. Failure of the holder to return the firearms purchaser identification card to the superintendent within the said five days shall be an offense under subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:39-10. Any firearms purchaser identification card may be revoked by the Superior Court of the county wherein the card was issued, after hearing upon notice, upon a finding that the holder thereof no longer qualifies for the issuance of such permit. The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality or any citizen may apply to such court at any time for the revocation of such card.

 

     There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter.

 

the highlighted parts above. what recourse do we have when the 30 day statute has been broken? i had called the state pd a few years back, and the people i talked to had no clue about the 30 day statute. also, the second highlighted part, since towns seem to be adding their own requirements. and i would quote them the statute for this.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

also, if they could define "unloaded" since there's constantly discussions going on if we can transport loaded mags or not. and finally.....i truly hope this entire thing is going to be recorded......

[1LtCAP 4,264]

The court case that ruled police could ignore the 30 day statute really said that the clock started after the criminal background check was back from the fbi. Now, the background check is online and instant and NICS is instant. Will njsp be completing applications in 30 days?

the statute says differently.

[John Willett 70]

also, if they could define "unloaded" since there's constantly discussions going on if we can transport loaded mags or not. and finally.....i truly hope this entire thing is going to be recorded......

 

Yes, we plan to record the entire conference.

[John Willett 70]

Some great questions here.  Keep em coming. 

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Why do those applications processed by the NJSP barracks take so much longer than those processed by municipal entities?

 

Why do all PD's feel that it is OK, when allocating resources, to ignore the processing of firearms applications?

 

Anything else I can think of is more a question for for the legislative or judicial branch.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

The court case that ruled police could ignore the 30 day statute really said that the clock started after the criminal background check was back from the fbi. Now, the background check is online and instant and NICS is instant. Will njsp be completing applications in 30 days?

 

As I understand it, the usual bottleneck is the mental health records check. These may or may not be digitized and are held and checked at the county level, not a centralized statewide database. In some cases you have clerks searching hardcopy records.

 

The original ruling (Adler v. Litvak) that allowed the police to ignore the 30 day statutory limitation was based on the FBI's time to process the fingerprint check. That ruling was made prior to the implementation of AFIS. It now takes seconds to search the federal fingerprint database, rather than the days, weeks or months it used to take the FBI to do a physical search. A) Why haven't we seen a corresponding reduction in the time of processing? B) What needs to be done to have the judiciary revisit a decision that was based on, now, obsolete criteria?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[PK90 3,570]

They me guess at the answers you will most likely get: (part 1)

 

What guidelines, if any, do they offer troopers with respect to what constitutes a "reasonable deviation" in transit to or from a range? Or is it up to each individual trooper to arrive at his or her own definition?

The NJSP are trained to make a decision on the totality of the circumstances on a case by case basis.

 

Exactly!  Would be nice to know if taking a leak or getting gas is reasonable.  What about stopping for a bite to eat?

Reasonable will be left up to the courts to decide. When dealing with firearms, the gunowner is at their own peril. (Or something like that)

 

"For the record, how do you determine the difference between a NJ legal compensator (or muzzle brake) and an (illegal) flash hider?"

 

I know the answer, but it would be interesting to get them on the record.

If it suppresses a flash, it is a flash suppressor. The NJSP Firearms Ballistic Unit is trained to do the testing.

 

Bring a sandwich & pee in a jug?

No comment.

 

Ask about magazine capacity. What counts when determining capacity, ie. 22 shorts vs 22LR, or 2 3/4 vs 3 inch shells.  

If a firearm is labeled as accepting 22 shorts in addition to 22 long rifle rounds, the capacity will be determined based on the shorter cartridge.

 

How about asking them for advice on dealing with permitting delays or additional requirements put in place by towns?

When we are asked to investigate the delays, we contact the PD on every request, and inquire about the delay. Manpower and workloads are the reason for the delays. <crickets>

[PK90 3,570]

They me guess at the answers you will most likely get: (part 2)

 

I'd like to know when they intend to have the NJSP follow the thirty day law with regard to permit applications at their various barracks.

We at the FIU, process the background checks in a timely manner. The 30 day law is a guideline and has been found to be that in case law. Manpower and workloads are the reason for the delays. <crickets>

 

The court case that ruled police could ignore the 30 day statute really said that the clock started after the criminal background check was back from the fbi. Now, the background check is online and instant and NICS is instant. Will njsp be completing applications in 30 days?

Asked and answered. Where's my donuts?

 

also, if they could define "unloaded" since there's constantly discussions going on if we can transport loaded mags or not. and finally.....i truly hope this entire thing is going to be recorded......

A loaded magazine by itself is not illegal. If the firearm for which it is designed is present, we believe that it will then be looked at as being a loaded firearm. That will be up to the courts to decide.

 

Why do those applications processed by the NJSP barracks take so much longer than those processed by municipal entities?

 

Why do all PD's feel that it is OK, when allocating resources, to ignore the processing of firearms applications?

 

Anything else I can think of is more a question for for the legislative or judicial branch.

Workload and manpower. Someone get me a donut. "OK" is your opinion. We have found that most PDs are professional and treat the application process with respect, and do their due diligence in completing them. 

 

... The original ruling (Adler v. Litvak) that allowed the police to ignore the 30 day statutory limitation was based on the FBI's time to process the fingerprint check. That ruling was made prior to the implementation of AFIS. It now takes seconds to search the federal fingerprint database, rather than the days, weeks or months it used to take the FBI to do a physical search. A) Why haven't we seen a corresponding reduction in the time of processing? B) What needs to be done to have the judiciary revisit a decision that was based on, now, obsolete criteria? ...

Manpower and workload. That would be up to the individual to pursue any action as was prior.

 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

Yes, we plan to record the entire conference.

awesome! thanks man!   don't warn them though......not necessary in nj.........

[Zeke 5,504]

Ask them if an air soft gun is the same as a BB gun

[1LtCAP 4,264]

They me guess at the answers you will most likely get: (part 1)

 

The NJSP are trained to make a decision on the totality of the circumstances on a case by case basis.

 

Reasonable will be left up to the courts to decide. When dealing with firearms, the gunowner is at their own peril. (Or something like that)

 

If it suppresses a flash, it is a flash suppressor. The NJSP Firearms Ballistic Unit is trained to do the testing.

 

No comment.

 

If a firearm is labeled as accepting 22 shorts in addition to 22 long rifle rounds, the capacity will be determined based on the shorter cartridge.

 

When we are asked to investigate the delays, we contact the PD on every request, and inquire about the delay. Manpower and workloads are the reason for the delays. <crickets>

problem with that is that our muzzle brakes pretty much suppress the flash too.

[louu 399]

Yes, we plan to record the entire conference.

That's awesome will it be on YouTube or anything like that? 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

i got another question, along these lines.........since we're all pretty certain that we're gonna get the nj safe act in 017.......what can be done to try to head that shit off?

[CMJeepster 2,778]

i got another question, along these lines.........since we're all pretty certain that we're gonna get the nj safe act in 017.......what can be done to try to head that shit off?

http://www.realtor.com/

[Zeke 5,504]

i got another question, along these lines.........since we're all pretty certain that we're gonna get the nj safe act in 017.......what can be done to try to head that shit off?

work with your legislators and also vote?

Or move.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

THAT'S the hard part. they don't seem to feel the need to really listen to us. i do vote. even though i honestly feel like i'm wasting my time, i do it.

 

not funny jppestr! lolol

 

 i'd prefer to not have to egress.