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The NJGF culture is quite different from other gun forums and FB. Because of the constant threats to our rights, we are more active in discussing legal and compliance based subjects than almost anything else. This comparison is made on a sample of five gun related forums I am, or was, active on. As a result of the focus here, we are generally more informed. This can be attributed to the valuable contributions from LGS owners, LE, lawyers and folks from rights groups who are active here on a continuous basis. Without their input, we'd be lost at sea. Nappen has achieved a sort of minor celebrity status, and as such, has followers. His FB page will naturally attract his "believers", in addition to a cadre of yes men to help prop him up. Nappen's FB page exists for one thing only, to promote his business, whereas NJGF exists for the broader interests of NJ gun owners. I can't say Nappen has done no good for NJ gun owners, but the good he has done has been over inflated and his brand is overvalued. One can only guess why he has gone full retard on the mag ban, but those who are familiar with his way of doing things will have their suspicions. Nappen is not letting this crisis go to waste. He will surely profit from it, but really, there is nothing wrong with that. Fortunately, we here are ahead of the curve and not likely to fall for a money making scheme. We know better because we have better resources. On his FB page, Nappen controls the narrative and crushes dissent. He keeps his message on track and sells a lot of stuff. Many people do not want to work things out for themselves, they just want to be told what to do. Life is complicated, life in NJ is even more complicated, and Nappen is more than happy to profiteer off of people who just want to keep things simple. On NJGF, our diverse family of members regularly throw down in a most New Jersey fashion. All opinions are heard, discussed, agreed upon, mocked, and so on. It's the wackiest kind of crowd sourcing, but it works. While it's true things here can get ugly sometimes, the outcome is beautiful. If you boil it down. NJGF members are mostly independent thinkers, and those who aren't are "gently" encouraged to become independent thinkers. We work out things for ourselves. Nappen's followers are sheep who don't want to think for themselves, they just want to be told what to do.

If I remember correctly, Nappen is Jewish (not saying it is an excuse for his comment). I was going to touch on it earlier, but to me, it is like he is grandstanding a terrible part of history for his own personal gain. If the “all powerful/wise” Nappen says it is Kristallnacht, maybe we should buy his $60 book/go to his seminar? Kind of sad, if you ask me. I wouldn’t expect being Christian (myself) as a reason to feel differently for his BS, but think most get disgusted that another person actually said that. That was an early part of a period of history that millions of people were killed because of their religion. Let’s actually think before we post something like that. I’ve made a connection to anti-gun legislation to the Nazi use of gun control to better carry out the Holocaust... but it isn’t the same as his dumb post. I’m against gun control, not because I think Murphy is Hitler and Grewal is Himmler... but because I view them as the Weimar Republic before their rise to power. All of the registration and the foundation of German gun control was established prior to Hitler coming to power... by people wanting to make Germany a “safer place.” When the Nazis came in, they had the addresses of who registered their firearms... and if you fit into their group of people they didn’t want to own firearms, you turned them in or were arrested/killed. Gun control is an issue most of us have with the government now... because we had 15 rounders for years, then made felons 180 days after the stroke of a pen. But it is an issue for everyone 20 years down the line, when this utopia gets a “Hitler” in power, and nobody is able to stop him. Murphy is just laying down the carpet for someone like that... and it is the idea why the Second Amendment was even thought of in the first place.

HOT OFF THE PRESS! BREAKING NEWS SHARED WITH THIS COMMUNITY! CNJFO PUTS IT'S MEMBERS' $ WHERE IT COUNTS THE MOST! HELP US WRITE A 10 GRAND DONATION CHECK TO LAWSUITS! by Black Wire Media Tuesday Dec. 11, 2018 www.cnjfo.com/join-us STAND & DELIVER! As the 11+ round Mag Ban becomes even more burdensome to NJ gun owners, there is still some light at the end of a deep, dark tunnel. That light is known as the "Cheeseman-Jillard" Lawsuits formulated by Historian Jay Factor. The Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners announced today that their Executive Board did unanimously approve the expenditure of FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS to be allocated to a special MATCHING FUNDS CAMPAIGN for "Cheeseman-Jillard"! Every dollar that gets donated, up to $5K, will be matched if you go to: www.cnjfo.com/Donate & select "Cheeseman-Jillard" after clicking on "Donation Type"! CNJFO Published by David Rosenthal · 1 hr CNJFO ANNOUNCES $5K MATCHING FUNDS CAMPAIGN! CHEESEMAN-JILLARD LAWSUITS GO TO NJ SUPREMES! by Black Wire Media Tuesday Dec. 11, 2018 www.cnjfo.com/join-us In an unprecedented move by New Jersey's busiest 2nd Amendment all-volunteer organization, the Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners today proudly announces they are sponsoring a Matching Funds Campaign for the legal battle known as the "Cheeseman-Jillard Law Suits" that were just filed with NJ State Supreme Court! CNJFO has promised to MATCH up to $5,000 on a DOLLAR-FOR-DOLLAR basis if you make your TAX DEDUCTIBLE donation through our official Donation Page's "Cheeseman-Jillard drop-down" by clicking the box marked "Donation Type". DOUBLE YOUR DOLLARS! Go to www.cnjfo.com/Donate & click on "Donation Type" to access our "Cheeseman-Jillard drop-down". ON TO VICTORY!

Not commenting on enforcement strategies is something I would expect any law enforcement agency to do. As I've said in other threads I think it will be enforced like the 15 Rd magazine law has been enforced for almost 30 years.

Let’s be realistic about the enforcement of this going door to door.. They would need probable cause for search warrant, approved by the prosecutors office, then signed by a judge.. Then law enforcement has to execute that search warrant.. Executing a search warrant involves multiple officers (safety factor).. Then to search someone’s home can take hours when looking for items.. The time and cost of it would be unimaginable..

Well, for one, you sell us guns at very reasonable prices. Secondly, you give us the ability to teach basic grammar by pointing out the correct usage of "your" vs "you're."

yes its fear mongering .. and yes with his tactics Nappen seems like a douche. And if he has truly been fighting these archaic NJ gun laws for 30 years and this is where we are at today .. he sucks at his job.

Yet, you lowered yourself into the sewer to write a post about how superior you are. Interesting.

Well, over the past month, I gathered up all of my 15 round magazines and took them down to our place in North Carolina. I also ordered and have received a number of 10-round magazines for my different hand guns that need them and it turned out to be a rather expensive decision. While I agree with those who say that the chances of any LEO's searching your home for these now illegal gun magazines, either intentionally or due to some other reason, is highly unlikely, I am not comfortable breaking this stupid new law. What specifically concerns me more is that when I am traveling from my home, to and from a gun range with my guns and magazines, if by chance I am involved in some form of automobile accident, then it is conceivable that compliance with this silly new law could become an issue. So I decided not to take any chances and bit the bullet, (sorry, I could not resist.....), and banished my 15 rounders and purchased a bunch of legally compliant 10 rounders for my various handguns. I do think that in the coming years many if not most of NJ's ridiculous gun laws will ultimately be ruled unconstitutional and will be overturned. But until that day arrives and as long as we are residents of NJ, I will abide by the law. While the chances of being caught are extremely slim, if you are caught, then you are screwed. Why take that chance...? AVB-AMG

The lazy ass girl scouts won't even go door to door to sell their cookies anymore... the cops certainly are not going to do it either

I remember when they went door to door collecting all those Marlin M99's/M60's and Winchester 190's/290's.

This is a sensationalist headline meant for nothing more than page views and fear mongering. They are basing it on one quote out of a previous comment, which we discussed in another thread. There is NOTHING there that says they are planning on going door to door. Of course, the NJSP cannot say they are not going to do something as it is not their call.

Factory mags (example Hexmag 10 or 15rd) do not have to be 'permanent" from the factory. Only when you are modifying a mag to make it NJ compliant (Example: Taking a factory 15rd mags and blocking it to 10rds) - them the "modification is supposed to be permanent. Factory mags are not required to be sealed, or modified unless they are being converted to NJ compliant..........

@Maksim I generally agree with your statement with one exception. I don't think the number of people interested in shooting is declining. If anything it's increasing. I think gun games had a lot to do with this. There really weren't any until the middle 70s. Then came along IPSC, bowling pins and metallic silhouette. Guns weren't just for cops, hunters, and targetshooters any more. The growth of number of FFLs and commercial ranges just bear out this growth of shooting in NJ. Someone has to be keeping them in business.

It should piss off most people who can think logically That was NOT a positive comment.

Right or wrong everyone has the right to an opinion, particularly when it comes time to firearms. Calling someone a dumbass for their take on laws or anything firearms related only discourages people from asking questions, merely because they are afraid of someone calling them "stupid" or whatnot for what may be common knowledge for older gun owners. The main goal and why I started the community 10 years ago was to create a community of gun owners and a safe place for new, less experienced, or more conservative, older gun owners. For those that really do want to show their displeasure, there are places here to do so. We don't over-moderate or silence folks here, we only ask to behave like decent human beings.

A pistol grip is whatever they want to define a pistol grip.

If anyone who knows anything about me ever wonders why I no longer post in this sewer of imbecilic incivility, look no further than this post. Next time I know something (like Pennsylvania about to make your N.H. and Utah nonresident permits worthless), or think of something that might help, I'll be sure to keep it to myself.

You lied. Don't you know 15 round mags are capable of mass shootings, while 10 rounders are completely harmless? 15 rounders are hazardous to many people's health. Go ask Murphy, he'll tell you!

They can borrow my shotgun. It's great for trap, right @Krdshrk?

He won’t have a reason, but I suppose he could try. You tell me... I am quite disheartened with some of the fear mongering going on right now and it’s at a full court press. From threats of mass raids on those who own firearms capable of accepting “large capacity magazines,” to Murphy must conduct raids for fear of political retribution, to I’m facing 115 years in jail and a million in fines, to waking up today to an article posted speaking of searches of homes without probable cause (during a search for terrorist bombers), for reasons I’m not sure of, a few in the community are doing, in my opinion, a disservice to the 2a community. I’m not seeking to take away what they have done over time and for what they have done, I and all of us should be grateful for that. As we stand here, on the eve of many of our friends turning into criminals for doing nothing more than inaction, and we stand here having had our constitutional rights limited, illegally and against our will, I thought I’d offer another perspective. A perspective on seeking to help some of us figure it out, and not scare some of us into hiding or moving out of state and reducing the size of the community here to support the second amendment. Full disclosure, I can’t call this legal advice as I don’t know all of your specifics, but I can offer some perspective and try and quell some of the fear that has been heightened over the last few days. That’s not to say there should be no fear, the government has just infringed on our constitutional rights, our governor is hostile to our cause, but the onslaught currently occurring, is making people think tomorrow is the day my local PD raids my home. About me: I’m a proud supporter of the second amendment, a criminal defense attorney, and a former Assistant Middlesex County Prosecutor who ran the county gang, gun, and drugs task force. At my time there, lawful gun owners were not the target of our investigations, that’s not to say some lawful gun owners didn’t do other nutty or illegal stuff, but we didn’t target them for being gun owners, they were targeted for drug dealing, illegal gun running, assault, etc. Those people we in no way assets to the second amendment cause. We, those of us on these discussion groups and forums, are among the most educated gun owners in the state. There are hundreds of thousands of gun owners in the state, but these Facebook groups and forums have 2,000 or 5,000 people participating in the discussion. Quite honestly, I’d expect Joe Schmo gun owner, who got a pistol after watching the expendables because it looks cool, and really has no idea about the mag ban or his second amendment rights, to run afoul of the law before any of us do. That said, I hope, that any person who unknowingly or mistakenly brings a “large capacity magazine” to a range or gun club, is told to take it home or throw it out, and not have the police called on them. I can’t imagine any range that did that would be in business long anyways. I have a hard time with someone, especially someone knowledgeable, suggesting that the simple act of owning a gun that can accept large capacity magazines, is grounds for large scale raids. That IS fear mongering. Raids require search warrants. Search warrants require probable cause. Probable cause has to be determined by a judge, yes a N.J. judge, but a judge. It’s not some willy nilly standard. There have to be proofs of the illegality, describe the items they are seeking, and enough facts, specific facts, to overbear your fourth amendment rights. I have participated in a large amount of search warrants, from the drafting of the affidavit to appearing with the officer in front of a judge, defending search warrants on motions to suppress, and challenging searches based on the fourth amendment. I would not approve an officer seeing a judge, nor would I ever expect a judge to approve a search warrant based on the following: “John Doe is a resident of New Jersey. In 2009, he purchased a Beretta 92fs, a 9 millimeter pistol. That firearm is capable of accepting a magazine that contains more than 10 rounds. Based upon the previous, we believe that we have probable cause to believe that he has a large capacity magazine.” Even in N.J., that isn’t going to fly. It’s probable cause to believe, not a hunch. Without more that’s simply a hunch. That isn’t to say that won’t be part of an application for a search warrant, but there must be more. Someone witnessing your large capacity magazine, posting photos of your large capacity magazines to social media, or possibly bragging about keeping them or using them could certainly further their quest to search a home. What i find sad, is with specific knowledge of what is required for a search warrant, people are still stoking the fires of fear regarding mass raids. I don’t think anyone is actually facing 115 years in jail or a million in fines for their magazines. The N.J. sentencing laws would never allow that type of sentence, not would logic allow for it. The law prohibits the possession of magazines over 10 rounds just like it prohibits possessing hollow points outside of the limited exceptions. Have you ever heard, or do you think even this sad state would allow for punishment per bullet, a 50 round box allowing for a max sentence of 75 years or a super dangerous box of 525 .22’s allowing for a max sentence of 787 years in jail. Similarly, simple possession of 50 large capacity mags will not get you 75 years. Also, with very limited exception, fines other than mandatory ones are not doled out. I’d say I’ve seen 10 cases have discretionary fines in my career of thousands of cases in superior court, and never the maximum. That said, with no record and being a lawful gun owner, possession is a fourth degree crime, which means there is a presumption of non incarceration. Having no record, a person is more likely to have pretrial intervention or probation. I’m in no way saying I agree that it should be illegal, but likely punishment potential needs to be kept in perspective. A quick note on exigency and the article posted on the Boston bombing, though oddly making no mention of the bombing or the search being for the bombers. First, they asked for consent. It’s not easy to say no, especially to highly armed officers in tactical gear, but it’s your right. Does anyone think when police are searching for a similarly situated dirtbag, who just murdered several people including a police officer, and maimed hundreds of others, their focus is on the non-complaint magazine in someone’s sock drawer? The law may allow for the search, but if it does, they have more on their mind than your 15 round Glock mag. It might be more instructive instead of saying prepare for mass raids, to inform people, many who do not posses our knowledge of the law, with their rights. If the police show up and ask to see your weapons or gun safe, you are free to say no. Be careful, they are very slick and will say anything to get into your home if that is their mission. They can’t arrest you for not consenting. If they ask you if you have magazines that are non-compliant, you are free to remain silent. Don’t lie, just be silent and say I don’t wish to speak with you. It is easier said than done as police are instructed on how to manipulate targets to get them to allow searches, waive miranda, etc. If they threaten that they will get a search warrant if you don’t consent, tell them ok. It’s an absolute they will get in if you consent. It’s not absolute that they will be granted a search warrant, and if they do, you can challenge it later in court. If people are worried about parts of the law, they should speak directly with a lawyer about their particular situation. That’s my 2 cents, feel free to disregard, I won’t force anyone to do or believe anything, I just want you to know their are other informed opinions out there that aren’t total doom and gloom.

The New Jersey State Police indicate they may conduct body cavity searches for hidden LCP magazine components in connection with house-to-house enforcement of the state’s “high capacity” magazine ban. De Tush News contacted New Jersey State Police on Monday to ask how they planned to enforce the newly enacted ban. The basis for the question about house-to-house checks is that Americans always fear Second Amendment prohibitions will lead to knocks on their doors. The NJ State Police responded: “While we do not discuss enforcement strategies, body cavity searches in connection with house-to-house enforcement would not be out of the question.” “ It is possible that LCP components could be secreted in body cavities with other goodies and our officers will be equipped with enemas accordingly.”

Semi-autos are applicable to the “assault weapon” legislation. All semi-auto shotguns, and then semi-auto pistols and rifles with a detachable magazine, must follow that legislation. Pumps are good to go with whatever “evil feature” you want. Just like you could put a flash hider, folding stock, and pistol grip all on a bolt action... and still be good.

Can it happen in NJ? Any LEO with balls? FULL STORY https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/sanctuary-city-for-gun-rights-washington-state-city-mulls-law-to-protect-2nd-amendment.amp Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk

Actually they said they don’t comment on what they do, which is quite different from not ruling it out.

Another $50 in. Everyone should contribute to this.

Just sent you 50 bucks Rosie. Hope it can do some good. Thanks for all you do. Bob

How many of those FPID holders have left NJ or have died, and they don't know?

Everything is all about "acceptable levels of risk." Just don't run over a kitten or beat up a hooker on the way to the range!

Shut up, jerk.

Facebook he controls the narrative. Here he does not. There may have been more dissent on his post but he could simply delete it. Nappen, Bach, and every FFL in leadership roles of 2A organizations need to go. What is good for them is bad for us. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I don't disagree. I was only half-joking. There's a psychology to different audiences... Facebook is a sharing place where you collect friends and are generally not anonymous... a Forum is anonymous and people can be more blunt and freewheeling. Oops! As I'm typing, I see Lakota above is saying the same thing! Great minds thinking alike, LOL. Seriously though... different communications vehicle = different results. Anonymity can be a negative, but it also has its plusses.

This is correct also can't be ticketed for activating or deactivating a function which includes answering it as long as it is immediately put into hands free mode. This was decided by NJ Appeals Court. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Let's be adults and keep personal attacks from public sections. =) Keep it off at least in the 1st Amendment Lounge. =) Thanks.

Not by anyone here. Lots of duck and cover cats runnin around these parts.

nobody is your friend but you. every single person has a motivation other then your interests, they may align with yours for mutual benefit, but no one does anything without advancing their own goals. for nappen its $. for anjrpc, nra etc, its $ EDIT: man ive kept my head down the last few days, and im normally not online as much on the weekends. went to nappens page after posting here. I shouldn't have done that.

We need a +100 button here. Here you go folks, an opinion from someone knowledgeable and who has been on both sides of the aisle.

At least you live in NJ, whereas our beloved Nappen and Bach live in New Hampshire.

Yes I do. I handle most if not all of my firms firearm cases. Feel free to keep me in your phone but let’s hope you never, ever, need to call.

Definitely fear mongering. And definitely a bunch of pussies running around. Nut the fuck up or get rid of all your guns now. It's NJ... you own firearms at your peril.

Nappen is useless to the law abiding citizen. He would not like any gun laws to be laxed . The stricter the law the more money he makes. I would not buy any of his books or read his advise. A few years back I applied for a CCW in Jersey. The State Police approved me but judge Pereksta denied my case and wanted exact dates when "immediate need"occured. I asked Nappen if he can represent me and he told me his fees start at 8K What a crook. He is not your friend but pretends to be. I understand he needs to make a living but not by exorbitant fees. Nobody is going to ask you about your old mag. Nobody is going to call you.

Reminded me of Kennesaw GA where every head of the household is required to maintain a firearm with ammunition. Miss the good ol' South.

They will enforce it the same way they did the 15 round limit..

This is probably the best quote of the whole thread. Add in video games to the list of "gamers" as well.

This happens to me a lot when I am in Europe - especially Germany.

Narrow crown staplers tend to be pretty accurate.... but they lack the grains

I am responding to the lawyer's comments only as a (possible) public service to my friends here. I have no interest in debating this or responding to anything that follows. NY gun owners allegedly possessed around 1 million banned rifles when the "SAFE" Act passed. I read that fewer than 50,000, five percent, complied with the assault rifle ban. I've also not heard of any door-to-door raids to seize the banned rifles or prosecute their owners. If history is our guide then there is zero chance that my legal status as of 12:01 am tomorrow morning will be of any consequence. I say "history" as if everything we read, even from our side, is true. It isn't. That doesn't mean that the individual now occupying the state's highest office will not think of some creative way to enforce his new fake law, perhaps by making examples of a few individuals. The IRS does this every year around the beginning of April. Ask Willie Nelson, Leona Helmsley, and Martha Stewart (who was not even convicted of tax evasion but of lying to someone whose entire existence is based on lies). I define risk as the product of the likelihood of something happening and the worst consequences thereof. I'm reasonably sure someone who looks an awful lot like a gopher on an extended bender, surrounded by storm troopers, will not be visiting me any time soon. I'm not so sure, however, that a governmental apparatus that knows the make and model of every gun I own (and probably every round of ammo I've ever purchased) will not try its darndest to make life miserable for me. Three to ten years in jail for me is a non-starter. At my age, and in my current mood, I will not go, because a conviction, one way or another, is the end for me of everything I value on this earth. I do not want to be one of the lucky bastards set up as an example. Think about this, your life, your family, before you post anything stupid in this forum or make any decisions about yourself and guns.

this is more my speed. Could still be costly though.