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If no Authority gets a COE copy, and there is no requirement to keep a copy, why drive out of state? In fact, why even do a COE? Trade gun and cash and STFU.

Praise Jesus

that is what's always been taught at classes i've taken

Precisely. I taught shooting for the largest target available. If the bad guy is behind cover but not using it properly and you have a foot, knee, elbow, or gluetus maximus sticking out, shoot that. Sure to get their attention. The article says she shot him in the leg. It also says she said, "I'm not here to kill anyone". No where does it say she shot him in the leg because she didn't want to kill him. Did I miss that?

Let me add a wrinkle. What does center mass mean? I would ABSOLUTELY defer to High Exposure's position on the topic as I am well aware of his background and cadre of trainers he has studied under. But I think a case could absolutely be made for a leg shot in the right circumstances. If the BG needs shooting and the leg is the only available, Im shooting for center mass of the target presented! As a side note I am convinced that a few of you cant brake set from your suppositions and intake what is being said in plain english.....

I think you also are under estimating how many gun owners there are. Obama was the best gun salesperson in recent history! I realize gun owners generally own multiple firearms and are responsible for some of those numbers. But a LOT of first time purchasers are in there as well. I think the MSM under estimates the number of firearm owners as well. When they do their polling how many people who own firearms are responding that they don't own firearms? Yes, we should do more to increase our numbers but I don't think It's as dire as you think. Just because they are passing or trying to pass anti laws doesn't mean people are or will comply. There are LOTS of laws people ignore. Recreational drug use, speeding, allowing illegal immigration, hiring illegals, prostitution, etc,.etc.

I am hoping the Ruger PC carbine gets some new magazine inserts (Beretta 92 and Sig 320?) and perhaps a caliber conversion. And some aftermarket support, especially from MagPul w/ a backpacker style stock. And the retro Mossberg 500 is interesting.

Absolutely Shane. If you can positively ID it belongs to the bad guy and you can articulate that deadly force is still appropriate - find the biggest piece of meat that you can see, center your sights, and press the trigger. This may not kill your target, but it may stop their violent actions. At the very least, have demonstrated your willingness to fight back - that alone stops many attackers. And a hit to any part of an attacker's body will certainly not improve his situation. You could reduce ability and capability by getting a peripheral hit that restricts or at least reduces movement. If the bad guy is stuck in place, you can maneuver to a superior position to finish the fight. If he loses ability because he can only use one arm to shoot, you have an absolute advantage. Griz, I couldn’t find that correlation either. Lots of supposition along with some pretty wild and unrealistic expectations of what a bullet can do and what the laws of self defense demands. This woman did very well. She did and said the right things to prepare herself and to positively influence her position before, during, and after the fight.

Well personally I'm waiting for the big one to come sooner rather than later. Although Ginsberg being gone would be the perfect world, I'd like to get this over. Like ripping a band-aid. This nickle and dime stuff is getting tired. I want enough years left in my life to enjoy the freedoms.

Here is the sad thing with the above latina, she makes more than almost all of us here and has no idea what she is doing or what she is supporting. Ignorance is bliss

That’s called lethal force. It has higher probability of lethality vs less than lethal force. Regardless, this thread has become both enlightening and full retard. Security guard obviously has some training as she’s prepared to render aid, and renders aid. Her hit was his leg. Training says center mass, but we all mis, or under duress can shank a boolit. And she wanted to stop the perp and not kill him. Her words And she is hot. Keyboard marksman is an accurate term for what has transpired here. And for those that feel it’s their obligation to kill, you are on a public facing forum, and your gladiator syndrome might actually bite you in the ass someday. God forbid

It's more fun to make them the old fashioned way and cheaper too. Jus sayen

If you think it’s wordgames, you aren’t paying attention. It points to directly to intent and most significantly your mindset prior to the act. These two things are crucial in a trial. These are two things that can separate a self defense shooting from premeditated malicious intent or reckless action and the difference between stop and kill can make your deadly force response a reasonably necessary act and therefore justifiable. These are two things that can either mitigate or aggravate the legality of your actions. This simple but crucial distinction between a desire to stop the actions of an attacker vs the desire to kill him is what the entire “A good guy with gun is what stops bad guys with guns” movement - something I think every law abiding gun owner agrees with - is predicated on. It is what separates the wolves of this world from the sheepdogs.

You and another poster are assuming that. It's not clear from the article. Her comment about "I didn't want to kill him" could have just as easily been referring to the fact that she rendered aid while he was bleeding out. There is NO clear statement that she purposefully shot him in his thigh. Her shot may have simply landed low. We just don't know. And... think of how fast that situation likely unfolded... bullets are flying, adrenaline is pumping, she's taking cover, she gets off a couple of shots that put the guy down... we're really going to critique this to death? Can't we just celebrate the fact that an armed citizen stopped a potential mass shooter? Come'on guys... must we eat our own all the time?

Says the guy that just mentioned a Glock in 7.62mm Tokarev... If you guys go near Black Aces Tactical... see if there is any info on their new autoloader firearms. Heard they are putting one out under $500.

New Colt. 1911C is what I believe they're calling it. Not really new, just new going back to old school marking.

Hope they pass it and amend it to include Life as a punishment

Mossberg Pistol - just kinda interested.

"I know he messed up, but you gotta hand it to Alshon. Literally, you have to. He'll drop it." - comment I stole from Reddit

Yes. This is the proper mindset. Prepare for it, but recognize that the death of the perp is an unintended consequence, not the goal.

Well stated. Thanks for the insight! Now let's blow some minds together, lol: Take a breath, then ponder the thought that a NJ resident can own Class 3 weapons: 1. If bought while residing in a "Free State", then transferred to a Trust & stored in PA. 2. Your input please: Rosey

Wayne lapierre to remove his mask and reveil himself to be the diane fenstein wanna be lizard man all the while yelling "cobra-la-la-la-la"

I have a meeting with the Ruger executive team for something else but I will make sure to mention it. But... I would not be surprised if they are already reading this topic.

Remington TAC-13... see if they are doing a braced version. To add to the Ruger... yell at them to make a PC in .45.

;;;

Exactly.

It works out fine, per ATF... The FFL-03 allows me to purchase eligible firearms out of state. If I got it years before, would have been the exact same as now (wish I did, would have been a lot easier). No issue... judging firearms are legal in the state I live in. NJ cannot override Federal law on the other side of the Delaware River... and I would love to see them try and argue that. An M1 Carbine is C&R, but it is also an “assault weapon” in NJ law. Not legal for me to go and buy one in PA, as my license is registered to my home in NJ (also, per ATF). If I get audited, that is going to be an issue. But when I applied for my FFL-03, following state law was a very clearly mentioned on the application as a requirement for a collector, and was right along with not engaging in a business. Buying a pistol legally outside of NJ is no issue. Anyone who lived outside of NJ couldn’t bring their legally purchased handguns into NJ when they moved (judging they comply with NJ laws)? Legally, you can buy a blackpowder revolver out of state... don’t need to get a pistol permit on the way back, but you do have to follow NJ transportation laws. What about building your own firearm (80% lowers)? You build one in PA (legal), judging everything else with the build is covered by NJ law... what are they going to charge you with? Manufacturing of a firearm in NJ... when you didn’t do it within NJ. That last one might be harder to defend/prove... but a receipt would prove the blackpowder revolver was legally acquired. Never heard of anyone being jammed up for an “unregistered” handgun that they bought when they lived out of state... especially considering the NJSP puts out a form to register, stating clearly in the title, “VOLUNTARY Form of Firearms Registration.” https://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/sp-650.pdf In regards to being a test case, of what? I have modern pistols on my list of guns I’m going to purchase... and all have a “when out of NJ” next to them. My FFL-03 doesn’t allow me to purchase those, so I will wait until I can legally do it in Maine (not wanting to pay the fees is part... other part is I’m not getting compliant magazines, that won’t have a use by end of August, which is when I’ll be up there). If I go to the Oaks gun show, and see a Colt or S&W M1917, a Makarov (East German or Russian are C&R), a CZ-52, or an older J-frame/Colt Cobra... at a decent price... I’ll buy it. I’ll post it up on here, and people can link the NJSP to it, if they want. They can have the ATF inspect my book/firearms, as everything is done legally. None of those guns break NJ law, and the process of an FFL-03 purchasing them out of state is Federally legal, as well. If I was buying handguns, and selling them to NJ residents without pistol permits/NICS (if I sold to another FFL-03, would still need to fill out a pistol permit), then yes... that is a hazardous situation that would likely wind me up in the clinker. But considering the pistol permits state that they are only for use within NJ (more for non-FFLs/unlicensed persons from NJ trying to purchase a handgun at a PA FFL, which is illegal Federally), those who can legally purchase outside of NJ don’t need to use them. Is that a large number of people? Not at all... but I will use it to build up my collection in the limited time I’m still here.

it is word games in a way. and those word games will keep you from spending a long time at the greybar motel if you had to use said force. ya digit man?

My god

This is very, very true. The "molding" has to happen between the ages of 2 to 7, if a kid doesn't have a solid footing on what's right and wrong, along with stable moral values, principals and responsibilities at that age, they're subject to outside "molding". This is why I referenced electronic babysitting above. Kids today are NOT getting the teaching at home they need, which leaves them like a sailboat without a sail, open to any breeze that comes along. The socialist school systems are winning, unfortunately...

Crap, how did I leave them out??? I train with them frequently, and have taken all of their classes multiple times. They are great folks, and located not far from where I live, so I'm constantly taking refresher classes with them.

Ahhh, you should have let me know, I would have loaned you my special tool, I don't need it anymore. It works great for "Attitude" adjustments.

I get that, but if you do your part in regards to shot placement then the perp isn't going to make it. I know, 90% of handgun wounds are not fatal and yadda yadda yadda, but let's be serious. A 124 grain bullet traveling at 1200 feet per second hitting said perp in the head and/or chest is probably gonna give said perp a dirt nap.

I think the point others are trying to make is that “as needed” is defined as when the threat is stopped. That may or may not be the same as when the threat is killed. And if the threat is stopped you won’t purposefully keep pulling the trigger to kill

My CG training was not on rules of engagement but how to keep the ship afloat at any cost. If I am carrying a gun, regardless of location since it doesn't matter to me, I will pull the trigger as much as needed. Whether the perp dies or not is inconsequential because he or she or they made that decision to play with fire.

That only applies to dealers

funny how the street dealers in the inner cities dont have that problem. WAIT, criminals dont follw the rules.

What's the sense? I raised 2 children around guns and shooting and sent them off to college. They came back left wing antis! You really have no control over their eventual political leanings.

This is awesome... have to do this. Living in America now where we can have real fireworks. lol. This will be great.

I never rule out ANY ideas (LOL)… but I admit I'm a bit squeamish at the thought of adopting children, even in part, for a "political agenda". It should be done purely as a selfless act of love IMO. Besides, I think you can accomplish the same goal you're seeking by simply exposing people (even adults) who are already at your elbow... neighbors, co-workers, friends... to your activities/point of view. How about simply being friendly and inviting them to the range? Or you can contribute dollars or volunteer hours to organizations that effectively bring new people into the shooting sports. I also think it's helpful if MORE people in our community write letters to the editor and/or call politicians offices on a regular basis to express their point of view, etc. (making ourselves MORE visible and not so easily ignored). Those steps also require far less commitment and LESS COST than adopting another human and raising them to adulthood! I mean, what's the cost of college tuition these days?

You know, I can actually believe AOC would say that!

@Ray Ray being an alcoholic is also a disqualifier. I see no problem with him being denied. I think the benefits of medical marijuana are overplayed and exaggerated. Arthritis is one of the ailments marijuana is claimed to help for example. I can name maybe a dozen drugs used to treat arthritis and I'm sure there are many more. None of them work and marijuana does? I didn't just fall off a cabbage truck. I think "Gun Owners for Legal Marijuana" doesn't help our cause. It can only be used against us.

Shocker...

I am an expert and I do understand the quickness with which violence occurs and the urgency of deploying a firearm in a DPF confrontation. I carry a gun every day and teach others to do the same . A large part of what I teach my people are the the intricacies of the proper use of force and the mindset to apply it correctly to whatever scenario you find yourself in. Additionally - here is the important part - I teach them how to continually evaluate the effectiveness of the force you used to make sure it stays reasonable and appropriate to the task at hand. Read what I said. I never said you should shoot to hurt. Read what I said - “Shoot to stop”. “I attempted to stop him” is exactly what works in court. This is what defenders do. “I attempted to kill him” also works in court, if you want to be found guilty. This is what murderers do. Our goal is never to kill anyone. It is to stop the immediate or imminent violent actions of a perpetrator. Full stop. Period. The end. Death may be the only way to stop them. Death may follow a short time after you stop them. But, death is not the intended end state. It is merely a byproduct of your options. The direct actions of another that have risen to the level where they may kill or seriously injure me, or someone in my care in the immediate future is what permits me to use deadly force in defense of myself or others. Keep in mind, there is more than one kind of stop - primarily we talk about two: • Psychological stops • Physiological stops. Physiological stops are further broken down into: • Timers - you injured them but they are still alive. They may die in 30 seconds or they may live another 20 years • Switches - this is a CNS got where they literally turn off. Some nerve and tendon hits that instantly remove the ability to move a body part can also be switches. Scenario - I observe someone committing an act that legally, morally, and ethically permits me to use deadly force to stop them. I draw my pistol and fire one shot. Outcome 1: I miss, but it’s enough to make the perp stop what they are doing and follow my commands to the point I can control them until police/backup arrive. The perp is no longer putting anyone in immediate or imminent danger. Can I continue to shoot them until they are dead? Outcome 2: This time my shot hits them the the heart and severs the spine. The perp is instantly killed and slumps to the ground. This is a physiological stop with a switch. I just turned the guy off. While it is a known possible and acceptable outcome of my intervention, it is not the goal of my use of force. Outcome 3: This time my shot hits him in the belly and the victim is able to scramble away. The perp doesn’t die immediately -This is a physiological stop of the timer variety. Again, my intervention was enough to make him stop his violent actions to where the target of his attack is now safe. Can I keep shooting simply because the perp is still alive? Of course not - that would be murder. Now, if he stops obeying my commands and his actions return to the the level of permitting deadly force, then yes, I am permitted to intervene again. Yes, there are times where you are technically shooting to kill. For example a hostage situation where you are going for the headshot. The mindset however is not to take a kill shot. It is a calculated physiological stop (switch) designed to reduce the risk to another. Not a conscious decision to just kill someone out of hand.

doubtful she shot to wound.......was probably just where that shot landed....

colt gold cup up for sale at Howell Gun Works. See their page on FB

Springfield Armory GI