NJ LAWMAKERS ANNOUNCE PLANS TO DESTROY RIGHT TO CARRY

[almach5 2]

We are in the WRONG state.  For example - this is the requirements for North Carolina.  Seems more than reasonable:

"In order to qualify to carry a hand gun concealed in North Carolina, you must hit a silhouette target from distances of 3, 5, and 7 yards (ten rounds each)." 

 

No firing from the knees, no 25 yards, no weak hand, nothing.  What am I missing here???

[Tunaman 549]

32 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

what you keep describing is like taking an enema that don't work...ya just keep shovin' it in until sometin' happens...good or bad....omo.

You speak like a 12 year old.  Who asked you anyway?

[xXxplosive 824]

26 minutes ago, almach5 said:

We are in the WRONG state.  For example - this is the requirements for North Carolina.  Seems more than reasonable:

"In order to qualify to carry a hand gun concealed in North Carolina, you must hit a silhouette target from distances of 3, 5, and 7 yards (ten rounds each)." 

 

No firing from the knees, no 25 yards, no weak hand, nothing.  What am I missing here???

No...your in the wrong state of mind....no mandatory training what so ever..more than half the country, 27 states say so..omo.

10 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

You speak like a 12 year old.  Who asked you anyway?

and you keep repeating the same re-qual training nonsense before it's even deemed necessary.....enough with the range promoting...omo.

[ALAN553 27]

25 minutes ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

"...Legislators must really think we are stupid..."

Depending on who you include in your collective pronoun "we", I think NJ legislators may have damned good evidence of the validity of that premise. After all, who voted those asswit dimholes into office?

Point well taken

[Tunaman 549]

20 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

No...your in the wrong state of mind....no mandatory training what so ever..more than half the country, 27 states say so..omo.

and you keep repeating the same re-qual training nonsense before it's even deemed necessary.....enough with the range promoting...omo.

its not range promoting.  It is called the LAW.  And you will have to abide by the law by Oct 1 or you risk being revoked.  Until it is overturned it is the law.  My qualification is already good,  but when I get offered a free one for next year I am going to take it.  Same as you will be taking it when you renew.

[10X 3,298]

1 hour ago, GrumpyOldRetiree said:

The only problem I have is that I have 2 bad knees and I can't kneel down and get up under my own steam and I can't find out if GFH will (or can) waive the kneeling requirement. 

I can’t help with the getting up part, but a pair of volleyball knee pads worn under your pants make a world of difference when dropping down to kneeling on a concrete range floor. 
 

I hope they accommodate you in some fashion.  

[xXxplosive 824]

edit.....

26 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

its not range promoting.  It is called the LAW.  And you will have to abide by the law by Oct 1 or you risk being revoked.  Until it is overturned it is the law.  My qualification is already good,  but when I get offered a free one for next year I am going to take it.  Same as you will be taking it when you renew.

you sound like you like this stuff....Anthony the Great will make his $$$ regardless.....no worries.......omo.

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

1 hour ago, CMJeepster said:

[email protected]

njccw - Best Gun Range NYC and NJ Area | Gun Range Near Me (gunforhire.com)

 

Yea...I've never gotten a response from that info email address and I've tried on several different occasions on several different topics (including the subject of this post over a week ago). I'll have to try emailing Tony Urena directly. IIRC, I did get a response from him once going back awhile.

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

edit.....

you sound like you like this stuff....Anthony the Great will make his $$$ regardless.....no worries.......omo.

Speaking only for myself, I can't begrudge anyone from making a buck off the training. He is running a for profit business after all. Additionally, I think he is being more then fair in the way GFH is handling this re-qualification curve ball. When GFH originally started advertising the civilian qualification test they did prominently warn that the  standards were in flux and the course they were offering then MAY NOT meet the final requirements. As many others did, I opted to take that risk so I might be able to exercise my 2A rights in NJ before I die. I think he really stepped up to the plate by offering a free re-qual without having to take the holster draw class and prerequisite class for the holster draw.

Edited August 7, 2023 by GrumpyOldRetiree
forgot to mention an important feature of the re-qual course

[xXxplosive 824]

the entire program stinks, IMO and I have no trouble calling out what I believe to be the monetary rape of the NJ gun community when they knew there was no standard for an "Unconstitutional" testing requirement yet....no he's not the only one but the Prominent one...after all he is the P.T. Barnum of the shooting community here in NJ...( a sucker born every minute).......omo.

[TuscanRaider 8]

2 hours ago, Tunaman said:

its not range promoting.  It is called the LAW.  And you will have to abide by the law by Oct 1 or you risk being revoked.  Until it is overturned it is the law.  My qualification is already good,  but when I get offered a free one for next year I am going to take it.  Same as you will be taking it when you renew.

I took my training Oct 21 last year. Got my permit in mid Jan…..it already qualifies so I don’t need to go again. Interestingly enough you can renew 4 months early, and if you’ve qualified in the past two years you don’t need to go again.  So if I time it right my qualifications from last year will STILL be good for my renewal next year :)

[124gr9mm 859]

I hate all the fighting.

A lot of it comes down to the need "to be right".  Person X went a particular route so they want to feel like they did it the 'best' way, so they'll attack any other decision.

In my opinion most of the noise around this is fear-mongering.  The lawyers are dong it as ammunition for their case(s) before Bumb, and the gun shops are using it as an incentive to get people to take training.

I don't hold it against either of those parties. 

For those crapping on GFH I'd suggest you simply go somewhere else.  Yes, they charge money, but they seem to offer the most support, classes, and everything else needed for people who want to get a CCW (or just shoot), so they will continue to be a popular option.  The fact that members there get a discount on classes (and FREE re-qual classes) indicates that they value their customer base.  I don't shoot at public ranges very often, but when I do GFH is typically my first choice.

For various reasons I went to a different range for my qualification.  The qual was done by a retired State Trooper and the sheet I received indicates that I passed with minimum score of 80%, and that I received use of force instruction.  If there is no change to the legislation and I need to provide something to my local PD by October 1, I'll give them a copy of the original qual sheet.  It meets the requirements.

The rest of the infighting doesn't help anything.

 

[124gr9mm 859]

17 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

the entire program stinks, IMO and I have no trouble calling out what I believe the monetary rape of the NJ gun community when they knew there was no standard for an "Unconstitutional" testing requirement yet....no he's not the only one but the Prominent one...after all he is the P.T. Barnum of the shooting community here in NJ...( a sucker born every minute).......omo.

I agree with your point that the program stinks, and I agree that the 'qualification' process shouldn't be there.

Beyond that I disagree with your perspective.

Almost all of your posts on this site are angry/negative.  You have a rigid stance that any laws surrounding the 2A should not be there and anyone who abides by them is some kind of grifter or someone who supports the tyrants in Trenton.

If we live by the rule of law then those who want to exercise their 2A rights in NJ have to follow the law.  It's that simple.  Those who don't risk arrest, prison, fines, loos of rights, etc, etc.  GFH, Reloaderz, RTSP, Shooters, and the other ranges out there who are offering quals/classes are facilitating the processes required for people to exercise their rights.  They charge fees for this (and give discounts to their members) because that's what businesses do. 

They are also monetarily supporting the lawyers/lawsuits that are fighting to get the laws CHANGED.  This could potentially eliminate the need foe the qual and other classes being held now.  If they were really grifters and working against the 2A community wouldn't they be doing everything possible to support Murphy and his legislation?

Yes, there are states that are Constitutional Carry, and it would be great if NJ went there, but until just over a year ago there was NO carry in NJ.  Progress is being made.

Screaming about how oppressive the situation is right now when there was almost nothing a year ago is senseless.

Progress is being made.

Be part of the solution. 

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

12 hours ago, 10X said:

I can’t help with the getting up part, but a pair of volleyball knee pads worn under your pants make a world of difference when dropping down to kneeling on a concrete range floor. 
 

I hope they accommodate you in some fashion.  

Thanks for your suggestion. Its not so much that I have a problem with the hard floor, it more relates to the fact that I can't bent my knees. So anytime I have to get on the floor (like cleaning out an under-the-sink trap) I go through a 10 minute ritual of finding a support to lower myself down and then pulling myself back up again.  

[xXxplosive 824]

11 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

I agree with your point that the program stinks, and I agree that the 'qualification' process shouldn't be there.

Beyond that I disagree with your perspective.

Almost all of your posts on this site are angry/negative.  You have a rigid stance that any laws surrounding the 2A should not be there and anyone who abides by them is some kind of grifter or someone who supports the tyrants in Trenton.

If we live by the rule of law then those who want to exercise their 2A rights in NJ have to follow the law.  It's that simple.  Those who don't risk arrest, prison, fines, loos of rights, etc, etc.  GFH, Reloaderz, RTSP, Shooters, and the other ranges out there who are offering quals/classes are facilitating the processes required for people to exercise their rights.  They charge fees for this (and give discounts to their members) because that's what businesses do. 

They are also monetarily supporting the lawyers/lawsuits that are fighting to get the laws CHANGED.  This could potentially eliminate the need foe the qual and other classes being held now.  If they were really grifters and working against the 2A community wouldn't they be doing everything possible to support Murphy and his legislation?

Yes, there are states that are Constitutional Carry, and it would be great if NJ went there, but until just over a year ago there was NO carry in NJ.  Progress is being made.

Screaming about how oppressive the situation is right now when there was almost nothing a year ago is senseless.

Progress is being made.

Be part of the solution. 

Well written.....but if it weren't for Thomas, all this money donated here hasn't made a dent in all my years.....I know reality sucks sometimes but ya need to face it to better the situation...NJ is and has been in  a monetary viscous circle when it comes to 2A...Nah, I'm not a part of that keep throwin' money at it until it sticks...I understand we fund them.....that's enough for me untill something changes...Bleeding the shooting community with these outrageous range costs are not for me either...took the course, shot the COF and had my permit 8 days after prints....yeah, I paid a buck twenty for the course to exercise my Constitutional Right... it didn't agree with me either.....omo.

[siderman 1,138]

54 minutes ago, GrumpyOldRetiree said:

Thanks for your suggestion. Its not so much that I have a problem with the hard floor, it more relates to the fact that I can't bent my knees. So anytime I have to get on the floor (like cleaning out an under-the-sink trap) I go through a 10 minute ritual of finding a support to lower myself down and then pulling myself back up again.  

You're not alone. This ninja course of fire really pisses me off and I'm 3 yrs removed from NJ! I've had 3 major knee surgerys and no way would/could I bend the knee for that state. Keep an eye open on ANJRPC's legal counter to this bs maybe a window will open that stays that cof. Anyway good luck. Walk, don't run, NJ sucks.

[124gr9mm 859]

24 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

Well written.....but if it weren't for Thomas, all this money donated here hasn't made a dent in all my years.....I know reality sucks sometimes but ya need to face it to better the situation...NJ is and has been in  a monetary viscous circle when it comes to 2A...Nah, I'm not a part of that keep throwin' money at it until it sticks...I understand we fund them.....that's enough for me untill something changes...Bleeding the shooting community with these outrageous range costs are not for me either...took the course, shot the COF and had my permit 8 days after prints....yeah, I paid a buck twenty for the course to exercise my Constitutional Right... it didn't agree with me either.....omo.

I hear you, and largely agree with you on the viscous cycle we've seen in NJ with a Constitutional right.

Agree to disagree on the motivations of the ranges.

Also agree that Thomas did more with the stroke of a pen than any of the NRA lawyers have been able to accomplish.  That said, had those lawyers not been there and ready to keep fighting the the fight (that they had been badly losing for many years) Murphy would have simply written legislation and imposed 'rules' that would have nullified the SC decision.

The lawyers haven't 'won' anything yet, but with the decisions we've seen from Bumb it appears that they're positioned to have a lot of success now.

We're all on the same team.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

12 hours ago, TuscanRaider said:

I took my training Oct 21 last year. Got my permit in mid Jan…..it already qualifies so I don’t need to go again. Interestingly enough you can renew 4 months early, and if you’ve qualified in the past two years you don’t need to go again.  So if I time it right my qualifications from last year will STILL be good for my renewal next year

Renew by paper, or are they actually getting this into the electronic system? Because if it's on paper, we will again be at the mercy of the Authoritae regarding processing delays.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

12 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

I hate all the fighting.

A lot of it comes down to the need "to be right".  Person X went a particular route so they want to feel like they did it the 'best' way, so they'll attack any other decision.

In my opinion most of the noise around this is fear-mongering.  The lawyers are dong it as ammunition for their case(s) before Bumb, and the gun shops are using it as an incentive to get people to take training.

I don't hold it against either of those parties. 

For those crapping on GFH I'd suggest you simply go somewhere else.  Yes, they charge money, but they seem to offer the most support, classes, and everything else needed for people who want to get a CCW (or just shoot), so they will continue to be a popular option.  The fact that members there get a discount on classes (and FREE re-qual classes) indicates that they value their customer base.  I don't shoot at public ranges very often, but when I do GFH is typically my first choice.

For various reasons I went to a different range for my qualification.  The qual was done by a retired State Trooper and the sheet I received indicates that I passed with minimum score of 80%, and that I received use of force instruction.  If there is no change to the legislation and I need to provide something to my local PD by October 1, I'll give them a copy of the original qual sheet.  It meets the requirements.

The rest of the infighting doesn't help anything.

 

Generally agree with your points, with one significant caveat. The same range owners/operators who are making a good buck by satisfying whatever egregious training regime NJ comes up with also typically like to portray themselves as uncompromising 2A advocates. Sorry, but there is an inherent conflict there - they cannot be both simultaneously.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

5 hours ago, GrumpyOldRetiree said:

Thanks for your suggestion. Its not so much that I have a problem with the hard floor, it more relates to the fact that I can't bent my knees. So anytime I have to get on the floor (like cleaning out an under-the-sink trap) I go through a 10 minute ritual of finding a support to lower myself down and then pulling myself back up again.  

I'm in the same boat as you re knees. The first instructor I went to for qualification (Fred Hauber at Full Metal Jacket: if you take a course from him/them and get screwed over somehow, you can't say I didn't warn you) was following HQC2, which requires timed shooting from a kneeling position/under a barrier at 15 yards. To make matters far worse, the official NJ qualification for retired LEOs had an exception for shooters of 5-shot revolvers (I was using a Ruger SP101 in .357), without which  reloading makes the sequence pretty much impossible to complete in the alloted time, even for someone with healthy kness. In a subsequent conversation about that segment, Hauber told me that he refused to allow that exception because NJ had informed him that it was no longer offered in the "official" HQC2. In the same phone conversation, he happily informed me that FMJ offered a wide selection of semi-auto handguns for sale, with which I should easily be able to complete that segment No possibility that he/they were using (the purported) NJ requirements for a little profiteering there, eh? A few days later, after I made arrangements to take a different qualification course with Dave Cope at Shooters, Hauber left me a VM telling me that he "discovered" that the exception was still valid, and that I should return to FMJ to complete my qualification. I ignored his VM. I left about $300 on the table at FMJ in so doing, but I wanted (and want) nothing further to do with them.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

16 hours ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

"...Legislators must really think we are stupid..."

Depending on who you include in your collective pronoun "we", I think NJ legislators may have damned good evidence of the validity of that premise. After all, who voted those asswit dimholes into office?

who said that they were voted in? feels more like they were ""voted"" in.......

[124gr9mm 859]

48 minutes ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

The same range owners/operators who are making a good buck by satisfying whatever egregious training regime NJ comes up with also typically like to portray themselves as uncompromising 2A advocates. Sorry, but there is an inherent conflict there - they cannot be both simultaneously.

I understand the position, but I think the range owners are doing their best to do both.

For those who want to be part of the process and force NJ to recognize carry permits, there needs to be a way to meet the requirements.  The ranges afford that opportunity for those who choose to do so.

Yes, they are encouraging as many people as possible to get their carry license, but i think that's a good thing.  The more people who do it now, the more Nj will be forced to recon with the fact that it's here to stay.

People can ABSOLUTELY wait a bit until the smoke clears, lawsuits are completed, and fees/requirements go down.  Might take another year or so, but nobody is compelled to do it early.

 

[dilbert1967 146]

5 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

who said that they were voted in? feels more like they were ""voted"" in.......

That's right!  The people in the cemetery's in Trenton, Camden, Newark, and Atlantic City have a say in this too! 

[mustang69 505]

On 8/7/2023 at 3:52 PM, almach5 said:

We are in the WRONG state.  For example - this is the requirements for North Carolina.  Seems more than reasonable:

"In order to qualify to carry a hand gun concealed in North Carolina, you must hit a silhouette target from distances of 3, 5, and 7 yards (ten rounds each)." 

 

No firing from the knees, no 25 yards, no weak hand, nothing.  What am I missing here???

I'll support mandatory firearms training when there is a literacy requirement to vote.  Don't misunderstand, I think training is important.  I just don't think it should be required.  The requirements leave too much room for gov't interference in the right itself.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

29 minutes ago, mustang69 said:

I'll support mandatory firearms training when there is a literacy requirement to vote.  Don't misunderstand, I think training is important.  I just don't think it should be required.  The requirements leave too much room for gov't interference in the right itself.

If there was a literacy requirement to vote, we would not be in the mess we are in today!

[voyager9 3,434]

56 minutes ago, mustang69 said:

I'll support mandatory firearms training when there is a literacy requirement to vote.

I would settle for a literacy test to get voted in.   

[YankeeSC 1,204]

17 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

If there was a literacy civics requirement to vote, we would not be in the mess we are in today!

FIFY

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

19 hours ago, mustang69 said:

I'll support mandatory firearms training when there is a literacy requirement to vote.  Don't misunderstand, I think training is important.  I just don't think it should be required.  The requirements leave too much room for gov't interference in the right itself.

There is no training, licensing, or registration requirementfor exercising the right articulated in the amendment just before the Second... Why should RTKBA be any more fettered?

***New Jersey, where politicians and bureaucrats have elevated incompetence to an art form***

[Displaced Texan 11,750]

1 hour ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

New Jersey, where politicians and bureaucrats have elevated incompetence to an art form

Art form???? It’s an absolute REQUIREMENT!!! 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

On 8/8/2023 at 7:46 AM, Grima Squeakersen said:

Generally agree with your points, with one significant caveat. The same range owners/operators who are making a good buck by satisfying whatever egregious training regime NJ comes up with also typically like to portray themselves as uncompromising 2A advocates. Sorry, but there is an inherent conflict there - they cannot be both simultaneously.

So you believe all the NJ gun advocates should stop qualifying people to carry firearms?